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Bill Barr Assembles Team to Investigate Counterintel Probe Into Trump Campaign

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1 hour ago, schriznoeder said:

Honest question here... Why do so many people get so hellbent over the manner in which bad people get busted for doing bad things? 

 

I totally get how important due process is to our law enforcement system, but the whole “illegal FISA warrant” spiel is getting really old. Dozens of criminals have been indicted, prosecuted, put in jail, etc. because of Mueller's investigation. The country is now a safer place because of it. That should make everyone (regardless of political affiliation) happy, right?

 

Imagine if Adam Lanza had been pulled over for speeding due to a faulty radar gun on his way to shoot up up Sandy Hook Elementary, and was then arrested because the officer saw a gun in his back seat. The country would now be a safer place because of it. That should make everyone (regardless of political affiliation) happy, right? 

This post is too sensible.  

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2 hours ago, schriznoeder said:

Honest question here... Why do so many people get so hellbent over the manner in which bad people get busted for doing bad things? 

 

I totally get how important due process is to our law enforcement system, but the whole “illegal FISA warrant” spiel is getting really old. Dozens of criminals have been indicted, prosecuted, put in jail, etc. because of Mueller's investigation. The country is now a safer place because of it. That should make everyone (regardless of political affiliation) happy, right?

 

Imagine if Adam Lanza had been pulled over for speeding due to a faulty radar gun on his way to shoot up up Sandy Hook Elementary, and was then arrested because the officer saw a gun in his back seat. The country would now be a safer place because of it. That should make everyone (regardless of political affiliation) happy, right? 

 

Good post, but just a caveat to the bolded: the manner in which people get busted does matter. Ends don't always justify the means. Accused have rights, we have due process, we have 4th amendment protections, "fruit of the poisonous tree" arguments, and so forth. That is all constitutional stuff and foundational to our entire justice system. That is why Mueller worked so hard to do things by the book, and why the backlash from Trump and his ilk throughout the whole ordeal was so disgusting, because they are the ones who disregard the Constitution and insert chaos into the justice system.

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2 hours ago, schriznoeder said:

Honest question here... Why do so many people get so hellbent over the manner in which bad people get busted for doing bad things? 

 

I totally get how important due process is to our law enforcement system, but the whole “illegal FISA warrant” spiel is getting really old. Dozens of criminals have been indicted, prosecuted, put in jail, etc. because of Mueller's investigation. The country is now a safer place because of it. That should make everyone (regardless of political affiliation) happy, right?

 

Imagine if Adam Lanza had been pulled over for speeding due to a faulty radar gun on his way to shoot up up Sandy Hook Elementary, and was then arrested because the officer saw a gun in his back seat. The country would now be a safer place because of it. That should make everyone (regardless of political affiliation) happy, right? 

The manner in which law enforcement do their jobs is extremely important.  It's really at the foundation of protecting our freedom and rights that are spelled out in the constitution.  

 

So, are you saying that if the police went into a black neighborhood and stopped every car searched every one along with every pedestrian walking down the street and found a good number with illegal guns, drugs...etc, you would be fine with this because....hey....bad guys got caught?

 

This is the essence of why I was so frustrated with the mantra that Republicans took in the last election about supporting police.  I completely/100% support police that are doing their job right.  I don't support police that aren't.  However, Republicans acted like if you don't support police 100% no matter what.....then you're anti-American.  That's just wrong.  

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54 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

The manner in which law enforcement do their jobs is extremely important.  It's really at the foundation of protecting our freedom and rights that are spelled out in the constitution.  

 

So, are you saying that if the police went into a black neighborhood and stopped every car searched every one along with every pedestrian walking down the street and found a good number with illegal guns, drugs...etc, you would be fine with this because....hey....bad guys got caught?

 

This is the essence of why I was so frustrated with the mantra that Republicans took in the last election about supporting police.  I completely/100% support police that are doing their job right.  I don't support police that aren't.  However, Republicans acted like if you don't support police 100% no matter what.....then you're anti-American.  That's just wrong.  

Ummmmmm your example is kinda what happens a lot .....

 

I know, I exaggerate, but it does indeed happen exactly like you describe a lot more depending on the neighborhood make up and race (and income level)

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2 minutes ago, NM11046 said:

Ummmmmm your example is kinda what happens a lot .....

 

I know, I exaggerate, but it does indeed happen exactly like you describe a lot more depending on the neighborhood make up and race (and income level)

 

Yes, and a lot of people have a problem with cops doing that....as they should.

