Martinez and the NFL

[lo country]

I had previously mentioned TO never got blown out, but found this from 247/sports....

 

So my friend, who often times exaggerates, tried to tell me this evening that Tom also had some rough losses under his belt early on. For some reason I had this picture in my mind of Osborne probably only losing one or two games in his career by more than a couple scores.I was pretty bored so I decided to check out and list all of Osborne's worst losses. Below are all of the losses in his career by more than ten points.

45-10 v. Oklahoma in 1990
38-7 v. #3 Oklahoma in 1977
27-0 v. #3 Oklahoma in 1973
35-10 v. #7 Oklahoma in 1975
45-21 v. #2 Georgia Tech in 1990
41-17 v. #5 Florida St. in 1989
22-0 v. #1 Miami in 1991
27-7 v. #5 Oklahoma in 1985
23-3 v. #2 Miami in 1988
19-0 v. #17 Arizona St.
20-3 v. #1 Alabama in 1978
27-12 v. #9 Colorado in 1990
36-21 v. #4 Washington in 1991
29-14 v. #2 Washington in 1992
28-14 v. #6 Oklahoma in 1974
41-28 v. #5 UCLA in 1988
27-14 v. #3 Florida St. in 1992

Notes
17 career losses by 11 points or more
11 career losses by 17 points or more
9 career losses by 20 points or more
6 losses by 24 points or more
2 losses by 31 points or more
Only one loss of 11 points or more occurred v. an unranked team (Oklahoma.)
His 4 worst losses came at the hands of Oklahoma
Oklahoma showed up on this list a total of 6 times
Wash, FSU, and Miami each showed up twice
5 of these losses came in bowl games
The late 80's to early 90's was the worst period

Anyone kind of surprised?

Obviously, I am not trying to take anything away from Coach Osborne, this an outstanding record (even if less impressive then I thought it would be.) And I' also not saying a 13 or 15 point loss is a blow out. Heck, some 20 point losses are close until strange things happen in the end.

However, when you take into consideration how much more competitive college football is today, how much more passing exists (thus inflating scores), and the fact he took over a program that won back-to-back National Championships under Devaney......perhaps we hold him in too much esteem? Maybe it's just me.

I've said it on here several times and I am sure many fans agree, but it's worth pointing out that Osborne's Huskers got their butt kicked on occasion as well - even late in his career. I'm not trying to alleviate the blow outs under Bo the last two years, but I think it's worth pointing out that everyone's human and the bad days can be overcome.

When you look at it over a career.....

Year Team Overall Conference Standing Bowl/playoffs Coaches^# AP^°Nebraska Cornhuskers (Big Eight Conference) (1973–1995)ci 1973 Nebraska 9–2–1 4–2–1 T–2nd W Cotton 11T 7 1974 Nebraska 9–3 5–2 T–2nd W Sugar 9 8 1975 Nebraska 10–2 6–1 T–1st L Fiesta 9 9 1976 Nebraska 9–3–1 4–3 T–4th W Bluebonnet 7 9 1977 Nebraska 9–3 5–2 T–2nd W Liberty 10 12 1978 Nebraska 9–3 6–1 T–1st L Orange 8 8 1979 Nebraska 10–2 6–1 2nd L Cotton 7 9 1980 Nebraska 10–2 6–1 2nd W Sun 7 7 1981 Nebraska 9–3 7–0 1st L Orange 9 11 1982 Nebraska 12–1 7–0 1st W Orange 3 3 1983 Nebraska 12–1 7–0 1st L Orange 2 2 1984 Nebraska 10–2 6–1 T–1st W Sugar 3 4 1985 Nebraska 9–3 6–1 2nd L Fiesta 10 11 1986 Nebraska 10–2 5–2 3rd W Sugar 4 5 1987 Nebraska 10–2 6–1 2nd L Fiesta 6 6 1988 Nebraska 11–2 7–0 1st L Orange 10 10 1989 Nebraska 10–2 6–1 2nd L Fiesta 12 11 1990 Nebraska 9–3 5–2 3rd L Florida Citrus 17T 24 1991 Nebraska 9–2–1 6–0–1 T–1st L Orange 16 15 1992 Nebraska 9–3 6–1 1st L Orange^† 14 14 1993 Nebraska 11–1 7–0 1st L Orange^† 3 3 1994 Nebraska 13–0 7–0 1st W Orange^† 1 1 1995 Nebraska 12–0 7–0 1st W Fiesta^† 1 1 Nebraska Cornhuskers (Big 12 Conference) (1996–1997) 1996 Nebraska 11–2 8–0 1st (North) W Orange^† 6 6 1997 Nebraska 13–0 8–0 1st (North) W Orange^† 1 2 Nebraska: 255–49–3 160–23–2 Total: 255–49–3 National champion

TO coached teams were ranked in the top 20 every season. The lowest ranking was T17 in the coaches poll. Not bad.

