Thinking about buying a piece.

[Abdullah the Butcher]

Anyone know much about the Super Redhawk Alaskans? I think they are kind of badass and kind of wanted one. The guy at Scheel's told me it would be about an eight month wait to get one.

 

[The Dude]

BrayWyatt, you after the .44 or .454?

[MidnightRider]

 

 

 

 

If you were to choose a AR I would tell you to look at some specialty rounds for it from Hornady. The big complaint with AR rifle rounds is that, "They'll go on forever and wah wah wah..........." No they won't and there are speciality rounds out there now that expend all their energy into the target they hit. They won't go through the target and keep going. I have some sweet material on the ballistics of some of these new rounds. One example was a SWAT team making entry into a house, dude has a gun, SWAT guy puts one well placed round into the head of bad guy. The round never left the guys head, it stayed in there and expended all of its energy once it made contact. From a ballistic standpoint that's awesome..................

 

do you know if the specialty rounds are 9mm or 5.56 standard round for the AR? I'd love to have an AR myself and if I did it'd want the 5.56 as thats what i'm use to with being in the army. But if those rounds are 9mm only. That might make that version a little more interesting.

 

As far as I know they come in 5.56 and 7.62 platform. The link below will give you all the info on their Hornady TAP line and the rifle rounds I'm talking about are the 40 grain Hornady TAP urban rounds. On page 52 of this link it shows you the x-rays of the bad guy who took one to the head from a 5.56 round and how that round stayed in his head and didn't go any further. Now this is a law enforcement and military line, but I'm sure just like anything they either offer a civilian version or it's possible you could get your hands on some, but I don't know that for sure. I kinda want some of our patrol officers to go to the urban rounds because of how they expand their energy so fast, which you can see in the ballistic testing in that link, so there is really no chance of a through and through and it hitting something else. There's always a chance of that, but it would be a lot smaller than with a 55 grain 5.56 federal round that is your "normal" 5.56 round as far as ballistics go. Sorry to nerd out on the ballistic stuff, but for some reason I find that really interesting. I'd rather know more about ballistics than all the different weapons out there. So for Hornady to come out with a round like this is impressive IMO. I took part in ballistic testing here in Iowa with them at our law enforcement academy. Really impressive stuff, but I couldn't get our Chief to agree to buy the stuff because it was a tad bit more expensive than what we currently use. The stuff we currently use is great stuff, but Hornady's line retained its weight better during testing which is huge.

 

http://www.hornadyle.com/assets/site/files/hornady_tap_report.pdf

 

Thank you for the info BIGREDIOWAN, I look forward to reading the report. I missed this release, completely. If you don't mind, I have a couple of questions; when you were testing the ammo, did you have any FTF due to the lighter weight of the projectile? Did you have to mod your mags in any way i.e. stiffer springs? I assume due to the lighter weight of the projectile that it would shed energy more quickly than a 55 gr round; what was the longest range at which you were you still shooting consistent 3 inch groups? Thanks, again.

 

I did not have any FTF that I can remember with my rifle. I did not mod my mags, but then again I don't load to 30, I was trained 28 is the max you load due to less of a chance of a double-feed that way. The AR platform is already finicky from time to time so there's no reason to make it worse right? We were only firing at close range with this particular round, 25 yards or less into ballistic gelatin so we could see that even in CQB the projectile doesn't penetrate any further. The science and ballistics are there whether it's 15 feet or 300 meters. The testing I took part in basically took on the FBI ballistic testing that all law enforcement agencies go by when selecting their rounds. There's no way for a round to perform "better" or "above" those standards. They either meet them or they don't. Now the interesting part was how much weight their rounds kept after each stage of the test. It was better than the current "gold" standard of rounds that we carry on-duty which obviously effects the wound cavity which is only as important as shot placement.

 

Thank you very much for the info. Fascinating stuff, indeed.

[MidnightRider]

Anyone know much about the Super Redhawk Alaskans? I think they are kind of badass and kind of wanted one. The guy at Scheel's told me it would be about an eight month wait to get one.

 

I have not fired one yet (not sure I'd want to, that's a big bastard) but did find a very informative article on it here: http://www.shootingtimes.com/2011/01/03/handgun_reviews_rgrrh/ The cool thing about the one in .454 is that it will also accept .45 ACP so your range time will be less expensive. Let us know if you decide to get this, that looks like a very cool (and potentially painful to whomever pulls the trigger) gun.

