If Frost is hired...recruiting

[Nebfanatic]

6 hours ago, KingBlank said:

No the exact opposite has been proven, and no I didn't happen

This is just wrong. Neither one was better than the other. Past the recruiting trail is a different story but MR and Bo were practically on the exact same level recruiting wise with an edge to Riley getting more talent on campus for a visit. Just because Riley wasn't successful here doesn't mean everything he did was garbage, some things he was average at just like Bo. 

 

29 minutes ago, HuskerPowerVA said:

Typically a coaching change will hurt a class, not always, but most often.  The fact the HC has been on his way out for most of the season hurt an already declining group.  Frost won't save much THIS year.  Next year and thereafter I would expect a huge gain in rankings.  

If by huge gains, you mean from this season specifically, sure. But Scott will have a hard time creating huge gains over Riley in general. Riley brought in the 23rd and 22nd ranked classes in his 2 normal recruiting cycles. Frost won't do much better than that until we start winning more ball games. It isn't a problem, we really need a coach who can just coach the talent on hand to potential because we always out talent the west. He will recruit on the high end of same level as we've been at (20-25) until he can show he can develop that talent into a winner. Like I said that is fine considering that will be good enough to make us far and away the most talented team in the West on paper. What I want to see from Frost is putting that talent to use. 

[HuskerPowerVA]

23 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

This is just wrong. Neither one was better than the other. Past the recruiting trail is a different story but MR and Bo were practically on the exact same level recruiting wise with an edge to Riley getting more talent on campus for a visit. Just because Riley wasn't successful here doesn't mean everything he did was garbage, some things he was average at just like Bo. 

 

If by huge gains, you mean from this season specifically, sure. But Scott will have a hard time creating huge gains over Riley in general. Riley brought in the 23rd and 22nd ranked classes in his 2 normal recruiting cycles. Frost won't do much better than that until we start winning more ball games. It isn't a problem, we really need a coach who can just coach the talent on hand to potential because we always out talent the west. He will recruit on the high end of same level as we've been at (20-25) until he can show he can develop that talent into a winner. Like I said that is fine considering that will be good enough to make us far and away the most talented team in the West on paper. What I want to see from Frost is putting that talent to use. 

How do you know Frost will not be able to have significant gains in recruiting with accolades and national exposure on both coasts?  He is the most sought after young coach on the market and kids (and their parents) will pay attention to that.  I am confident he will relate well to a young audience and impress parents with his values on education and respect.  Despite what people think, the talent at N does need to improve along with the coaching and culture.  Besides, this has as much to do with recruiting the right kids for his system.  I see a recruit class in the top 20 in 2019.  

[Nebfanatic]

4 minutes ago, HuskerPowerVA said:

How do you know Frost will not be able to have significant gains in recruiting with accolades and national exposure on both coasts?  He is the most sought after young coach on the market and kids (and their parents) will pay attention to that.  I am confident he will relate well to a young audience and impress parents with his values on education and respect.  Despite what people think, the talent at N does need to improve along with the coaching and culture.  Besides, this has as much to do with recruiting the right kids for his system.  I see a recruit class in the top 20 in 2019.  

We do need to improve talent to compete for playoff appearances but right now we do have enough talent to win the west with proper coaching plain and simple. When you out recruit your division opponents by an average of 20 spots every year you should be dominating or at least in the mix for your division. I think you are overestimating Frosts prowess. I hope you're right but I really don't see getting top 20 classes before we get results on the field. If you think recruiting the right kids for the system is the important thing I really don't know why you are expecting a top 20 class. Imo those are very high expectations and we should be more focused on how well he develops the talent and coaches up the team. Say what you want about our talent, but our problem is not talent at this point. Talent was an issue when we can't get over the hump and win the conference championship game. Now it's simply getting back to that point which is 100% coaching imo. Talent to compete and win our division is definitely there. 

[KingBlank]

49 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

This is just wrong. Neither one was better than the other. Past the recruiting trail is a different story but MR and Bo were practically on the exact same level recruiting wise with an edge to Riley getting more talent on campus for a visit. Just because Riley wasn't successful here doesn't mean everything he did was garbage, some things he was average at just like Bo. 