[jmfb]

It's probably the never good enough effect. Some day when we can barely string together two winning seasons in a row fans will wonder why people didn't like Bo Pelini. Top programs today have a big loss or two and talk about all the changes they need to make.

 

It's not really unreasonable. If the coaches themselves don't realize this and make changes, how will they improve? Osborne did make changes in the 90s and I suppose that was the difference from having a very strong Top 10 career up to that point that fizzled out late, to building off it and emerging a true legend of the game. And imagine if Bo Pelini had truly looked at his staff and himself and said they weren't getting it done at the level required.

Good post

Could very well be true, could happen here

 

BUT for those that lived through the BP era rather than just reading about it- most of us will remember his legacy goes well beyond stringing together 7 winning seasons

IMO the reason he was let go had to do with his spiteful attitude towards NU fans and administration along with turning the players against the fans, his on the field antics, lack of professsionalism and poor representation of the U. Personally I supported his firing, not that it matters. As to Frank Solich- while no Hall of Fame coach, I thought he deserved more time to develop JMO

 

A guy like Mike Riley is going to see more patience from the majority of fans if the w/l record is similar to Bos. I dont see MR having the same maturity, PR, attitude issues BP had. Lets hope we dont have to find out.

[jmfb]

I had previously mentioned TO never got blown out, but found this from 247/sports....

 

So my friend, who often times exaggerates, tried to tell me this evening that Tom also had some rough losses under his belt early on. For some reason I had this picture in my mind of Osborne probably only losing one or two games in his career by more than a couple scores.I was pretty bored so I decided to check out and list all of Osborne's worst losses. Below are all of the losses in his career by more than ten points.

45-10 v. Oklahoma in 1990

38-7 v. #3 Oklahoma in 1977

27-0 v. #3 Oklahoma in 1973

35-10 v. #7 Oklahoma in 1975

45-21 v. #2 Georgia Tech in 1990

41-17 v. #5 Florida St. in 1989

22-0 v. #1 Miami in 1991

27-7 v. #5 Oklahoma in 1985

23-3 v. #2 Miami in 1988

19-0 v. #17 Arizona St.

20-3 v. #1 Alabama in 1978

27-12 v. #9 Colorado in 1990

36-21 v. #4 Washington in 1991

29-14 v. #2 Washington in 1992

28-14 v. #6 Oklahoma in 1974

41-28 v. #5 UCLA in 1988

27-14 v. #3 Florida St. in 1992

Notes

17 career losses by 11 points or more

11 career losses by 17 points or more

9 career losses by 20 points or more

6 losses by 24 points or more

2 losses by 31 points or more

Only one loss of 11 points or more occurred v. an unranked team (Oklahoma.)

His 4 worst losses came at the hands of Oklahoma

Oklahoma showed up on this list a total of 6 times

Wash, FSU, and Miami each showed up twice

5 of these losses came in bowl games

The late 80's to early 90's was the worst period

Anyone kind of surprised?

Obviously, I am not trying to take anything away from Coach Osborne, this an outstanding record (even if less impressive then I thought it would be.) And I' also not saying a 13 or 15 point loss is a blow out. Heck, some 20 point losses are close until strange things happen in the end.

However, when you take into consideration how much more competitive college football is today, how much more passing exists (thus inflating scores), and the fact he took over a program that won back-to-back National Championships under Devaney......perhaps we hold him in too much esteem? Maybe it's just me.

I've said it on here several times and I am sure many fans agree, but it's worth pointing out that Osborne's Huskers got their butt kicked on occasion as well - even late in his career. I'm not trying to alleviate the blow outs under Bo the last two years, but I think it's worth pointing out that everyone's human and the bad days can be overcome.

When you look at it over a career.....

Year Team Overall Conference Standing Bowl/playoffs Coaches^# AP^°Nebraska Cornhuskers (Big Eight Conference) (1973–1995)ci 1973 Nebraska 9–2–1 4–2–1 T–2nd W Cotton 11T 7 1974 Nebraska 9–3 5–2 T–2nd W Sugar 9 8 1975 Nebraska 10–2 6–1 T–1st L Fiesta 9 9 1976 Nebraska 9–3–1 4–3 T–4th W Bluebonnet 7 9 1977 Nebraska 9–3 5–2 T–2nd W Liberty 10 12 1978 Nebraska 9–3 6–1 T–1st L Orange 8 8 1979 Nebraska 10–2 6–1 2nd L Cotton 7 9 1980 Nebraska 10–2 6–1 2nd W Sun 7 7 1981 Nebraska 9–3 7–0 1st L Orange 9 11 1982 Nebraska 12–1 7–0 1st W Orange 3 3 1983 Nebraska 12–1 7–0 1st L Orange 2 2 1984 Nebraska 10–2 6–1 T–1st W Sugar 3 4 1985 Nebraska 9–3 6–1 2nd L Fiesta 10 11 1986 Nebraska 10–2 5–2 3rd W Sugar 4 5 1987 Nebraska 10–2 6–1 2nd L Fiesta 6 6 1988 Nebraska 11–2 7–0 1st L Orange 10 10 1989 Nebraska 10–2 6–1 2nd L Fiesta 12 11 1990 Nebraska 9–3 5–2 3rd L Florida Citrus 17T 24 1991 Nebraska 9–2–1 6–0–1 T–1st L Orange 16 15 1992 Nebraska 9–3 6–1 1st L Orange^† 14 14 1993 Nebraska 11–1 7–0 1st L Orange^† 3 3 1994 Nebraska 13–0 7–0 1st W Orange^† 1 1 1995 Nebraska 12–0 7–0 1st W Fiesta^† 1 1 Nebraska Cornhuskers (Big 12 Conference) (1996–1997) 1996 Nebraska 11–2 8–0 1st (North) W Orange^† 6 6 1997 Nebraska 13–0 8–0 1st (North) W Orange^† 1 2 Nebraska: 255–49–3 160–23–2 Total: 255–49–3 National champion