 

So, why is it OK then for law enforcement to not do things right when dealing with the other end of the income/power/race spectrum?

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14 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

Yes, and a lot of people have a problem with cops doing that....as they should.

 

So, why is it OK then for law enforcement to not do things right when dealing with the other end of the income/power/race spectrum?

 

1 hour ago, BigRedBuster said:

The manner in which law enforcement do their jobs is extremely important.  It's really at the foundation of protecting our freedom and rights that are spelled out in the constitution.  

 

So, are you saying that if the police went into a black neighborhood and stopped every car searched every one along with every pedestrian walking down the street and found a good number with illegal guns, drugs...etc, you would be fine with this because....hey....bad guys got caught?

 

This is the essence of why I was so frustrated with the mantra that Republicans took in the last election about supporting police.  I completely/100% support police that are doing their job right.  I don't support police that aren't.  However, Republicans acted like if you don't support police 100% no matter what.....then you're anti-American.  That's just wrong.  

 

15 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

Yes, and a lot of people have a problem with cops doing that....as they should.

 

So, why is it OK then for law enforcement to not do things right when dealing with the other end of the income/power/race spectrum?

No one cares when the FBI/cops railroad the criminal element. No it's not right but they get away with it on the grounds they use that power against the true bad guys.  But when they try their high pressure stuff on the duly elected President's circle people take notice.  Comey succeeded in flipping the base of support for law enforcement to become pissed off at the FBI.  If anything good comes out this, conservatives will stop saying "I trust the police."

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33 minutes ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

 

 

No one cares when the FBI/cops railroad the criminal element. No it's not right but they get away with it on the grounds they use that power against the true bad guys.  But when they try their high pressure stuff on the duly elected President's circle people take notice.  Comey succeeded in flipping the base of support for law enforcement to become pissed off at the FBI.  If anything good comes out this, conservatives will stop saying "I trust the police."

 

Fine, then you shouldn't have a problem with the Trump investigation.

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3 hours ago, Ulty said:

 

Good post, but just a caveat to the bolded: the manner in which people get busted does matter. Ends don't always justify the means. Accused have rights, we have due process, we have 4th amendment protections, "fruit of the poisonous tree" arguments, and so forth. That is all constitutional stuff and foundational to our entire justice system. That is why Mueller worked so hard to do things by the book, and why the backlash from Trump and his ilk throughout the whole ordeal was so disgusting, because they are the ones who disregard the Constitution and insert chaos into the justice system.

 

2 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

The manner in which law enforcement do their jobs is extremely important.  It's really at the foundation of protecting our freedom and rights that are spelled out in the constitution.  

 

So, are you saying that if the police went into a black neighborhood and stopped every car searched every one along with every pedestrian walking down the street and found a good number with illegal guns, drugs...etc, you would be fine with this because....hey....bad guys got caught?

 

This is the essence of why I was so frustrated with the mantra that Republicans took in the last election about supporting police.  I completely/100% support police that are doing their job right.  I don't support police that aren't.  However, Republicans acted like if you don't support police 100% no matter what.....then you're anti-American.  That's just wrong.  

 

I realize I'm walking a fine line here. I generally have a pretty black-and-white view when in comes to most issues. But sometimes, like in this case, things get a little fuzzy for me. Sometimes I really think the end does justify the means, especially like my Adam Lanza example. Ask me the same question tomorrow, and I might have a completely different answer. 

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6 hours ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

 

 

No one cares when the FBI/cops railroad the criminal element. No it's not right but they get away with it on the grounds they use that power against the true bad guys.  But when they try their high pressure stuff on the duly elected President's circle people take notice.  Comey succeeded in flipping the base of support for law enforcement to become pissed off at the FBI.  If anything good comes out this, conservatives will stop saying "I trust the police."

Wait a minute. Comey turned people against the FBI?

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On ‎5‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 1:22 PM, BigRedBuster said:

 

Fine, then you shouldn't have a problem with the Trump investigation.

 

I wonder who has a problem with the next round of Obama admin revelations.

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3 minutes ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

 

I wonder who has a problem with the next round of Obama admin revelations.

When was the first round?

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And Hitler said to Hermann Goring........                                                                           (Goring was Hitler's right hand man & enforcer and creator of the Gestapo)

https://apnews.com/9e926bfccb5947d5a5f8eb260cb0a7e6

Quote

 

President Donald Trump on Thursday granted Attorney General William Barr new powers to review and potentially release classified information related to the origins of the Russia investigation, a move aimed at accelerating Barr’s inquiry into whether U.S. officials improperly surveilled Trump’s 2016 campaign.

