Junior Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Sure there are bad cops. There are bad corks in a bottle of wine. But I've never run across either, in my personal experience. Do you think if you had a different skin color, that your personal experience would be the same? Honest, non-loaded question - just want to know your thoughts. Separate question - why does training to become a cop, a serious and dangerous profession, generally require significantly less hours than training to be....a hair stylist, for example? Is that true? Doesn't seem like it would be. Link to comment
BIGREDIOWAN Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 My academy was 14 weeks long, field training was 12 weeks. Just depends on the department. That's your basic training, nevermind the 100's of hrs I've put in on CPR, first aid, domestic violence, sexual assault, firearms, etc, etc. So that's not necessarily true and Landlord you can't seem to get past this skin color debate. I just don't get it, it's a non issue, we don't get training on "How to screw over the black offender." Arbitrary comments about hair stylists receiving more training than police officers are part of the problem. Link to comment
Landlord Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I just don't get it, it's a non issue, we don't get training on "How to screw over the black offender." Arbitrary comments about hair stylists receiving more training than police officers are part of the problem. I've never once and will never once claim that it's intentional or conscious. But black people being treated disproportionately unfairly by the law (not just and not specifically police officers) is backed up by mounds of empirical evidence. I can't get past it because it exists. Back on point, I don't know the in's and out's of police training, I'm only looking at surface level general amount of weeks of academy/field training compared to year's of schooling and logged hours in something like cosmetology. It's not a slight, it's a genuine question that I could use more insight on. Link to comment
knapplc Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Sure there are bad cops. There are bad corks in a bottle of wine. But I've never run across either, in my personal experience. Do you think if you had a different skin color, that your personal experience would be the same? Honest, non-loaded question - just want to know your thoughts. Yes, I do. In fact, just this Fall a buddy was pulled over right here in Lincoln for what could only be described as "Driving While Black." I'm not about to pretend there aren't bad cops in Lincoln. But I do not believe they are the majority, or even a significant portion of the force. Link to comment
BIGREDIOWAN Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Sure there are bad cops. There are bad corks in a bottle of wine. But I've never run across either, in my personal experience. Do you think if you had a different skin color, that your personal experience would be the same? Honest, non-loaded question - just want to know your thoughts. Yes, I do. In fact, just this Fall a buddy was pulled over right here in Lincoln for what could only be described as "Driving While Black." I'm not about to pretend there aren't bad cops in Lincoln. But I do not believe they are the majority, or even a significant portion of the force. Exactly, so just like the police painting black folks with a broad brush for being "criminals" painting us with a broad brush is equally as bad. Most agencies require a criminal justice degree anymore or a degree in certain areas. So it can be argued that we have years of training as well, again depends on the department. The problem isn't solely on the police Landlord, the problem is also a issue with the citizen who won't comply with lawful orders. During an encounter with the police, it's not the time to argue the constitution and laws, it's time to do what the officer is asking you to do so life altering decisions don't have to be made by either party. So pointing the finger doesn't always fit, we have to make decisions and react to what the person in front of us is doing or isn't doing. Link to comment
knapplc Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Exactly, so just like the police painting black folks with a broad brush for being "criminals" painting us with a broad brush is equally as bad. Most agencies require a criminal justice degree anymore or a degree in certain areas. So it can be argued that we have years of training as well, again depends on the department. The problem isn't solely on the police Landlord, the problem is also a issue with the citizen who won't comply with lawful orders. During an encounter with the police, it's not the time to argue the constitution and laws, it's time to do what the officer is asking you to do so life altering decisions don't have to be made by either party. So pointing the finger doesn't always fit, we have to make decisions and react to what the person in front of us is doing or isn't doing. Man, there is so much gray area in this discussion. I agree that painting police with a broad brush is crap just like painting any other demographic thusly is crap. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 There are bad cops everywhere and (I have to believe) they are actually a minority. Being a cop is no different than any other profession. There are some that just shouldn't be in that job. It's part of being human. Right here in my home town we have gone through our fair share. One example is a few years ago, we hired a young cop right out of the academy. As happened sometimes, they come out gung ho and are going to go save the world. Well, this kid's "saving the world" involved being a total jack ass to many people around town. One incident involved giving a speeding ticket to someone on a bicycle. Then he seemed to feel that anyone who held a prominent position in town needed to be harassed. It became such a problem that there was actually a parent meeting with the chief of police. Well, he isn't here anymore. That is just one example. So, there are problem cops everywhere. Are young black men treated differently (in general) by police officers, I guess so. At least the data that is thrown out there indicates it happens. Fixing the problem is one hell of a lot more difficult than just marching in protest against police and claiming racism though. Link to comment