TO coached teams were ranked in the top 20 every season. The lowest ranking was T17 in the coaches poll. Not bad.

17 losses by 11 points or more in 307 attempts

 

Only a single loss to an unranked team by 11 or more and Im guessing OU had something to play for that game or was on the edge of being top 20

 

That is once every 18 games- an incredibly small amount about once every couple of years

 

His consistency is astounding by any standard

[jmfb]

For those that werent around to see TOs teams back before he won all those National Titles, he came pretty close quite a few times, which earned him some leeway when he had one of those 17 abberations on a 307 game career.

 

1975 In National Title hunt until Thanksgiving- losing to OU by 25 and then just barely losing the Fiesta Bowl by 3 to ASU- 2 loss season. 1 play away from 1 loss season

1978- Lost to National Champion Alabama by 17 game 1, Fought themselves back into Nat Title hunt with win over OU, but lost to MO by 4 the following week, lost to OU by 7 in Bowl game. So right on cusp

1979- In title hunt until Thanksgiving- lost to OU and Houston by combined 6 points- and lost late. Lost to Houston in last 12 seconds. So just 2 plays from being undefeated. On cusp. 2 plays away from undefeated season.

1980- 2 Losses- both close nail biters to FSU and OU- again 2 plays from an undefeated season- on the cusp

1981- Lost to Iowa, Penn State and Nat Champion Clemson- all by 1 score or less. Crazy as it sounds worked themselves back into conversation. 3 plays away from undefeated. Close

1982- One crazy loss to Penn State on very controversial set of 2 plays. NU extremely close again- 1 play away/ bad call away from undefeated season

1983- Can anyone get any closer? One tipped pass against Miami away from winning Nat Title- undefeated season

1984- Close again, 2 losses, Syracuse by 8 and OU by 10

1985 FSU by 4, OU by 20, Michigan by 4, 2 plays away from 1 loss season

1986- CU by 10, OU by 3, a total of 13 points, one play away from 1 loss season- in title Hunt

1987 OU by 10, FSU by 4, In title Hunt, 1 play away from 1 loss season

1988 UCLA by 13, Miami by 20

1989 CU by 6, FSU by 24- 1 play away from 1 loss season

1990- "Bad Season"- CU by 15, then OU by 35 and GTZ by 24

1991- WA- really good WA teams then- Nat Title times for them- 15, MIami 22

1992- WA- 15, ISU 9, FSU 13

1993- FSU by 2, a game IMO stolen from NU so one bad call, one play away from undefeated and Nat Title

1994- Nat title

1995 Nat title

1996- Back in the hunt after losing early to #2 ASU- had it not been for the "food poisoning/Flu" of a good portion of the NU team- NU beats Texas and is right in thick of things for National Title

1997- National Title

 

So- as you can see- TOs teams were often times right in the thick of things and only a play away from an undefeated season or 1 loss season.

For me and most NU fans back then- that earned him whatever he wanted. There was no big movement to look for another coach.

He was right on the cusp and would eventually get his National Titles- that was my thought anyways

 

IMO he had a series of really bad breaks go against him, that had to eventually even themselves out. Sure lots of broken hearted NU fans- but most of us knew or at least were hoping TO would finally win a Nat Title for his sake- not ours.

 

When you compare today vs back then- remember NU was playing in much better Bowl games and would often times lose to the eventual National Champions either in conference- Oklahoma was incredible, CU etc Non Conference Nat Champions- Washington, Bama, FSU, Penn State, #2 ASU etc or Bowl Game- Clemson, GT, FSU, Miami

[NUinID]

jmfb why is it that you are out to prove something? Tom Osborne was a great coach he rarely lost to an unranked team his teams almost always finished in the top ten. He is a living legend in my mind and in most Nebraska fans minds. OK

 

The whole point was that TO did lose on occasion some games badly. That is it.

[jmfb]

jmfb, I think the area I will disagree with you is your reliance on the 31 poins spreads.