Trump directed the intelligence community to “quickly and fully cooperate” with Barr’s probe. The directive marked an escalation in Trump’s efforts to “investigate the investigators,” as he continues to try to undermine the findings of special counsel Robert Mueller’s probe amid mounting Democratic calls for impeachment proceedings.

Press secretary Sarah Sanders said in a statement that Trump is delegating to Barr the “full and complete authority” to declassify documents relating to the probe, which would ease his efforts to review the sensitive intelligence underpinnings of the investigation. Such an action could create fresh tensions within the FBI and other intelligence agencies, which have historically resisted such demands

 

.

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24 minutes ago, TGHusker said:

And Hitler said to Hermann Goring........                                                                           (Goring was Hitler's right hand man & enforcer and creator of the Gestapo)

https://apnews.com/9e926bfccb5947d5a5f8eb260cb0a7e6

.

Doesn't the Senate have authority over the powers granted to cabinet members?

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6 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

Doesn't the Senate have authority over the powers granted to cabinet members?

 

Good question. 

The Senate offers "advice and consent" to the President by a majority vote on the appointments of federal judges, ambassadors, and Cabinet positions. Treaties with other nations entered into by the President must be approved by a two-thirds vote by the Senate.

 

http://www.ushistory.org/gov/6a.asp

 

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R45442.pdf

  Congress’s Authority to Influence and Control Executive Branch Agencies The Constitution neither establishes administrative agencies nor explicitly prescribes the manner by which they may be created.Even so,the Supreme Court has generally recognized that Congress has broad constitutional authority to establish and shape the federal bureaucracy. Congress may use its Article I lawmaking powers to create federal agencies and individual offices within those agencies, design agencies’ basic structures and operations, and prescribe, subject to certain constitutional limitations,how those holding agency offices are appointed and removed.Congress also may enumerate the powers, duties, and functions to be exercised by agencies, as well as directly counteract, through later legislation, certain agency actions implementing delegated authority.The most potent tools of congressional control over agencies, including those addressing the structuring, empowering, regulating, and funding of agencies, typically require enactment of legislation. Such legislation must comport with constitutional requirements related to bicameralism (i.e., it must be approved by both houses of Congress) and presentment (i.e., it must be presented to the President for signature). The constitutional process to enact effective legislation requires the support of the House, Senate, and the President,unless the support in both houses is sufficient to override the President’s veto. There also are many non-statutory tools (i.e., tools not requiring legislative enactment to exercise) that may be used by the House, Senate, congressional committees, or individual Members of Congress to influence and control agency action. In some cases, non-statutory measures, such as impeachment and removal, Senate advice and consent to appointments or the ratification of treaties, and committee issuance of subpoenas, can impose legal consequences. Others, however, such as House resolutions of inquiry, may not be used to bind agencies or agency officials and rely for their effectiveness on their ability to persuade or influence

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This could very quickly become a deadly game they're playing. If assests inside Russia are revealed you think that Putin is just going to ask them to leave nicely?

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10 hours ago, funhusker said:

When was the first round?

 

 

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17 minutes ago, ZRod said:

This could very quickly become a deadly game they're playing. If assests inside Russia are revealed you think that Putin is just going to ask them to leave nicely?

seems he is willing to expose assets and but them at risk in order to save his own skin.  This is political hackmanship, revenge at its worse. 

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22 hours ago, ZRod said:

This could very quickly become a deadly game they're playing. If assests inside Russia are revealed you think that Putin is just going to ask them to leave nicely?

 

I don't see how the intelligence community including hopefully Haspel and Dan Coats go apes#!t on Barr and refuse his requests. They'd probably have to appeal to Trump about how dangerous it is to reveal sources publicly and if it didn't work I'd prefer they resign rather than complying.

 

Haspel reports directly to Coats and Coats as DNI directly to Trump. Barr has no actual authority over either of them other than this dumba#$ order from Trump.

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57 minutes ago, Danny Bateman said:

 

I don't see how the intelligence community including hopefully Haspel and Dan Coats go apes#!t on Barr and refuse his requests. They'd probably have to appeal to Trump about how dangerous it is to reveal sources publicly and if it didn't work I'd prefer they resign rather than complying.

 

Haspel reports directly to Coats and Coats as DNI directly to Trump. Barr has no actual authority over either of them other than this dumba#$ order from Trump.

Intelligence is done to better advise POTUS, something forgotten by Obama holdovers.  the President decides what is and isn't classified and if the officials don't like it they can resign and take it to CNN.

