What's the biggest reason for Blacks not advancing

[BIGREDIOWAN]

I stopped reading after the KKK comment........

[BIGREDIOWAN]

 

Wilson pursued after Brown so you're confused there or heard wrong. Wilson gave commands for Brown to stop while pursuing him and Brown stopped, turned around, and charged Wilson. This is when Wilson fired additional rounds, there was a pause, Brown continued to charge and Wilson fired the final shots. 153 feet, 51 yards, is a long way to have a successful shot with a pistol during a critical incident if not impossible. I think the final encounter happened within 20 or 30 feet?

I don't really know. If it's true that it was 20-30 feet that would certainly alter my opinion.

 

And hell, despite what the fakes at the range will tell you, 51 yards is long range with a pistol even if you're calm.

 

As a firearms instructor who feels he's pretty proficient with his weapon, I'm not taking a 51 yard shot with my pistol, we don't even train for that. Zero confidence there and I can't tell you I'm going to hit the target for sure. In a critical incident..............no chance of hitting the target unless Jesus is riding that bullet to its intended destination. Most police shootings occur 10 feet and in...........

[Landlord]

I stopped reading after the KKK comment........

 

 

 

Well you shouldn't have, because first of all what I said is true (not that he is a member of the KKK, but that there are reports of evidence existing that supports that idea)

 

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ferguson-police-mole-helping-anonymous-identify-kkk-link-darren-wilson-1476508

 

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/anonymous-ferguson-killer-cop-darren-wilson-linked-kkk-ghoul-squad-1475953

 

 

And secondly because that was a side note not at all related to the overall point, and there is compelling stuff after that.

[carlfense]

As a firearms instructor who feels he's pretty proficient with his weapon, I'm not taking a 51 yard shot with my pistol, we don't even train for that. Zero confidence there and I can't tell you I'm going to hit the target for sure. In a critical incident..............no chance of hitting the target unless Jesus is riding that bullet to its intended destination. Most police shootings occur 10 feet and in...........

Yep.

[BIGREDIOWAN]

 

Wilson pursued after Brown so you're confused there or heard wrong. Wilson gave commands for Brown to stop while pursuing him and Brown stopped, turned around, and charged Wilson. This is when Wilson fired additional rounds, there was a pause, Brown continued to charge and Wilson fired the final shots. 153 feet, 51 yards, is a long way to have a successful shot with a pistol during a critical incident if not impossible. I think the final encounter happened within 20 or 30 feet?

I don't really know. If it's true that it was 20-30 feet that would certainly alter my opinion. (Should be able to mostly recreate where Wilson was firing from by looking at the distribution of the shell casings.)

 

And hell, despite what the fakes at the range will tell you, 51 yards is long range with a pistol even if you're calm.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/in-darren-wilsons-words-grand-jury-testimony-gives-first-look-at-officers-fear-before-michael-brown-shooting-132740762.html

 

This is Wilson's account to what happened. Final shot was 8 to 10 feet away from Wilson which was the shot to the head.

[BIGREDIOWAN]

 

I stopped reading after the KKK comment........

 

 

 

Well you shouldn't have, because first of all what I said is true (not that he is a member of the KKK, but that there are reports of evidence existing that supports that idea)

 

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ferguson-police-mole-helping-anonymous-identify-kkk-link-darren-wilson-1476508

 

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/anonymous-ferguson-killer-cop-darren-wilson-linked-kkk-ghoul-squad-1475953

 

 

And secondly because that was a side note not at all related to the overall point, and there is compelling stuff after that.

 

Stats can say whatever you want them to say, we know this, I'm not refuting that there may be some racial bias somewhere in the country. I'm not racially biased, if you break the law, I'm biased against you, doesn't matter if your black, white, asian, latino, etc. Those numbers can be skewed based on several different factors, but the one that sticks out to me, and I'm really generalizing my response. The reason officers deal with blacks more than whites, the reason more blacks are arrested than whites, the reason those numbers look skewed may be because the crime rate is higher in those areas? That's obviously going to show that officers are arresting more blacks and dealing with more blacks. Just saying and I can't read all of that right now because my eyes are crossing at this point from all the information. That's quite the post........

[Landlord]

Stats can say whatever you want them to say, we know this, I'm not refuting that there may be some racial bias somewhere in the country. I'm not racially biased, if you break the law, I'm biased against you, doesn't matter if your black, white, asian, latino, etc. Those numbers can be skewed based on several different factors, but the one that sticks out to me, and I'm really generalizing my response. The reason officers deal with blacks more than whites, the reason more blacks are arrested than whites, the reason those numbers look skewed may be because the crime rate is higher in those areas? That's obviously going to show that officers are arresting more blacks and dealing with more blacks. Just saying and I can't read all of that right now because my eyes are crossing at this point from all the information. That's quite the post........

 

 

 

 

Higher crime rate is definitely one factor. It is far from the only factor, which I am sure you would agree.