 

To me, some of those losses are worse than you're giving them credit. For example, losing 19-0 on the road against #17 ASU is definitely a bad loss. It doesn't matter if ASU was ranked - that's a clunker. No offensive production against a team they were likely favorites against? Picture perfect clunker, even if the point spread wasn't 31 points or higher.

 

Someone else put up a bunch of stats with 31 being their number of reference not mine

 

ASU that season ended up #4, really good team- Jake Plummer at QB

They lost a heartbreaker in the Rose bowl by 3, then ranked #2, had they won they would have won the National Championship. Getting shut out was bad, but we were still getting our QB situation figured out. Tough game for a first time hard road game starter- ASU played great.

NU was starting a new QB Scott Frost- and by seasons end was hitting it pretty hard and back in the hunt had it not been for the Flu/Food poisoning fiasco that cost us that crazy close game against Texas

 

My point is- the "bad" games are so infrequent and almost always against such good competition, they dont matter much at all. The great coaches are consistent over the long haul, the lesser ones arent.

[Saunders]

jmfb why is it that you are out to prove something? Tom Osborne was a great coach he rarely lost to an unranked team his teams almost always finished in the top ten. He is a living legend in my mind and in most Nebraska fans minds. OK

 

The whole point was that TO did lose on occasion some games badly. That is it.

[NUinID]

 

jmfb, I think the area I will disagree with you is your reliance on the 31 poins spreads.

 

To me, some of those losses are worse than you're giving them credit. For example, losing 19-0 on the road against #17 ASU is definitely a bad loss. It doesn't matter if ASU was ranked - that's a clunker. No offensive production against a team they were likely favorites against? Picture perfect clunker, even if the point spread wasn't 31 points or higher.

 

Someone else put up a bunch of stats with 31 being their number of reference not mine

 

ASU that season ended up #4, really good team- Jake Plummer at QB

They lost a heartbreaker in the Rose bowl by 3, then ranked #2, had they won they would have won the National Championship. Getting shut out was bad, but we were still getting our QB situation figured out. Tough game for a first time hard road game starter- ASU played great.

NU was starting a new QB Scott Frost- and by seasons end was hitting it pretty hard and back in the hunt had it not been for the Flu/Food poisoning fiasco that cost us that crazy close game against Texas

 

My point is- the "bad" games are so infrequent and almost always against such good competition, they dont matter much at all. The great coaches are consistent over the long haul, the lesser ones arent.

 

 

Over the long haul yes you are correct, bad games don't matter much at all. That doesn't mean they didn't matter at the time or that they didn't happen.

[Enhance]

 

jmfb, I think the area I will disagree with you is your reliance on the 31 poins spreads.

 

To me, some of those losses are worse than you're giving them credit. For example, losing 19-0 on the road against #17 ASU is definitely a bad loss. It doesn't matter if ASU was ranked - that's a clunker. No offensive production against a team they were likely favorites against? Picture perfect clunker, even if the point spread wasn't 31 points or higher.

 

Someone else put up a bunch of stats with 31 being their number of reference not mine

 

ASU that season ended up #4, really good team- Jake Plummer at QB

They lost a heartbreaker in the Rose bowl by 3, then ranked #2, had they won they would have won the National Championship. Getting shut out was bad, but we were still getting our QB situation figured out. Tough game for a first time hard road game starter- ASU played great.

NU was starting a new QB Scott Frost- and by seasons end was hitting it pretty hard and back in the hunt had it not been for the Flu/Food poisoning fiasco that cost us that crazy close game against Texas

 

My point is- the "bad" games are so infrequent and almost always against such good competition, they dont matter much at all. The great coaches are consistent over the long haul, the lesser ones arent.

You don't need to justify every single little thing when you're responding to people. I get it. The problem with you is you don't think anybody else gets what you're arguing. WE DO. I don't mean to be rude but you keep posting these ridiculously long comebacks that nobody is disagreeing with you on. So, why do you keep doing them?

 

Listen, just do me a favor so that this circular conversation can come to an end. If someone ever asks you 'did a Tom Osborne team ever get beaten and lose a bad game,' answer yes. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS CONVERSATION.

 

You can then spend the next 45 minutes breaking it down for them as to why they weren't that significant. I don't care. Someone said he never got beaten badly - THAT'S NOT TRUE. It doesn't matter if it was insignificant in your eyes. I and others personally think it's more significant than you're giving it credit for.

 

IT'S NOT TRUE.

 

IT'S NOT TRUE.

 

IT'S NOT TRUE.

 

There, I'm done being a two-year-old.

[Guy Chamberlin]

I had previously mentioned TO never got blown out, but found this from 247/sports....

 

So my friend, who often times exaggerates, tried to tell me this evening that Tom also had some rough losses under his belt early on. For some reason I had this picture in my mind of Osborne probably only losing one or two games in his career by more than a couple scores.I was pretty bored so I decided to check out and list all of Osborne's worst losses. Below are all of the losses in his career by more than ten points.

