My Country tis of thee, sweet land of sensitivity

[knapplc]

I grew up in Lutheran churches my whole life. Not only are there no plaques/statues honoring Martin Luther in these churches, Martin Luther himself would be aghast that his descendants in the faith call themselves anything other than Christians. 

 

So yeah, it doesn't matter to me who founded that church. It's a church, its focus should be on God, period.  Anything else is idolatry.

[BigRedBuster]

4 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

A plaque honoring the President who helped found the church is socially unacceptable?

It's been pointed out that George Washington's plaque was not being moved because people were offended by it.

[B.B. Hemingway]

16 minutes ago, Landlord said:

Also B.B., I actually generally agree with you as far as coddling. I disagree with your conclusion that that is the extent of what liberals/academia/the elite/whoever the f#*k the "them" you're talking about is doing, but I agree that coddling is not helpful. Coddling is also not the same thing as compassion. Coddling isn't the same thing as empathy, and it isn't the same thing as tenderness and sensitivity. It's treating someone in an indulgent or overprotective way. Certainly we all do that sometimes, with our kids or our friends or whoever, and sometimes that's helpful (you certainly wouldn't put a rape victim in a room with her rapist to talk it out and suck it up right after she'd been raped, as an extreme example), but that's never the entire story. Cold, tough love is also never the entire story.

 

A buddy of mine posted this on facebook which I thought was interesting:

 

 

I would wholeheartedly agree with your friends approach to handling children, and people in general. It's more or less what I've been trying to get at,but explained it much more eloquently than I could.

 

And I can get behind what you're saying as well, admittedly I'm not a very compassionate person, probably to a fault (as I've admitted on here before).

[B.B. Hemingway]

1 minute ago, BigRedBuster said:

It's been pointed out that George Washington's plaque was not being moved because people were offended by it.

People were offended because he owned slaves. Isnt that the reason they gave?

[BigRedBuster]

3 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

 

So yeah, it doesn't matter to me who founded that church. It's a church, its focus should be on God, period.  Anything else is idolatry.

I agree.  

 

However, I can see having some small area of the church to display the interesting history with the historical past founders.  Not as a religious/worship thing.  But, more of a historical thing.

 

[Landlord]

3 minutes ago, knapplc said:

I grew up in Lutheran churches my whole life. Not only are there no plaques/statues honoring Martin Luther in these churches, Martin Luther himself would be aghast that his descendants in the faith call themselves anything other than Christians. 

 

So yeah, it doesn't matter to me who founded that church. It's a church, its focus should be on God, period.  Anything else is idolatry.

 

 

 

Yep. I've been in all manner of evangelical/protestant, catholic, and orthodox churches - have never seen anything like what's being described, and would be really confused if I did. The closest thing I can imagine is the depictions of saints, but that's hardly the same thing at all. 

[B.B. Hemingway]

15 minutes ago, knapplc said:

I grew up in Lutheran churches my whole life. Not only are there no plaques/statues honoring Martin Luther in these churches, Martin Luther himself would be aghast that his descendants in the faith call themselves anything other than Christians. 

 

So yeah, it doesn't matter to me who founded that church. It's a church, its focus should be on God, period.  Anything else is idolatry.

 

GW went to church in that ACTUAL building. His pew is still there.... There's a difference in that and your example imo.... I think it's kind of cool

Edited October 30, 2017 by B.B. Hemingway

[knapplc]

3 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

GW went to church in that ACTUAL building. His pew is still there.... There's a difference in that and you're example imo.... I think it's kind of cool

 

Quote

The plaques were hung on either side of the altar inside the church in 1870, shortly after Lee's death. There had been discussions about relocating the plaques in the past, for reasons that include their lack of religious purpose.

 

I mean... that's bizarre.  I have never seen that in a church, and if I went there I'd find it highly inappropriate. 

[Dbqgolfer]

8 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

GW went to church in that ACTUAL building. His pew is still there.... There's a difference in that and you're example imo.... I think it's kind of cool

I agree with you that it is cool, and would think that the church benefits from the fact that Washington and Lee worshipped there.  However, the church probably got this one right, by moving the memorials out of the sanctuary and to a different part of the church.  I would hope they would still somehow be able to show visitors where Washington sat.

