The 2020 Presidential Election - Convention & General Election

[knapplc]

8 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

Then I suggest not saying Biden has never been credibly accused. It's implying that the current accusation is not credible. However, there's independent confirmation that Reade told the story 25+ years ago. That's not to say that proves Biden is guilty, but the accusation has supporting evidence which makes it more "credible" than "not credible".

 

Reade is not credible. Her case would not be taken by a prosecutor if she had a timely filing.

[RedDenver]

7 minutes ago, knapplc said:

Reade is not credible. Her case would not be taken by a prosecutor if she had a timely filing.

The first sentence is entirely your opinion. I've expressed my opinion as to why I think she is credible and more credible than Blasey-Ford whom I also found credible.

 

The bold is you projecting what you'd like to be true. There's absolutely no way for you to know this.

[knapplc]

Just now, RedDenver said:

The first sentence is entirely your opinion. I've expressed my opinion as to why I think she is credible and more credible than Blasey-Ford whom I also found credible.

 

The bold is you projecting what you'd like to be true. There's absolutely no way for you to know this.

 

The bold is also my opinion, not a projection.

[RedDenver]

5 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

The bold is also my opinion, not a projection.

Ok. What makes you think no prosecutor would take Reade's case? Seems like your main objection is that her story has changed. Do you think prosecutors would take no sexual assault cases if the victim's story had changed?

 

Edit: We could also move this discussion to another thread if we'd like to keep the election discussion more on point.

[teachercd]

Ohhhh are we still doing the "her story has changed" bit?

 

Okay...here we go again!

 

25 years ago...May 4th 1995:  Tell me everything you did that day and include what you were wearing and what those around you were wearing.  Go.

 

Her story changing is not really an issue assuming that most of the story stays the same.  If it went from "he touched my boobs" to "He had a gimp suit on and cuffed me to the bed while he stepped on hamsters" well, that is an issue.  

 

The fact that she told other people all those years ago tells you that "it" did happen.  

 

No one tells 3-4 people that something (probably bad) happened and then sits on it for 25 years as part of some master plan.

[BigRedBuster]

10 minutes ago, teachercd said:

Ohhhh are we still doing the "her story has changed" bit?

 

Okay...here we go again!

 

25 years ago...May 4th 1995:  Tell me everything you did that day and include what you were wearing and what those around you were wearing.  Go.

 

Her story changing is not really an issue assuming that most of the story stays the same.  If it went from "he touched my boobs" to "He had a gimp suit on and cuffed me to the bed while he stepped on hamsters" well, that is an issue.  

 

The fact that she told other people all those years ago tells you that "it" did happen.  

 

No one tells 3-4 people that something (probably bad) happened and then sits on it for 25 years as part of some master plan.

I'll admit that I haven't read every detail of this story line.  However, correct me if I'm wrong, but the important details of her accusations have changed over time.

 

Do I think he at least made her uncomfortable back then?  Sure....something at least that bad is true.  From there...I'm not so sure.

[teachercd]

5 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

I'll admit that I haven't read every detail of this story line.  However, correct me if I'm wrong, but the important details of her accusations have changed over time.

 

Do I think he at least made her uncomfortable back then?  Sure....something at least that bad is true.  From there...I'm not so sure.

I am not a psycho so I also have not read every detail of the story.

 

That is kind of what I think too...I think he made her feel creeped out.  I feel like this is more like one of those super creepy office things that happen...it is creepy and uncomfortable BUT not really like jail time stuff.

[FrantzHardySwag]

2 minutes ago, teachercd said:

Her story changing is not really an issue assuming that most of the story stays the same.

It is an issue, because the only evidence we have to go off of is her word. You can't say, "I filed a sexual harassment complainant with the senate", then when Biden calls the bluff to prove his side of the story, she says "okay I didn't use the term assault or sexual harassment, I maybe used the term uncomfortable". In your example you used an exact date, if we had an exact date to go off of, we could confirm Biden was in DC and  a possible interaction with Reade occurred, or he might have been in another freaking country. A lack of details, and a changing of details is a massive issue. It makes it impossible to corroborate her story, and it makes it impossible for Biden to clear his name.

[FrantzHardySwag]

Also, why is the Biden campaign the only people aggressively pushing for the release of these records.

 

[knapplc]

Just now, FrantzHardySwag said:

It is an issue, because the only evidence we have to go off of is her word. You can't say, "I filed a sexual harassment complainant with the senate", then when Biden calls the bluff to prove his side of the story, she says "okay I didn't use the term assault or sexual harassment, I maybe used the term uncomfortable". In your example you used an exact date, if we had an exact date to go off of, we could confirm Biden was in DC and  a possible interaction with Reade occurred, or he might have been in another freaking country. A lack of details, and a changing of details is a massive issue. It makes it impossible to corroborate her story, and it makes it impossible for Biden to clear his name.