45-10 v. Oklahoma in 1990

38-7 v. #3 Oklahoma in 1977

27-0 v. #3 Oklahoma in 1973

35-10 v. #7 Oklahoma in 1975

45-21 v. #2 Georgia Tech in 1990

41-17 v. #5 Florida St. in 1989

22-0 v. #1 Miami in 1991

27-7 v. #5 Oklahoma in 1985

23-3 v. #2 Miami in 1988

19-0 v. #17 Arizona St.

20-3 v. #1 Alabama in 1978

27-12 v. #9 Colorado in 1990

36-21 v. #4 Washington in 1991

29-14 v. #2 Washington in 1992

28-14 v. #6 Oklahoma in 1974

41-28 v. #5 UCLA in 1988

27-14 v. #3 Florida St. in 1992

Notes

17 career losses by 11 points or more

11 career losses by 17 points or more

9 career losses by 20 points or more

6 losses by 24 points or more

2 losses by 31 points or more

Only one loss of 11 points or more occurred v. an unranked team (Oklahoma.)

His 4 worst losses came at the hands of Oklahoma

Oklahoma showed up on this list a total of 6 times

Wash, FSU, and Miami each showed up twice

5 of these losses came in bowl games

The late 80's to early 90's was the worst period

Anyone kind of surprised?

Obviously, I am not trying to take anything away from Coach Osborne, this an outstanding record (even if less impressive then I thought it would be.) And I' also not saying a 13 or 15 point loss is a blow out. Heck, some 20 point losses are close until strange things happen in the end.

However, when you take into consideration how much more competitive college football is today, how much more passing exists (thus inflating scores), and the fact he took over a program that won back-to-back National Championships under Devaney......perhaps we hold him in too much esteem? Maybe it's just me.

I've said it on here several times and I am sure many fans agree, but it's worth pointing out that Osborne's Huskers got their butt kicked on occasion as well - even late in his career. I'm not trying to alleviate the blow outs under Bo the last two years, but I think it's worth pointing out that everyone's human and the bad days can be overcome.

When you look at it over a career.....

Year Team Overall Conference Standing Bowl/playoffs Coaches^# AP^°Nebraska Cornhuskers (Big Eight Conference) (1973–1995)ci 1973 Nebraska 9–2–1 4–2–1 T–2nd W Cotton 11T 7 1974 Nebraska 9–3 5–2 T–2nd W Sugar 9 8 1975 Nebraska 10–2 6–1 T–1st L Fiesta 9 9 1976 Nebraska 9–3–1 4–3 T–4th W Bluebonnet 7 9 1977 Nebraska 9–3 5–2 T–2nd W Liberty 10 12 1978 Nebraska 9–3 6–1 T–1st L Orange 8 8 1979 Nebraska 10–2 6–1 2nd L Cotton 7 9 1980 Nebraska 10–2 6–1 2nd W Sun 7 7 1981 Nebraska 9–3 7–0 1st L Orange 9 11 1982 Nebraska 12–1 7–0 1st W Orange 3 3 1983 Nebraska 12–1 7–0 1st L Orange 2 2 1984 Nebraska 10–2 6–1 T–1st W Sugar 3 4 1985 Nebraska 9–3 6–1 2nd L Fiesta 10 11 1986 Nebraska 10–2 5–2 3rd W Sugar 4 5 1987 Nebraska 10–2 6–1 2nd L Fiesta 6 6 1988 Nebraska 11–2 7–0 1st L Orange 10 10 1989 Nebraska 10–2 6–1 2nd L Fiesta 12 11 1990 Nebraska 9–3 5–2 3rd L Florida Citrus 17T 24 1991 Nebraska 9–2–1 6–0–1 T–1st L Orange 16 15 1992 Nebraska 9–3 6–1 1st L Orange^† 14 14 1993 Nebraska 11–1 7–0 1st L Orange^† 3 3 1994 Nebraska 13–0 7–0 1st W Orange^† 1 1 1995 Nebraska 12–0 7–0 1st W Fiesta^† 1 1 Nebraska Cornhuskers (Big 12 Conference) (1996–1997) 1996 Nebraska 11–2 8–0 1st (North) W Orange^† 6 6 1997 Nebraska 13–0 8–0 1st (North) W Orange^† 1 2 Nebraska: 255–49–3 160–23–2 Total: 255–49–3 National champion

TO coached teams were ranked in the top 20 every season. The lowest ranking was T17 in the coaches poll. Not bad.

 

Thanks for taking the time and having an open mind, Lo Country.

 

Folks suffering through this thread may have forgotten that I had originally responded to your post asserting that while Tom Osborne teams may have lost, they were never beaten, and a couple subsequent posts about Osborne only losing to great teams. First hand memories and historical evidence confirms that Tom Osborne teams got beaten pretty bad by those great teams, and his losses to unranked and lower ranked teams were hardly abberations. His Nebraska teams had plenty of letdown games, fumble-fests and clunkers, like a lot of Top 20 teams do every year. His potential departures in 1978 and 1990 confirms that criticism of Osborne was not limited to a tiny minority that didn't understand football. There's a good reason for remembering Nebraska football in the '90s, but there were different storylines in the the 20 years preceeding it.