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

 

 

If you were to choose a AR I would tell you to look at some specialty rounds for it from Hornady. The big complaint with AR rifle rounds is that, "They'll go on forever and wah wah wah..........." No they won't and there are speciality rounds out there now that expend all their energy into the target they hit. They won't go through the target and keep going. I have some sweet material on the ballistics of some of these new rounds. One example was a SWAT team making entry into a house, dude has a gun, SWAT guy puts one well placed round into the head of bad guy. The round never left the guys head, it stayed in there and expended all of its energy once it made contact. From a ballistic standpoint that's awesome..................

 

do you know if the specialty rounds are 9mm or 5.56 standard round for the AR? I'd love to have an AR myself and if I did it'd want the 5.56 as thats what i'm use to with being in the army. But if those rounds are 9mm only. That might make that version a little more interesting.

 

As far as I know they come in 5.56 and 7.62 platform. The link below will give you all the info on their Hornady TAP line and the rifle rounds I'm talking about are the 40 grain Hornady TAP urban rounds. On page 52 of this link it shows you the x-rays of the bad guy who took one to the head from a 5.56 round and how that round stayed in his head and didn't go any further. Now this is a law enforcement and military line, but I'm sure just like anything they either offer a civilian version or it's possible you could get your hands on some, but I don't know that for sure. I kinda want some of our patrol officers to go to the urban rounds because of how they expand their energy so fast, which you can see in the ballistic testing in that link, so there is really no chance of a through and through and it hitting something else. There's always a chance of that, but it would be a lot smaller than with a 55 grain 5.56 federal round that is your "normal" 5.56 round as far as ballistics go. Sorry to nerd out on the ballistic stuff, but for some reason I find that really interesting. I'd rather know more about ballistics than all the different weapons out there. So for Hornady to come out with a round like this is impressive IMO. I took part in ballistic testing here in Iowa with them at our law enforcement academy. Really impressive stuff, but I couldn't get our Chief to agree to buy the stuff because it was a tad bit more expensive than what we currently use. The stuff we currently use is great stuff, but Hornady's line retained its weight better during testing which is huge.

 

http://www.hornadyle.com/assets/site/files/hornady_tap_report.pdf

 

Thank you for the info BIGREDIOWAN, I look forward to reading the report. I missed this release, completely. If you don't mind, I have a couple of questions; when you were testing the ammo, did you have any FTF due to the lighter weight of the projectile? Did you have to mod your mags in any way i.e. stiffer springs? I assume due to the lighter weight of the projectile that it would shed energy more quickly than a 55 gr round; what was the longest range at which you were you still shooting consistent 3 inch groups? Thanks, again.

 

I did not have any FTF that I can remember with my rifle. I did not mod my mags, but then again I don't load to 30, I was trained 28 is the max you load due to less of a chance of a double-feed that way. The AR platform is already finicky from time to time so there's no reason to make it worse right? We were only firing at close range with this particular round, 25 yards or less into ballistic gelatin so we could see that even in CQB the projectile doesn't penetrate any further. The science and ballistics are there whether it's 15 feet or 300 meters. The testing I took part in basically took on the FBI ballistic testing that all law enforcement agencies go by when selecting their rounds. There's no way for a round to perform "better" or "above" those standards. They either meet them or they don't. Now the interesting part was how much weight their rounds kept after each stage of the test. It was better than the current "gold" standard of rounds that we carry on-duty which obviously effects the wound cavity which is only as important as shot placement.

 

So, my question is. Let's say your in a house, some jack ass has a gun pointed at your partner, the jack ass's wife and kids are behind him. You have a clean shot to take him out. Do you trust that this round isn't going to go through him and hit his wife or kids?

[Abdullah the Butcher]

Probably the .454 since it can fire .45 acp also.

[BIGREDIOWAN]

Simple answer: Yes, I do based on what I've seen from those rounds in testing. Again anything's possible, testing is quite different than real world application. The good thing about these rounds is if you fire them in your house at an intruder and miss it doesn't appear those rounds will go through walls. Unless of course those walls don't have any insulation then I would "guess" it's possible for them to go through both sides. Don't know that for sure though.......

 

Having said that I'm also comfortable taking a real tight shot if it presents itself based on my skill level. Not talking myself up by any means, some guys just aren't comfortable enough to do that. Being a firearms instructor, rifle instructor, and former entry operator has given me those skills thankfully.