zoogs Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 It's not up to the protesters to fix the problem. All they can hope to do is rally supporters and together apply enough public pressure to make sure the people whose charge it is to do something, actually do. Would there be any urgency or any steps taken if the entire public just shrugged their shoulders whenever something like this happened? Probably not. Link to comment
tschu Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Yep. Public pressure can result in big changes, history has shown that time and time again. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 I'm not saying protests are wrong. Link to comment
tschu Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 No I'm with ya...a lot of things have to happen. But the protests help to change public perception which is big in driving the way that the legal and justice system acts. But yes I'd prefer that hard legal/policy/practice changes happen too. Progress is a long and winding road Link to comment
BIGREDIOWAN Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Big changes in what? Law enforcement? Because law enforcement is the way it is because of the way society has changed. This isn't Mayberry anymore, you can't police like that every where in America, not saying anyone is saying it is. Every city's policing challenges are the same and different at the same time. It's hard to explain, but what may work in one city won't work in another. And police haven't changed society to act the way it's acting, I guess if you wanted to argue it that way you could probably try, but our society has become more violent and situations evolve quickly which law enforcement has to evolve with and react to or we fail. Our justice system already gives enough breaks as it is. Don't believe me? Look up violent crimes and how many of those violent crimes involved someone who's had several chances to get their sh#t together, but chose not to. People have died from these breaks and lives have been ruined for it. Building more prisons and taking our worthless mental health care system and turning it around would be helpful. I can't tell you how many times the mental health care system fails and we as police have to deal with these people on the street. After spending years in a jail setting and dealing with mental folks I can probably get myself through some situations where other officers wouldn't be able to, so more training in that area would help, our state has made it mandatory. But, people with serious mental health disorders don't belong in jail, they belong in a mental health facility, but there aren't many of those left. Real life example of someone getting several chances: Guy has been arrested 27 times since 2004, has a serious problem with meth, currently in treatment, family finally has had enough and kicks him out and sends him to a shelter, he gets a gun, robs a credit union, gets in a police chase, then a foot chase, then car jacks a car and gets in another police chase, finally he wrecks this car, runs between two buildings, points a gun at a cop, now he's dead because of it. He just has a sentenced suspended, which would've been 7 years in prison, was put on probation, violated that probation and was going to go to prison. He's had 27 chances to get his sh#t together over the past 10 years and has refused to do so. Now several lives are ruined because of it, his family and the officer. This happened this past week in the Des Moines Metro Area. Who's failed? The police? Or the justice system? Oh and he's white, which a majority of the officer involved shootings involve. 1 Link to comment
BIGREDIOWAN Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Here's a very real, normal reaction to a police officer taking a life. We don't stand there and get "attaboys" from our colleagues. It's a very stressful situation for us that none of us ever want to go through. I'm not saying any of you are really saying that, but we are human too. http://www.ijreview.com/2015/01/229959-cops-heartbroken-reaction-shoot-kill-man/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=organic&utm_content=conservativedaily&utm_campaign=Police This officer is no longer an officer in the patrol sense, sounds like he joined an "investigative unit" which means he doesn't think he can really do that job anymore. Reality is a lot of us get out of the job because of these situations and the effects they cause. 1 Link to comment
Abdullah the Butcher Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 http://www.vox.com/2014/9/17/6113045/police-worn-body-cameras-explained The report found what seems to be a big early success in Rialto, California. Since 2012, all Rialto cops must wear body cameras. In the first year of the program, use of force by officers dropped 60 percent, and citizen complaints declined by 88 percent. Similar findings applied to other cities with body cameras. In multiple places, there were drops in citizen complaints. In the Scottish city of Aberdeen, there were fewer assaults on officers. And anecdotal evidence suggested a civilizing effect in Phoenix. 1 Link to comment
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