 

I'll leave jmfb to argue that on balance, Tom Osborne was a great coach, presiding over season after season that Bo Pelini and the fanbase would love to have had.

 

An argument that no one here has disagreed with.

[NUinID]

 

 

jmfb, I think the area I will disagree with you is your reliance on the 31 poins spreads.

 

To me, some of those losses are worse than you're giving them credit. For example, losing 19-0 on the road against #17 ASU is definitely a bad loss. It doesn't matter if ASU was ranked - that's a clunker. No offensive production against a team they were likely favorites against? Picture perfect clunker, even if the point spread wasn't 31 points or higher.

 

Someone else put up a bunch of stats with 31 being their number of reference not mine

 

ASU that season ended up #4, really good team- Jake Plummer at QB

They lost a heartbreaker in the Rose bowl by 3, then ranked #2, had they won they would have won the National Championship. Getting shut out was bad, but we were still getting our QB situation figured out. Tough game for a first time hard road game starter- ASU played great.

NU was starting a new QB Scott Frost- and by seasons end was hitting it pretty hard and back in the hunt had it not been for the Flu/Food poisoning fiasco that cost us that crazy close game against Texas

 

My point is- the "bad" games are so infrequent and almost always against such good competition, they dont matter much at all. The great coaches are consistent over the long haul, the lesser ones arent.

You don't need to justify every single little thing when you're responding to people. I get it. The problem with you is you don't think anybody else gets what you're arguing. WE DO. I don't mean to be rude but you keep posting these ridiculously long comebacks that nobody is disagreeing with you on. So, why do you keep doing them?

 

Listen, just do me a favor so that this circular conversation can come to an end. If someone ever asks you 'did a Tom Osborne team ever get beaten and lose a bad game,' answer yes. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS CONVERSATION.

 

You can then spend the next 45 minutes breaking it down for them as to why they weren't that significant. I don't care. Someone said he never got beaten badly - THAT'S NOT TRUE. It doesn't matter if it was insignificant in your eyes. I and others personally think it's more significant than you're giving it credit for.

 

IT'S NOT TRUE.

 

IT'S NOT TRUE.

 

IT'S NOT TRUE.

 

There, I'm done being a two-year-old.

 

[jmfb]

 

I had previously mentioned TO never got blown out, but found this from 247/sports....

 

So my friend, who often times exaggerates, tried to tell me this evening that Tom also had some rough losses under his belt early on. For some reason I had this picture in my mind of Osborne probably only losing one or two games in his career by more than a couple scores.I was pretty bored so I decided to check out and list all of Osborne's worst losses. Below are all of the losses in his career by more than ten points.

45-10 v. Oklahoma in 1990

38-7 v. #3 Oklahoma in 1977

27-0 v. #3 Oklahoma in 1973

35-10 v. #7 Oklahoma in 1975

45-21 v. #2 Georgia Tech in 1990

41-17 v. #5 Florida St. in 1989

22-0 v. #1 Miami in 1991

27-7 v. #5 Oklahoma in 1985

23-3 v. #2 Miami in 1988

19-0 v. #17 Arizona St.

20-3 v. #1 Alabama in 1978

27-12 v. #9 Colorado in 1990

36-21 v. #4 Washington in 1991

29-14 v. #2 Washington in 1992

28-14 v. #6 Oklahoma in 1974

41-28 v. #5 UCLA in 1988

27-14 v. #3 Florida St. in 1992

Notes

17 career losses by 11 points or more

11 career losses by 17 points or more

9 career losses by 20 points or more

6 losses by 24 points or more

2 losses by 31 points or more

Only one loss of 11 points or more occurred v. an unranked team (Oklahoma.)

His 4 worst losses came at the hands of Oklahoma

Oklahoma showed up on this list a total of 6 times

Wash, FSU, and Miami each showed up twice

5 of these losses came in bowl games

The late 80's to early 90's was the worst period

Anyone kind of surprised?

Obviously, I am not trying to take anything away from Coach Osborne, this an outstanding record (even if less impressive then I thought it would be.) And I' also not saying a 13 or 15 point loss is a blow out. Heck, some 20 point losses are close until strange things happen in the end.

However, when you take into consideration how much more competitive college football is today, how much more passing exists (thus inflating scores), and the fact he took over a program that won back-to-back National Championships under Devaney......perhaps we hold him in too much esteem? Maybe it's just me.

I've said it on here several times and I am sure many fans agree, but it's worth pointing out that Osborne's Huskers got their butt kicked on occasion as well - even late in his career. I'm not trying to alleviate the blow outs under Bo the last two years, but I think it's worth pointing out that everyone's human and the bad days can be overcome.

When you look at it over a career.....