 

And it's all coming out in an election year, with the bombshell announcement that it was not just that she felt like a "pretty ornament" or a "lamp," it's NOW that he assaulted her, and said something truly ugly to her AFTER he became the nominee.

 

Something that Biden has never been accused of in the past - in fact, he's been hailed as a champion of women's issues and had far more women in positions of power in his office than usual at the time of the alleged assault - and they all deny any knowledge of anything like this.

[RedDenver]

13 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

And it's all coming out in an election year, with the bombshell announcement that it was not just that she felt like a "pretty ornament" or a "lamp," it's NOW that he assaulted her, and said something truly ugly to her AFTER he became the nominee.

This isn't much of an argument anymore since her neighbor confirmed Reade told the sexual assault story back in 1996.

Quote

A former neighbor of Reade's named Lynda LaCasse told NPR on Wednesday about a conversation the two had approximately 25 years ago regarding the alleged assault.

 

LaCasse said she remembers stepping outside her home in California to sneak a cigarette away from her kids sometime in 1995 or early 1996, when she was joined by Reade on her front stoop. They were emotional, discussing custody issues and violence, and she recalls Reade then mentioning Biden, a man LaCasse was not particularly familiar with at the time.

 

"I do remember her telling me that Joe Biden had put her up against a wall and had put his hands up her skirt and had put his fingers inside her," LaCasse said. Reade, as detailed in a previous NPR report, has accused Biden of pinning her against a wall in the hallway of a Capitol Hill building and penetrating her vagina with his fingers in the spring of 1993.

 

[knapplc]

8 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

This isn't much of an argument anymore since her neighbor confirmed Reade told the sexual assault story back in 1996.

 

 

It's weird that she would tell this story to this neighbor, but she wouldn't tell this same story to any other source, or write that version in her blogs, not tell her friends, and not the reporter who interviewed her in 2019, nobody. That's the problem with having so many different versions of a story, especially when they're documented - you can go back and look at what was said. 

 

That recollection by the neighbor came after Reade changed her story to include the rape allegation last month. That also is unfortunate for the veracity of this corroboration.

[FrantzHardySwag]

4 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

It's weird that she would tell this story to this neighbor, but she wouldn't tell this same story to any other source, or write that version in her blogs, not tell her friends, and not the reporter who interviewed her in 2019, nobody. That's the problem with having so many different versions of a story, especially when they're documented - you can go back and look at what was said. 

 

That recollection by the neighbor came after Reade changed her story to include the rape allegation last month. That also is unfortunate for the veracity of this corroboration.

The neighbor also admitted that Reade called her "just recently" to remind her about the Biden thing, before she came out publicly. Not to mention another reporter called her brother and had him change his story after his interview with the Washington Post (he admitted it on twitter like an idiot). I don't think she should be completely dismissed, but there are massive read flags in the story, I think if we get her written senate complaint verified, or verified it doesn't exist, that would go a long ways.

[knapplc]

3 minutes ago, FrantzHardySwag said:

The neighbor also admitted that Reade called her "just recently" to remind her about the Biden thing, before she came out publicly. Not to mention another reporter called her brother and had him change his story after his interview with the Washington Post (he admitted it on twitter like an idiot). I don't think she should be completely dismissed, but there are massive read flags in the story, I think if we get her written senate complaint verified, or verified it doesn't exist, that would go a long ways.

 

I don't think she should be completely dismissed, and there's nothing exonerating for Biden in any of this, but I also think more time needs to be spent examining Reade's past. She's accused many men of harassment/assault, and to date I think none of those allegations has stuck. She's been accused of theft and fraud, she's moved a lot and changed her name several times. She has some really, um, interesting things in her blogs (that she has later deleted).

 

Think about the kind of person who would be most likely to participate in a fake like this.  She ticks a lot of those boxes.

[RedDenver]

39 minutes ago, knapplc said:

It's weird that she would tell this story to this neighbor, but she wouldn't tell this same story to any other source, or write that version in her blogs, not tell her friends, and not the reporter who interviewed her in 2019, nobody. That's the problem with having so many different versions of a story, especially when they're documented - you can go back and look at what was said. 

 

That recollection by the neighbor came after Reade changed her story to include the rape allegation last month. That also is unfortunate for the veracity of this corroboration.

I don't think it's weird she told a very personal story of sexual assault to some people and not others.

 

I agree that the different versions of the story make her claim harder to verify, but my post you were responding to was about the argument that this is just being brought up in 2020 or is just about Biden running for President. The neighbor's confirmation shows this goes back to at least 1996.