Gender/Transgender In The Military & In General

[Making Chimichangas]

I want to thank @Ric Flair.  Today I learned that threatening a trans person with physical violence, assault, and possibly even muder is exactly the same as asking a christian baker to bake a cake or a pizza.  Thanks Ric.  

[funhusker]

2 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

 

Tough call. Maybe the “other” restroom is the best solution? I have no idea. The beard/vagina combo makes it tough. 

I really don't think it is a "tough call".  I don't mean to be argumentative, and maybe because I'm a guy and don't really worry to much about my surroundings in the restroom.  But if someone is in a restroom, going to the restroom, I really don't care.  I'm sure there are people with penises that are drop dead gorgeous who would feel pretty uncomfortable in a "men's room" as well.  Let people go where they wish; if they cause a problem call the manager or police.  If a crime is committed, by all means prosecute them.  But that can happens in mens room with bearded men and little boys.

[Ric Flair]

1 minute ago, Making Chimichangas said:

I want to thank @Ric Flair.  Today I learned that threatening a trans person with physical violence, assault, and possibly even muder is exactly the same as asking a christian baker to bake a cake or a pizza.  Thanks Ric.  

 

That’s neither what I said nor a fair interpretation of what I said. When you engage in such ridiculous histrionics, you lose a lot of credibility.

[Ric Flair]

1 minute ago, funhusker said:

I really don't think it is a "tough call".  I don't mean to be argumentative, and maybe because I'm a guy and don't really worry to much about my surroundings in the restroom.  But if someone is in a restroom, going to the restroom, I really don't care.  I'm sure there are people with penises that are drop dead gorgeous who would feel pretty uncomfortable in a "men's room" as well.  Let people go where they wish; if they cause a problem call the manager or police.  If a crime is committed, by all means prosecute them.  But that can happens in mens room with bearded men and little boys.

 

I worry less about restrooms than locker rooms. Restrooms are far more private. And I worry far less about genuinely transgender people than about perverts pretending to be transgender in order to get access to a restroom or a locker room for whatever creepy nonsense they have planned. Most transgender people just want to be left alone. 

 

So let’s find a solution that we can all live with.

[funhusker]

3 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

 

I worry less about restrooms than locker rooms. Restrooms are far more private. And I worry far less about genuinely transgender people than about perverts pretending to be transgender in order to get access to a restroom or a locker room for whatever creepy nonsense they have planned. Most transgender people just want to be left alone. 

 

So let’s find a solution that we can all live with.

I think we already have it.  As Chimi has stated, that strategy is "mind your own business".  I know for a fact I have shared a locker room with a gay man.  He didn't masturbate while I showered, he didn't take pictures of me changing, and he didn't try to grope me.  Most likely because he was at the gym to work out and then shower before he went to work, not to creep on people.  

 

 

 

 

[Moiraine]

1 minute ago, funhusker said:

I think we already have it.  As Chimi has stated, that strategy is "mind your own business".  I know for a fact I have shared a locker room with a gay man.  He didn't masturbate while I showered, he didn't take pictures of me changing, and he didn't try to grope me.  Most likely because he was at the gym to work out and then shower before he went to work, not to creep on people. 

 

 

I would guess a gay man in a men's locker room would want to do everything humanly possible to make sure it doesn't look like they're looking.

[funhusker]

3 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

I would guess a gay man in a men's locker room would want to do everything humanly possible to make sure it doesn't look like they're looking.

Maybe I'm ugly?

 

or maybe because that is the normal way to act in a locker room?

[Landlord]

38 minutes ago, Making Chimichangas said:

 

No.  The solution is for people to mind their own business.  Stop worrying about me and live your own life.  I'm not here to intrude on your life christians, why are you so hell bent on intruding into mine (and others like me)? 

 

At this point, I'm not sure what is so difficult to understand about what I am saying.  Are you just bored?  Need someone to chat with?  Like seriously, I didn't think what I said was all that radical or difficult to understand.  But maybe it is. 

 

I agree with you. The solution is individual people changing and becoming fine with it. There isn't a legal solution that will fix this problem. That's the point I was trying to make that you weren't hearing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

27 minutes ago, Making Chimichangas said:

I want to thank @Ric Flair.  Today I learned that threatening a trans person with physical violence, assault, and possibly even muder is exactly the same as asking a christian baker to bake a cake or a pizza.  Thanks Ric.  

 

That's not what he said at all.

 

 

22 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

And I worry far less about genuinely transgender people than about perverts pretending to be transgender in order to get access to a restroom or a locker room for whatever creepy nonsense they have planned.

 

That, first of all, would be an arrestable crime, second of all would be no different than a pervert NOT pretending to be transgender, and third of all has no evidence to suggest it's at all a common risk. There's probably less likelihood of that happening than being struck by lightning.

[Ric Flair]

Just now, Landlord said:

 

That, first of all, would be an arrestable crime, second of all would be no different than a pervert NOT pretending to be transgender, and third of all has no evidence to suggest it's at all a common risk. There's probably less likelihood of that happening than being struck by lightning.

 

It may or not be a crime for a man let’s say to wander into a women’s or family locker room and ogle and harass women and children. If the law says we’re basing admission on self-defined gender identity, anyone who wants to can wander in and say he feels like a woman.

 

There have actually been at least a couple cases where that’s happened. I’m not worried about legitimately transgender people. I’m worried about perverts exploiting these laws to harass and even assault people.