Year Team Overall Conference Standing Bowl/playoffs Coaches^# AP^°Nebraska Cornhuskers (Big Eight Conference) (1973–1995)ci 1973 Nebraska 9–2–1 4–2–1 T–2nd W Cotton 11T 7 1974 Nebraska 9–3 5–2 T–2nd W Sugar 9 8 1975 Nebraska 10–2 6–1 T–1st L Fiesta 9 9 1976 Nebraska 9–3–1 4–3 T–4th W Bluebonnet 7 9 1977 Nebraska 9–3 5–2 T–2nd W Liberty 10 12 1978 Nebraska 9–3 6–1 T–1st L Orange 8 8 1979 Nebraska 10–2 6–1 2nd L Cotton 7 9 1980 Nebraska 10–2 6–1 2nd W Sun 7 7 1981 Nebraska 9–3 7–0 1st L Orange 9 11 1982 Nebraska 12–1 7–0 1st W Orange 3 3 1983 Nebraska 12–1 7–0 1st L Orange 2 2 1984 Nebraska 10–2 6–1 T–1st W Sugar 3 4 1985 Nebraska 9–3 6–1 2nd L Fiesta 10 11 1986 Nebraska 10–2 5–2 3rd W Sugar 4 5 1987 Nebraska 10–2 6–1 2nd L Fiesta 6 6 1988 Nebraska 11–2 7–0 1st L Orange 10 10 1989 Nebraska 10–2 6–1 2nd L Fiesta 12 11 1990 Nebraska 9–3 5–2 3rd L Florida Citrus 17T 24 1991 Nebraska 9–2–1 6–0–1 T–1st L Orange 16 15 1992 Nebraska 9–3 6–1 1st L Orange^† 14 14 1993 Nebraska 11–1 7–0 1st L Orange^† 3 3 1994 Nebraska 13–0 7–0 1st W Orange^† 1 1 1995 Nebraska 12–0 7–0 1st W Fiesta^† 1 1 Nebraska Cornhuskers (Big 12 Conference) (1996–1997) 1996 Nebraska 11–2 8–0 1st (North) W Orange^† 6 6 1997 Nebraska 13–0 8–0 1st (North) W Orange^† 1 2 Nebraska: 255–49–3 160–23–2 Total: 255–49–3 National champion

TO coached teams were ranked in the top 20 every season. The lowest ranking was T17 in the coaches poll. Not bad.

 

Thanks for taking the time and having an open mind, Lo Country.

 

Folks suffering through this thread may have forgotten that I had originally responded to your post asserting that while Tom Osborne teams may have lost, they were never beaten, and a couple subsequent posts about Osborne only losing to great teams. First hand memories and historical evidence confirms that Tom Osborne teams got beaten pretty bad by those great teams, and his losses to unranked and lower ranked teams were hardly abberations. His Nebraska teams had plenty of letdown games, fumble-fests and clunkers, like a lot of Top 20 teams do every year. His potential departures in 1978 and 1990 confirms that criticism of Osborne was not limited to a tiny minority that didn't understand football. There's a good reason for remembering Nebraska football in the '90s, but there were different storylines in the the 20 years preceeding it.

 

I'll leave jmfb to argue that on balance, Tom Osborne was a great coach, presiding over season after season that Bo Pelini and the fanbase would love to have had.

 

An argument that no one here has disagreed with.

 

Youre the one beating a dead horse and a lot of the info isn't correct

For Example in 1996 Arizona State was ranked #2 going into the Rose Bowl and came one play away from winning the National Title- finishing 4th a year NU fought its way back into the National Title conversation. In 1990 both Georgia Tech and Colorado ended up being #1- we lost to both. I think one of those Washington Teams ended up winning a National Title too.

 

Lots of the games posted are from teams ranked higher than NU and most times with better recruiting classes. Look at all the #1- 5 teams on that list. My goodness when was the last time we even played a National Championship team? People have no context or real thing to compare it to today.

NU under TO averaged 15 in recruiting ranking

 

There was no big fan movement to look at anyone other than TO to coach

ALL great coaches have agents, teams beating on their doors, that's life

All the near misses I pointed out more than made up for the tiny handful of "bad" losses

As someone that had season tickets throughout all of the TO years from 1970 forward- and working in a good sized office, and interacting with lots of football coaches/Football people, attending away games/bowl games etc- I didn't see anything that looked like paying fan support to replace TO.

If there was an oddball comment which I heard very little of, the reaction was usually rolled eyes and a smirk from most.

 

Im disagreeing with you, that's it. "plenty" of bad games would mean those teams wouldn't end up in the top 10 or TO being in the Hall of Fame- or in the top 3 all time in most guys lists. Which wasn't the case at all.

[Saunders]

So, how about Taylor Martinez and the NFL?

[NUance]

So, how about Taylor Martinez and the NFL?

 

You trying to hint around about something?

 

 

[MichiganDad3]

I had previously mentioned TO never got blown out, but found this from 247/sports....

