Minnesota_husker Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Eric was a big guy and the only way to subdue his arms were to get him on the ground.First, it's false to say that the only way to subdue his arms was to get him on the ground. Second, if the goal is to get him on the ground (which I'm fine with in this situation) the acceptable technique has nothing to do with a chokehold. The head and neck are not involved for reasons that should probably be obvious. BRI can probably chime in with how is trained to take a resisting suspect to the ground. My dad is an officer and they just went through a training about neck/arm restraints. I cant remember the exact name of that move, but it isnt meant to choke the suspect out, it is meant to gain position and take them off balance. In his training they talked a lot about the Garner situation. I get what you are saying, but again.. heat of the moment, that officer felt like that was the best plan to subdue a suspect. Hindsight shows it was probably wrong, but most people are not going to have serious injury from something like that. Tazer or mace can be just as harmful, especially Mace with a guy who has asthma. Link to comment
tschu Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Minny, man, this is a conversation you aren't going to win. Link to comment
walksalone Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Should of used a kimura lock. You're killing it with putting your foot in your mouth as of late... Well done... 1 Link to comment
Abdullah the Butcher Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Should of used a kimura lock. You're killing it with putting your foot in your mouth as of late... Well done... Get over yourself. Link to comment
Abdullah the Butcher Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6373988 A Texas grand jury has officially cleared an officer of any wrongdoing after he fatally shot an unarmed man back in January. Officer Juventino Castro will face no charges in the deadly shooting of 26-year-old Jordan Baker, Chron News reports. What's the end game for the pro indictment crowd? They won't be happy until a cop in convicted of murder? Link to comment
walksalone Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Should of used a kimura lock. You're killing it with putting your foot in your mouth as of late... Well done... Get over yourself. You'd be wise to heed your own advice... 1 Link to comment
Abdullah the Butcher Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Should of used a kimura lock. You're killing it with putting your foot in your mouth as of late... Well done... Get over yourself. You'd be wise to heed your own advice... If you eat a live frog in the morning, nothing worse will happen to either of you for the rest of the day. Link to comment
BIGREDIOWAN Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Eric was a big guy and the only way to subdue his arms were to get him on the ground.First, it's false to say that the only way to subdue his arms was to get him on the ground. Second, if the goal is to get him on the ground (which I'm fine with in this situation) the acceptable technique has nothing to do with a chokehold. The head and neck are not involved for reasons that should probably be obvious. BRI can probably chime in with how he was trained to take a resisting suspect to the ground. Typically we try and stay away from the head and neck area. Why? Because we've been warned, at least in Iowa anyways, that it can be construed as deadly force. You can get behind a subject, get them off balance by leaning back and having your arm around the upper chest area and you essentially aren't touching the head or the neck and you can take the subject down. I've done it several times and been successful as I'm in the position of advantage that way. Once you get their back, get them off balance, they're screwed. Now that's assuming they aren't comfortable in a ground fight, meaning a wrestler. I'm very comfortable in a ground fight, but I'm not a wrestler, and being in the State of Iowa and it being a huge wrestling state that's always a concern. I'll look for dead giveaways like cauliflower ear, things like that, that gives me knowledge which is an advantage. There are other techniques as well, arm bar take downs, sympathetic reactions, pressure points, etc, but my experience is when the SHTF you usually forget most of that stuff and go back to your take downs where you're trying to get the position of advantage and get them off balance. One good thing for me about working in a county jail for 6 years as a deputy was, I learned how to fight without having the luxury of tools on my duty belt because all of that besides pepper spray was taken from you. You also learned how to treat people and what respect truly meant. Those years in there have helped me immensely on the street. Every officer in America should spend at least 1 year in a county jail or prison setting. It teaches you how to talk to people and helps you not become a badge heavy a$$. Those murderers, gang bangers, rapists, etc. could care less if you wear a badge, but they'll give you respect if you give respect back to them. 4 Link to comment
tschu Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Another 18-year old black kid shot to death in Missouri tonight Information is spotty at this point, reading that he was unarmed and was shot for "fitting a description" ... also that he was alive and breathing for some time but no medical attention was called. As of right now, nearly an hour later, his body is still just lying in the street. Accuracy of this info is unknown. Want to stress: Accuracy is unknown. We'll see what info we wake up to in the morning. He could have pulled a gun on a cop for all we know. Link to comment
strigori Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6373988 A Texas grand jury has officially cleared an officer of any wrongdoing after he fatally shot an unarmed man back in January. Officer Juventino Castro will face no charges in the deadly shooting of 26-year-old Jordan Baker, Chron News reports. What's the end game for the pro indictment crowd? They won't be happy until a cop in convicted of murder? Please note the difference between "indictment" and "conviction." Why people are so angry is that there will not even be a day in court. No charges, no repercussions, nothing. Just business as usual. A grand jury does not need to meet the level of "Beyond a Reasonable Doubt" like a trial jury does, it simply states if there is enough of an argument to bring something to trial. And generally speaking, if the prosecutor wants there to be a trial, there will be a trial. And not a single one of these high profile cases have even had charges brought. THAT is the problem. Link to comment