 

https://www.dailywire.com/news/5190/5-times-transgender-men-abused-women-and-children-amanda-prestigiacomo

 

https://www.christianpost.com/news/planet-fitness-revokes-womans-membership-complaining-about-transgender-identified-man-locker-room-226193/

 

http://time.com/4324687/even-in-liberal-communities-transgender-bathroom-laws-worry-parents/

[Landlord]

5 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

 

It may or not be a crime for a man let’s say to wander into a women’s or family locker room and ogle and harass women and children. If the law says we’re basing admission on self-defined gender identity, anyone who wants to can wander in and say he feels like a woman.

 

There have actually been at least a couple cases where that’s happened. I’m not worried about legitimately transgender people. I’m worried about perverts exploiting these laws to harass and even assault people.

 

https://www.dailywire.com/news/5190/5-times-transgender-men-abused-women-and-children-amanda-prestigiacomo

 

https://www.christianpost.com/news/planet-fitness-revokes-womans-membership-complaining-about-transgender-identified-man-locker-room-226193/

 

http://time.com/4324687/even-in-liberal-communities-transgender-bathroom-laws-worry-parents/

 

 

 

There's no may or may not in that scenario. That is a crime. Whether the person is transgender or just saying they are. 

 

Of course there have been at least a couple cases where that's happened. So what? Falling coconuts kill 150 people every year. There have been at least a couple times that people have died from exploding whipped cream canisters. Quit regurgitating the hot take talking points and figure out some damn probability, assumed risk and perspective.

[Ric Flair]

4 minutes ago, Landlord said:

 

There's no may or may not in that scenario. That is a crime. Whether the person is transgender or just saying they are. 

 

Of course there have been at least a couple cases where that's happened. So what? Falling coconuts kill 150 people every year. There have been at least a couple times that people have died from exploding whipped cream canisters. Quit regurgitating the hot take talking points and figure out some damn probability, assumed risk and perspective.

 

I’m not claiming there’s some massive epidemic, just that letting people just pick the restroom or locker room they feel like can lead to issues. People tend to insist that concern is exaggerated or even made up, but there are at least some examples of real problems with it.

[Making Chimichangas]

11 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

There have actually been at least a couple cases where that’s happened. I’m not worried about legitimately transgender people. I’m worried about perverts exploiting these laws to harass and even assault people.

 

 

If someone has the intent to do something like that, no law is going to stop them. 

 

And to punitively, and pre-emptively, punish all trans people for crimes they haven't even committed is wrong.  Pre-emptively punishing any person, before any actual crime is committed, is wrong.

 

We have laws on the books prohibiting murder.  Guess what Ric, people still kill each other.  We have laws on the books saying it illegal to be drunk and drive, and yet people still get drunk and drive.

 

Ric, you may NOT be "worried" about trans people using the restroom of their identity, but PLENTY of other people are.  Let's not forget, that was a 12 year old girl on the receiving end of those threats.  If these people will threaten a 12 year old, what do you think they'd do to a trans woman who is an adult?

 

I have said this before and I will say it again: Straight, cis people DO NOT need protection from trans people or LBGTQIA people in general.  We need protection from them.  Protection under the law that will never happen in this current political climate.

 

Because apparently, someone's "faith", and their right to exercise that faith as a weapon, is far more important than my basic civil rights.

 

If tomorrow some trans woman gets her head bashed in, y'all will just sit there and passively say, "If only there was something we could have done to prevent this."

 

Me: But there is, you could...

 

You [Looking off into the distance]: If only there was SOMETHING we could have done...

 

I feel like I'm fighting an uphill battle here.  I feel like nobody who is cis or straight really gives a damn.  It is just so depressing...

 

 

[Ric Flair]

10 minutes ago, Making Chimichangas said:

 

 

If someone has the intent to do something like that, no law is going to stop them. 

 

And to punitively, and pre-emptively, punish all trans people for crimes they haven't even committed is wrong.  Pre-emptively punishing any person, before any actual crime is committed, is wrong.

 

We have laws on the books prohibiting murder.  Guess what Ric, people still kill each other.  We have laws on the books saying it illegal to be drunk and drive, and yet people still get drunk and drive.

 

Ric, you may NOT be "worried" about trans people using the restroom of their identity, but PLENTY of other people are.  Let's not forget, that was a 12 year old girl on the receiving end of those threats.  If these people will threaten a 12 year old, what do you think they'd do to a trans woman who is an adult?

 

I have said this before and I will say it again: Straight, cis people DO NOT need protection from trans people or LBGTQIA people in general.  We need protection from them.  Protection under the law that will never happen in this current political climate.

 

Because apparently, someone's "faith", and their right to exercise that faith as a weapon, is far more important than my basic civil rights.

 

If tomorrow some trans woman gets her head bashed in, y'all will just sit there and passively say, "If only there was something we could have done to prevent this."

 

Me: But there is, you could...

 

You [Looking off into the distance]: If only there was SOMETHING we could have done...

 

I feel like I'm fighting an uphill battle here.  I feel like nobody who is cis or straight really gives a damn.  It is just so depressing...

 

 

 

We all give a damn Chimi. That’s why we’re here talking about it and trying to figure it out.

[Landlord]

3 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

 

I’m not claiming there’s some massive epidemic, just that letting people just pick the restroom or locker room they feel like can lead to issues. People tend to insist that concern is exaggerated or even made up, but there are at least some examples of real problems with it.

 

But you are claiming that it's something you're concerned about, which I am claiming is a silly, trivial, nearly non-existent thing to waste any mental energy on. Every law and every stance held by anybody can lead to issues. 

 

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Making Chimichangas said:

If tomorrow some trans woman gets her head bashed in, y'all will just sit there and passively say, "If only there was something we could have done to prevent this."

 

 

Like what? You said it yourself...

 

3 hours ago, Making Chimichangas said:

If someone has the intent to do something like that, no law is going to stop them. 

[The Dude]

One time I took a s#!t in the ladies room at a Wal-Mart in Grand Island.