 

If by huge gains, you mean from this season specifically, sure. But Scott will have a hard time creating huge gains over Riley in general. Riley brought in the 23rd and 22nd ranked classes in his 2 normal recruiting cycles. Frost won't do much better than that until we start winning more ball games. It isn't a problem, we really need a coach who can just coach the talent on hand to potential because we always out talent the west. He will recruit on the high end of same level as we've been at (20-25) until he can show he can develop that talent into a winner. Like I said that is fine considering that will be good enough to make us far and away the most talented team in the West on paper. What I want to see from Frost is putting that talent to use. 

His last recruiting class was not ranked 22nd, he lost 4 kids right after signing day.  That class was closer to 34.  The mind games that guys can use to defend Rileys recruiting propaganda are awesome.  No Blades, No idiot from California, no Watts, and someone else.  Guys didn't make it here under Bo as well, but to just keep putting out the ridiculous notion that Riley was better then Bo is completely false, and you can clearly see it on the actual football field.

[Nebfanatic]

1 minute ago, KingBlank said:

His last recruiting class was not ranked 22nd, he lost 4 kids right after signing day.  That class was closer to 34.  The mind games that guys can use to defend Rileys recruiting propaganda are awesome.  No Blades, No idiot from California, no Watts, and someone else.  Guys didn't make it here under Bo as well, but to just keep putting out the ridiculous notion that Riley was better then Bo is completely false, and you can clearly see it on the actual football field.

It was just the 3 that left and Keyshawn very well may come back still, he has indicated as much. Im not trying to say Riley was better than Bo, but Bo was not better than Riley at recruiting either. I don't understand your last comment considering any upperclassmen out there aka the guys who should be leading the team are Bo's recruits. There's a combination of things at play, Riley has been bad at development, that I won't dispute. But as far as straight roster talent from recruiting we are in no better or worse position then when we hired Riley imo. We have promising young guys all over. Again the development of that talent appears to be subpar, but as far as aquiring talent, Bo was not better than Riley....and Riley wasn't better than Bo! They were practically the same in this category results wise. I gave an edge to Riley for more talent visiting, which is nice but at the end of the day didn't add to the final results for him. I would think success on the field coupled with more time likely would have brought fruit in that regard, but Riley stunk it up this year so he won't ever get that chance, which is fine because he doesn't deserve it. 

[HuskerPowerVA]

36 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

We do need to improve talent to compete for playoff appearances but right now we do have enough talent to win the west with proper coaching plain and simple. When you out recruit your division opponents by an average of 20 spots every year you should be dominating or at least in the mix for your division. I think you are overestimating Frosts prowess. I hope you're right but I really don't see getting top 20 classes before we get results on the field. If you think recruiting the right kids for the system is the important thing I really don't know why you are expecting a top 20 class. Imo those are very high expectations and we should be more focused on how well he develops the talent and coaches up the team. Say what you want about our talent, but our problem is not talent at this point. Talent was an issue when we can't get over the hump and win the conference championship game. Now it's simply getting back to that point which is 100% coaching imo. Talent to compete and win our division is definitely there. 

I think It is very one sided to think it is 100% coaching.  We have a tremendous deficit of talent on both lines.  When was our last top tier offensive linemen recruit?  Until that happens nothing else positive will really work. The inability to control the line of scrimmage will cancel out nearly everything else.

 

Every successful program recruits for their particular system and there are many different schemes in the top 20 each year.  While winning certainly attracts top tier talent, charisma and  in the living room does as well.  The chance to start right away certainly is something a Frost staff can also offer.  I expect to see a big jump in 2019.

 

 

[BigRedBuster]

1 minute ago, HuskerPowerVA said:

I think It is very one sided to think it is 100% coaching.  We have a tremendous deficit of talent on both lines.  When was our last top tier offensive linemen recruit?  Until that happens nothing else positive will really work. The inability to control the line of scrimmage will cancel out nearly everything else.

 

Disagree.  We have talent on both sides of the ball and even on the offensive line.  At least way better than the results we have seen on the field.

 

This staff has failed at developing that talent and putting them into position to succeed.  That has been happening for a long time on the O line and that's why people think we haven't received any top tier O line recruits.

 

I would argue that we have had a very good O lineman at every position this year.  But, the system they are working within and the coaching behind that is horrible.  That would make any player look bad.