Abdullah the Butcher Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Another 18-year old black kid shot to death in Missouri tonight Information is spotty at this point, reading that he was unarmed and was shot for "fitting a description" ... also that he was alive and breathing for some time but no medical attention was called. As of right now, nearly an hour later, his body is still just lying in the street. Accuracy of this info is unknown. Want to stress: Accuracy is unknown. We'll see what info we wake up to in the morning. He could have pulled a gun on a cop for all we know. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/12/24/man-shot-killed-berkeley/20849045/ St. Louis County police spokesman Sgt. Brian Schellman said a police officer saw two males at the side of a gas station while conducting a routine business check at about 11:15 p.m. He approached them and one of the men pulled a handgun and pointed it at the officer, Schellman said in a statement. "Fearing for his life, the Berkeley Officer fired several shots, striking the subject, fatally wounding him. The second subject fled the scene," Schellman said. Detectives said they recovered the deceased's handgun at the scene. Link to comment
Abdullah the Butcher Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6373988 A Texas grand jury has officially cleared an officer of any wrongdoing after he fatally shot an unarmed man back in January. Officer Juventino Castro will face no charges in the deadly shooting of 26-year-old Jordan Baker, Chron News reports. What's the end game for the pro indictment crowd? They won't be happy until a cop in convicted of murder? Please note the difference between "indictment" and "conviction." Why people are so angry is that there will not even be a day in court. No charges, no repercussions, nothing. Just business as usual. A grand jury does not need to meet the level of "Beyond a Reasonable Doubt" like a trial jury does, it simply states if there is enough of an argument to bring something to trial. And generally speaking, if the prosecutor wants there to be a trial, there will be a trial. And not a single one of these high profile cases have even had charges brought. THAT is the problem. I know that, I'm asking if protesters won't be happy until a cop is sent to trial and convicted of murder. Link to comment
carlfense Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Eric was a big guy and the only way to subdue his arms were to get him on the ground.First, it's false to say that the only way to subdue his arms was to get him on the ground. Second, if the goal is to get him on the ground (which I'm fine with in this situation) the acceptable technique has nothing to do with a chokehold. The head and neck are not involved for reasons that should probably be obvious. BRI can probably chime in with how he was trained to take a resisting suspect to the ground. Typically we try and stay away from the head and neck area. Why? Because we've been warned, at least in Iowa anyways, that it can be construed as deadly force. You can get behind a subject, get them off balance by leaning back and having your arm around the upper chest area and you essentially aren't touching the head or the neck and you can take the subject down. I've done it several times and been successful as I'm in the position of advantage that way. Once you get their back, get them off balance, they're screwed. Now that's assuming they aren't comfortable in a ground fight, meaning a wrestler. I'm very comfortable in a ground fight, but I'm not a wrestler, and being in the State of Iowa and it being a huge wrestling state that's always a concern. I'll look for dead giveaways like cauliflower ear, things like that, that gives me knowledge which is an advantage. There are other techniques as well, arm bar take downs, sympathetic reactions, pressure points, etc, but my experience is when the SHTF you usually forget most of that stuff and go back to your take downs where you're trying to get the position of advantage and get them off balance. One good thing for me about working in a county jail for 6 years as a deputy was, I learned how to fight without having the luxury of tools on my duty belt because all of that besides pepper spray was taken from you. You also learned how to treat people and what respect truly meant. Those years in there have helped me immensely on the street. Every officer in America should spend at least 1 year in a county jail or prison setting. It teaches you how to talk to people and helps you not become a badge heavy a$$. Those murderers, gang bangers, rapists, etc. could care less if you wear a badge, but they'll give you respect if you give respect back to them. Thanks BRI. I think that the training is similar in Nebraska. 1 Link to comment
BIGREDIOWAN Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Another 18-year old black kid shot to death in Missouri tonight Information is spotty at this point, reading that he was unarmed and was shot for "fitting a description" ... also that he was alive and breathing for some time but no medical attention was called. As of right now, nearly an hour later, his body is still just lying in the street. Accuracy of this info is unknown. Want to stress: Accuracy is unknown. We'll see what info we wake up to in the morning. He could have pulled a gun on a cop for all we know. I don't get the problem with his body "lying in the street" especially if he's deceased upon medics arrival and it's completely obvious, i.e. head shot. Officers that have been killed in the line of duty have laid in the street for hours upon hours so it's not like someone's left there for awhile as a disrespectful thing, at least not on purpose. The investigation needs to be done, the scene needs processed, crime scene photos need to be taken. Link to comment
Mavric Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Another 18-year old black kid shot to death in Missouri tonight Information is spotty at this point, reading that he was unarmed and was shot for "fitting a description" ... also that he was alive and breathing for some time but no medical attention was called. As of right now, nearly an hour later, his body is still just lying in the street. Accuracy of this info is unknown. Want to stress: Accuracy is unknown. We'll see what info we wake up to in the morning. He could have pulled a gun on a cop for all we know. Assuming this is the same instance, your initial report was almost completely fabricated. Link to comment
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