[BigRedBuster]

 

Having said that I'm also comfortable taking a real tight shot if it presents itself based on my skill level. Not talking myself up by any means, some guys just aren't comfortable enough to do that. Being a firearms instructor, rifle instructor, and former entry operator has given me those skills thankfully.

 

Well, that is what training is supposed to do. If I had an intruder in my house, my mind would be going a gazzilion miles an hour, my heart rate would be about 250 and I would be hyperventilating. So, in other words, I have no clue where my bullet would end up.

If you are trained for that, the entire scene slows down and your mind works better. At least that's the way it's supposed to be.

[carlfense]

Is this your first handgun? If so, buy a .22lr like a Buckmark or a Ruger Mk. III and run a few thousand rounds through it before stepping up to something bigger. There's no replacement for trigger time.

 

Second, so long as you're not going to do concealed carry I'd recommend something like a .357 or .44 revolver. They'll never fail you and there is less of a learning curve in familiarizing yourself with your specific gun.

 

If you're looking for a semi-auto it's hard to go wrong with a Glock (as mentioned) or any of the various striker fired 9mms, .40s, .45s, etc. Relatively simple and reliable.

 

Finally, just to add another layer, the coolest handgun is still easily the 1911. They aren't particularly practical or cheap . . . but there is still something about a well machined chunk of steel with the sort of pedigree that the old 1911 has.

[BIGREDIOWAN]

 

 

Having said that I'm also comfortable taking a real tight shot if it presents itself based on my skill level. Not talking myself up by any means, some guys just aren't comfortable enough to do that. Being a firearms instructor, rifle instructor, and former entry operator has given me those skills thankfully.

 

Well, that is what training is supposed to do. If I had an intruder in my house, my mind would be going a gazzilion miles an hour, my heart rate would be about 250 and I would be hyperventilating. So, in other words, I have no clue where my bullet would end up.

If you are trained for that, the entire scene slows down and your mind works better. At least that's the way it's supposed to be.

 

What you're saying is completely true about the heart rate and such, that does come into play in these situations. There are studies out there that trained police officers that shoot in the high 90% range regress down to 30 to 40% range due to heart rate being raised and this affecting their ability to shoot accurately. Tunnel vision, auditory exclusion, heart rate, adrenaline, etc is hard to train to deal with. I've been shot at, it frigging sucks big time and I thought everything they told you in the academy was BS until you have rounds flying past your head. You become a believer real quick!

 

I'm sure people are curious so here's the situation I was involved in, he shot at us more than twice: http://s2.excoboard.com/exco/archive.php?ac=t&forumid=124593&date=02-06-2009&t=1907149-1

[The Dude]

Ruger Mk. III

Might be my favorite gun.

[MidnightRider]

Finally, just to add another layer, the coolest handgun is still easily the 1911. They aren't particularly practical or cheap . . . but there is still something about a well machined chunk of steel with the sort of pedigree that the old 1911 has.

 

Truth.

[HUSKER FREAK]

I would really like to get a Mark III and someday when I can swing it would love to get a 1911 and not a knock off I want the real deal.

 

For an affordable and reliable gun I really like the Ruger SR40.

[BIGREDIOWAN]

Add a mounted light to this and sweet god do you have a sweet gun!

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

 

Having said that I'm also comfortable taking a real tight shot if it presents itself based on my skill level. Not talking myself up by any means, some guys just aren't comfortable enough to do that. Being a firearms instructor, rifle instructor, and former entry operator has given me those skills thankfully.

 

Well, that is what training is supposed to do. If I had an intruder in my house, my mind would be going a gazzilion miles an hour, my heart rate would be about 250 and I would be hyperventilating. So, in other words, I have no clue where my bullet would end up.

If you are trained for that, the entire scene slows down and your mind works better. At least that's the way it's supposed to be.

 

What you're saying is completely true about the heart rate and such, that does come into play in these situations. There are studies out there that trained police officers that shoot in the high 90% range regress down to 30 to 40% range due to heart rate being raised and this affecting their ability to shoot accurately. Tunnel vision, auditory exclusion, heart rate, adrenaline, etc is hard to train to deal with. I've been shot at, it frigging sucks big time and I thought everything they told you in the academy was BS until you have rounds flying past your head. You become a believer real quick!

 

I'm sure people are curious so here's the situation I was involved in, he shot at us more than twice: http://s2.excoboard.com/exco/archive.php?ac=t&forumid=124593&date=02-06-2009&t=1907149-1

 

 

 

Ahhh...such a great neighborhood.