[Landlord]

Here's part of a CNN article that makes this out to be the non-big deal that it actually is:

 

 

The plaques were hung on either side of the altar inside the church in 1870, shortly after Lee's death. There had been discussions about relocating the plaques in the past, for reasons that include their lack of religious purpose.

"After the events in Charlottesville, those conversations came more to the forefront, they became more intense," said Noelle York-Simmons, the Rector of Christ Church, a small colonial parish that was founded in 1773. "It became clear to the Vestry -- the governing body of the Church -- that we needed to take these conversations more seriously."

 

Because the plaques were installed as a pair, they're being removed as a pair as well.


Emily Bryan, Senior Warden of Christ Church, spoke to congregants about the decision to remove and relocate the plaques. In a copy of her speech obtained by CNN, Bryan told parishioners that "the plaques in our sanctuary make some in our presence feel unsafe or unwelcome" but Bryan also added that the plaques "will stay very prominently be displayed, in a place that will better tell our history."


A committee of parishioners will be formed soon and they'll decide the new location of the plaques sometime in the summer of 2018.


In addition to the two plaques, there are other markers sprinkled throughout the church honoring Washington and Lee, including markers for parish donations and for the pews where they sat during times of worship. None of those other markers are to be moved, York-Simmons said. "People can come visit, can sit where great people have sat in prayer. We have no intention of wanting to erase history or change history or pretend that history didn't happen. We're proud of it."

 

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/29/politics/church-plaques-washington-lee/index.html

 

Another good article - https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/social-issues/historic-alexandria-church-decides-to-remove-plaques-honoring-washington-lee/2017/10/28/97cb4cbc-bc1b-11e7-a908-a3470754bbb9_story.html?utm_term=.79bf091c37fc

 

 

Here's a picture of the sanctuary:

 

[B.B. Hemingway]

Admittedly, I should of took the time to read other new sources before posting. Given the news source I should of known better. The article I posted didn't mention moving them to another location on site (of course it wouldn't).

 

So, I overreacted. Sorry......

 

 

 

..... You're still a coddling, limp-wristed liberal (your words, not mine)

 

Edited October 30, 2017 by B.B. Hemingway

[Landlord]

11 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

Admittedly, I should of took the time to read other new sources before posting. Given the news source I should of known better. The article I posted didn't mention moving them to another location on site (of course it wouldn't).

 

 

 

Gotta call you out on this. From the article you posted...

 

 

Quote

Church leaders said they debated for a long time, and the Rev. Noelle York-Simmons, the rector, said in an email to The Washington Times that the vote by the vestry was unanimous. The plaques will come down by next summer, when leadership determines another place for them.

 

...


“The new display location will be determined by a parish committee. That location will provide a place for our parish to offer a fuller narrative of our rich history, including the influence of these two powerful men on our church and our country,” she said in the email.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Landlord

[B.B. Hemingway]

1 minute ago, Landlord said:

 

 

 

Gotta call you out on this. From the article you posted...

 

 

 

Misremembered?

[RedDenver]

21 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

Admittedly, I should of took the time to read other new sources before posting. Given the news source I should of known better. The article I posted didn't mention moving them to another location on site (of course it wouldn't).

 

So, I overreacted. Sorry......

 

 

 

..... You're still a coddling, limp-wristed liberal (your words, not mine)

 

It's all good. Part of why having these discussions is worthwhile.

[BigRedBuster]

23 hours ago, knapplc said:

I grew up in Lutheran churches my whole life. Not only are there no plaques/statues honoring Martin Luther in these churches, Martin Luther himself would be aghast that his descendants in the faith call themselves anything other than Christians. 

 

So yeah, it doesn't matter to me who founded that church. It's a church, its focus should be on God, period.  Anything else is idolatry.

On the 500th anniversary of what happened, I'll point out that it's interesting you say that while saying you grew up in a church that is named after the person who started it.....not God or Jesus.