 

So my friend, who often times exaggerates, tried to tell me this evening that Tom also had some rough losses under his belt early on. For some reason I had this picture in my mind of Osborne probably only losing one or two games in his career by more than a couple scores.I was pretty bored so I decided to check out and list all of Osborne's worst losses. Below are all of the losses in his career by more than ten points.

45-10 v. Oklahoma in 1990

38-7 v. #3 Oklahoma in 1977

27-0 v. #3 Oklahoma in 1973

35-10 v. #7 Oklahoma in 1975

45-21 v. #2 Georgia Tech in 1990

41-17 v. #5 Florida St. in 1989

22-0 v. #1 Miami in 1991

27-7 v. #5 Oklahoma in 1985

23-3 v. #2 Miami in 1988

19-0 v. #17 Arizona St.

20-3 v. #1 Alabama in 1978

27-12 v. #9 Colorado in 1990

36-21 v. #4 Washington in 1991

29-14 v. #2 Washington in 1992

28-14 v. #6 Oklahoma in 1974

41-28 v. #5 UCLA in 1988

27-14 v. #3 Florida St. in 1992

Notes

17 career losses by 11 points or more

11 career losses by 17 points or more

9 career losses by 20 points or more

6 losses by 24 points or more

2 losses by 31 points or more

Only one loss of 11 points or more occurred v. an unranked team (Oklahoma.)

His 4 worst losses came at the hands of Oklahoma

Oklahoma showed up on this list a total of 6 times

Wash, FSU, and Miami each showed up twice

5 of these losses came in bowl games

The late 80's to early 90's was the worst period

Anyone kind of surprised?

Obviously, I am not trying to take anything away from Coach Osborne, this an outstanding record (even if less impressive then I thought it would be.) And I' also not saying a 13 or 15 point loss is a blow out. Heck, some 20 point losses are close until strange things happen in the end.

However, when you take into consideration how much more competitive college football is today, how much more passing exists (thus inflating scores), and the fact he took over a program that won back-to-back National Championships under Devaney......perhaps we hold him in too much esteem? Maybe it's just me.

I've said it on here several times and I am sure many fans agree, but it's worth pointing out that Osborne's Huskers got their butt kicked on occasion as well - even late in his career. I'm not trying to alleviate the blow outs under Bo the last two years, but I think it's worth pointing out that everyone's human and the bad days can be overcome.

When you look at it over a career.....

Year Team Overall Conference Standing Bowl/playoffs Coaches^# AP^°Nebraska Cornhuskers (Big Eight Conference) (1973–1995)ci 1973 Nebraska 9–2–1 4–2–1 T–2nd W Cotton 11T 7 1974 Nebraska 9–3 5–2 T–2nd W Sugar 9 8 1975 Nebraska 10–2 6–1 T–1st L Fiesta 9 9 1976 Nebraska 9–3–1 4–3 T–4th W Bluebonnet 7 9 1977 Nebraska 9–3 5–2 T–2nd W Liberty 10 12 1978 Nebraska 9–3 6–1 T–1st L Orange 8 8 1979 Nebraska 10–2 6–1 2nd L Cotton 7 9 1980 Nebraska 10–2 6–1 2nd W Sun 7 7 1981 Nebraska 9–3 7–0 1st L Orange 9 11 1982 Nebraska 12–1 7–0 1st W Orange 3 3 1983 Nebraska 12–1 7–0 1st L Orange 2 2 1984 Nebraska 10–2 6–1 T–1st W Sugar 3 4 1985 Nebraska 9–3 6–1 2nd L Fiesta 10 11 1986 Nebraska 10–2 5–2 3rd W Sugar 4 5 1987 Nebraska 10–2 6–1 2nd L Fiesta 6 6 1988 Nebraska 11–2 7–0 1st L Orange 10 10 1989 Nebraska 10–2 6–1 2nd L Fiesta 12 11 1990 Nebraska 9–3 5–2 3rd L Florida Citrus 17T 24 1991 Nebraska 9–2–1 6–0–1 T–1st L Orange 16 15 1992 Nebraska 9–3 6–1 1st L Orange^† 14 14 1993 Nebraska 11–1 7–0 1st L Orange^† 3 3 1994 Nebraska 13–0 7–0 1st W Orange^† 1 1 1995 Nebraska 12–0 7–0 1st W Fiesta^† 1 1 Nebraska Cornhuskers (Big 12 Conference) (1996–1997) 1996 Nebraska 11–2 8–0 1st (North) W Orange^† 6 6 1997 Nebraska 13–0 8–0 1st (North) W Orange^† 1 2 Nebraska: 255–49–3 160–23–2 Total: 255–49–3 National champion

TO coached teams were ranked in the top 20 every season. The lowest ranking was T17 in the coaches poll. Not bad.

Twelve of the 17 were to top 5 teams, and 15 of 17 were to top 10 teams. Not bad considering. I remember thinking how lucky we were to have Devaney and that TO would never be as good as Bob, and I would just have to be satisfied with a top 10 finish and a loss in a major bowl. I never expected TO to improve so much.