[Nebfanatic]

4 minutes ago, HuskerPowerVA said:

I think It is very one sided to think it is 100% coaching.  We have a tremendous deficit of talent on both lines.  When was our last top tier offensive linemen recruit?  Until that happens nothing else positive will really work. The inability to control the line of scrimmage will cancel out nearly everything else.

 

Every successful program recruits for their particular system and there are many different schemes in the top 20 each year.  While winning certainly attracts top tier talent, charisma and  in the living room does as well.  The chance to start right away certainly is something a Frost staff can also offer.  I expect to see a big jump in 2019.

 

 

We signed a solid class of linemen in the 2017 class. Jaimes was a concensus 4 star. I think Frost could get us there but expecting a top 20 class in 2019 is asking for disappointment imo. 

[Nebfanatic]

2 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Disagree.  We have talent on both sides of the ball and even on the offensive line.  At least way better than the results we have seen on the field.

 

This staff has failed at developing that talent and putting them into position to succeed.  That has been happening for a long time on the O line and that's why people think we haven't received any top tier O line recruits.

 

I would argue that we have had a very good O lineman at every position this year.  But, the system they are working within and the coaching behind that is horrible.  That would make any player look bad.

100% agree. We don't have the talent to expect to beat OSU but we out talent our division by a fair enough margin a good coach should have us competing for a division crown in the last few weeka of the season 

[BigRedBuster]

1 minute ago, Nebfanatic said:

100% agree. We don't have the talent to expect to beat OSU but we out talent our division by a fair enough margin a good coach should have us competing for a division crown in the last few weeka of the season 

We might not have the talent to EXPECT to beat OSU.  But, we have enough talent to be competitive and actually look like we belong on the same field.  We also have enough talent to rise up every once in a while and knock them off.  It's been proven they were a beatable team this year.  No reason why we shouldn't have at least been competitive.

[Nebfanatic]

6 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

We might not have the talent to EXPECT to beat OSU.  But, we have enough talent to be competitive and actually look like we belong on the same field.  We also have enough talent to rise up every once in a while and knock them off.  It's been proven they were a beatable team this year.  No reason why we shouldn't have at least been competitive.

Yep I agree with that as well, I was just trying to place our talent level in a box or category. We have enough talent a good  coach will have the Huskers looking tough against nearly every opponent. 

[HuskerPowerVA]

4 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

We might not have the talent to EXPECT to beat OSU.  But, we have enough talent to be competitive and actually look like we belong on the same field.  We also have enough talent to rise up every once in a while and knock them off.  It's been proven they were a beatable team this year.  No reason why we shouldn't have at least been competitive.

I would categorize that as delusional if you think we have the talent to be ever beat OSU with the current roster.  I am unsure if people realize how much needs to change. 

[BigRedBuster]

16 minutes ago, HuskerPowerVA said:

I would categorize that as delusional if you think we have the talent to be ever beat OSU with the current roster.  I am unsure if people realize how much needs to change. 

 

The only reason you say that is because of how they have been playing.  It's like you can't fathom good football players playing poorly if they are coached poorly.

 

Also, you must have missed my point that I don't EXPECT them to beat OSU.  I expect them to be competitive.

 

Did you see how bad Iowa played the last two weeks?  Yeah....they killed OSU.

[HuskerPowerVA]

Just now, BigRedBuster said:

 

The only reason you say that is because of how they have been playing.  It's like you can't fathom good football players playing poorly if they are coached poorly.

 

Also, you must have missed my point that I don't EXPECT them to beat OSU.  I expect them to be competitive.

 

Did you see how bad Iowa played the last two weeks?  Yeah....they killed OSU.

I hear you man and cant argue against that.  We all want the same thing.  I just look at our linemen and I know they miss assignments and have poor synergy as a unit, but I also see overweight kids who do not look like third string of the Wisconsin kids.  

[BigRedBuster]

1 minute ago, HuskerPowerVA said:

 I just look at our linemen and I know they miss assignments and have poor synergy as a unit, but I also see overweight kids who do not look like third string of the Wisconsin kids.

There is one HELL of a lot of that....that is attributed to coaching, system and attitude (which comes from the coach and system).