 

So what causes the higher crime? The two big picture answers are either 1. that you think black people are fundamentally and inherently more violent and dangerous than white people, which I don't think you think, nor should you, because we are all human beings, or, 2. the social environment of our country has led to a different reality for this group of people, which circles back around to the entire reason that people are upset, which is that the systems of government in our country were founded in a way that was advantageous towards whites at the expense of the liberties of minorities, and they continue to be unfairly oppressive.

 

White people founded this country by stealing it through genocide, building it through the economy of slavery, and securing it through war.

 

First we decided that Africans weren't human.

 

Then we decided that they were 3/5 human.

 

Now, they feel, because of this incident but also because of countless more, that even though we say they are human, we don't think they deserve to live with the same treatment and opportunity.

[Landlord]

Just another example of what this case represents for too many black people in our country:

 

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/indiana-couple-sues-police-excess-force-video-incident-article-1.1966474

 

 

 

The argument can be made that the officers were completely within their legal rights throughout this whole thing, but the thing is that they get to dictate the circumstances. They get the power of telling the people to get out of the car, and the people have to choose to comply and 'be lawful' even though doing so makes them fear for their life.

 

Basically, an officer fears for his life and he is allowed to use lethal force. A civilian fears for his life at the hands of an officer and if he tries to protect himself by calmly remaining inside a vehicle, he'll get cut by flying glass and tazed.

 

I've been pulled over and reached my hands places that the cop couldn't see plenty of times in my life going for an id or registration. I've never felt like I needed to be afraid of something like this, and I've never had an officer become alarmed at me doing so.

[Creighton Duke]

This is interesting

 

http://www.policeone.com/use-of-force/articles/7653755-Cops-hesitate-more-err-less-when-shooting-black-suspects-study-finds/

 

The last bit is very interesting

 

 

 

• Reaction time. Her findings reveal that officers took “significantly longer” before they shot black suspects than white suspects. Civilians and soldiers in the study also took longer to shoot blacks, but the hesitation by officers was roughly twice as long as that of the civilians. The delay before shooting was particularly noticeable in the most complex scenarios.

In contrast, there was “no significant difference in reaction time between shooting Hispanic suspects and White suspects,” James reports. “Our primary finding that participants were more hesitant to shoot Black suspects than White or Hispanic suspects is in direct contrast to prior experimental findings that participants are significantly quicker to shoot Black suspects,” she writes.

• Decision errors. Where officers made errors in James’s study, they were “less likely to shoot unarmed Black suspects than unarmed White suspects,” she writes. Indeed, “we calculated that participants were 25 times less likely to shoot unarmed Black suspects than they were to shoot unarmed White suspects.” Again, this was a significantly greater multiple than was recorded for other groups in the study.
Unarmed suspects were most likely to be shot in journeyman scenarios (the most difficult), and there was “no significant difference between the likelihood of shooting unarmed Hispanic suspects and unarmed White suspects,” the researchers found.

Moreover, the officers did not fail to shoot armed white suspects any more frequently than they failed to shoot threatening suspects who were black or Hispanic. “These findings are also in direct contrast to [earlier researchers] who found that participants were more likely to shoot unarmed Black suspects and fail to shoot armed White suspects,” James noted.

These results revealed that racial bias did exist in the officers’ reactions to the scenarios, James writes — ”but in the opposite direction that would be expected from prior experimental studies.” Her tests “showed significant evidence of bias favoring Black suspects, rather than discriminating against them.”

A “potential explanation,” she speculates, may be a “behavioral ‘counter-bias’ “ or “administrative effect”; that is, an extra caution by officers against impulsive reactions to black suspects because of “real-world concern over discipline, liability, or public disapproval.”

[Landlord]

That is interesting. I wonder what the context of the study was - like where they were from, and if they had any kind of clue or guess that it was a study of racial bias.

[Creighton Duke]

Important questions. The same type of questions that need to be asked of EVERY study proclaiming the opposite.

 

You seem to have A LOT of free time; get to work.

[tschu]

A decade of research shows otherwise

 

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/spc3.12099/abstract

 

 

edit: gonna add this whole article to http://www.vox.com/2014/8/28/6051971/police-implicit-bias-michael-brown-ferguson-missouri

 

The biggest note from study: With training, the bias can be overcome. That's why effective training is so important.

[tschu]

I think that's something I've posted repeatedly. There are numerous studies that show that when we're made aware of our internal biases, we can directly control them. Which is pretty fantastic. But obviously that only comes after recognizing that we're all biased in all sorts of ways, rather than putting the fingers in the ears and pretending implicit racism isn't a thing.

[walksalone]

Does Al Sharpton only show up during these kinds of events, or is it that he's active in the community but the press doesn't put him on TV until this kind of thing happens? He seems to exist solely to appear beside distraught families in press conferences.

 

Al Sharpton, Greatest Ambulance chaser of all time...

[walksalone]

I'm glad everyone thats added to this is a legal expert and a ballistics expert... (BRI and Carl being about two of the only people on here who I would take their opinions seriously)

 

If he shot him from 51 yards away with his pistol, what is he, Wild Bill f*cking Hickock?