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59 minutes ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

Intelligence is done to better advise POTUS, something forgotten by Obama holdovers.  the President decides what is and isn't classified and if the officials don't like it they can resign and take it to CNN.

Yeah, no. That's now how any of this works...

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2 hours ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

Intelligence is done to better advise POTUS, something forgotten by Obama holdovers.  the President decides what is and isn't classified and if the officials don't like it they can resign and take it to CNN. 

 

I'm not going to line up and blindly pledge allegiance to an unstable moron who doesn't understand the implications of revealing sources, and they shouldn't either. But yeah, if he orders them to do something that is going to wreck our ability to gether intel and possibly get people killed, they should resign. I'm with you there.

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19 hours ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

Intelligence is done to better advise POTUS, something forgotten by Obama holdovers.  the President decides what is and isn't classified and if the officials don't like it they can resign and take it to CNN.

Intelligence is done to better serve America, something forgotten by both parties.

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On 5/25/2019 at 2:48 PM, Notre Dame Joe said:

Intelligence is done to better advise POTUS, something forgotten by Obama holdovers.  the President decides what is and isn't classified and if the officials don't like it they can resign and take it to CNN.

 

Sorry, I'm so sick and tired of this mantra.

 

The vast majority of these "Obama holdovers" worked tirelessly to keep this country safe under multiple Presidents because they don't have political allegiance in their job.  Trump has successfully convinced some Americans to disrespect and distrust our intelligence agencies while he sides with murderous dictators around the world.  

 

It completely baffles me how the Republican party members can be so brain washed by him.

 

 

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On 5/25/2019 at 2:48 PM, Notre Dame Joe said:

Intelligence is done to better advise POTUS, something forgotten by Obama holdovers.  the President decides what is and isn't classified and if the officials don't like it they can resign and take it to CNN.

 

I'll take American Intelligence agencies over Putin every day of the week. 

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On 5/17/2019 at 11:27 AM, BigRedBuster said:

 

This is the essence of why I was so frustrated with the mantra that Republicans took in the last election about supporting police.  I completely/100% support police that are doing their job right.  I don't support police that aren't.  However, Republicans acted like if you don't support police 100% no matter what.....then you're anti-American.  That's just wrong.  

 

I did find it interesting how a lot of Republicans suddenly decided that the FBI no longer counted as law enforcement when they began investigating Donald Trump & Co., and went on to throw the entire U.S. intelligence community under the bus as being stooges for the Democrats. 

 

Interesting too how it suddenly became anti-American to criticize Russia. 

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On 5/25/2019 at 12:48 PM, Notre Dame Joe said:

Intelligence is done to better advise POTUS, something forgotten by Obama holdovers.  the President decides what is and isn't classified and if the officials don't like it they can resign and take it to CNN.

 

You do know that the President is famous for not even reading his daily intelligence briefings, delivered by people with years of expertise and varied political leanings. 

 

Donald Trump will, however, run with whatever unfounded conspiracy theory he saw on Breitbart, InfoWars, Fox & Friends and Twitter. He will directly contradict his own Secretary-of-State and National Security Advisor, sometimes countering a statement issued on behalf of the White House that morning with a personal tweet the same afternoon. The President has also blabbed classified secrets to foreign leaders -- including military maneuvers -- unaware that they were classified or just bragging because he's the commander in chief. It's hard to tell with this utter buffoon. 

 

There are plenty of conservatives and intelligence personnel who really hate seeing the profession derided this way, not to mention the actual danger to America. Please quit defending this proven f#&%-up with lazy references to Obama and CNN. 

 

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3 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

I did find it interesting how a lot of Republicans suddenly decided that the FBI no longer counted as law enforcement when they began investigating Donald Trump & Co., and went on to throw the entire U.S. intelligence community under the bus as being stooges for the Democrats. 

 

Interesting too how it suddenly became anti-American to criticize Russia. 

yes, some pretty Orwellian crab being thrown around. 

 

3 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

You do know that the President is famous for not even reading his daily intelligence briefings, delivered by people with years of expertise and varied political leanings. 

 

Donald Trump will, however, run with whatever unfounded conspiracy theory he saw on Breitbart, InfoWars, Fox & Friends and Twitter. He will directly contradict his own Secretary-of-State and National Security Advisor, sometimes countering a statement issued on behalf of the White House that morning with a personal tweet the same afternoon. The President has also blabbed classified secrets to foreign leaders -- including military maneuvers -- unaware that they were classified or just bragging because he's the commander in chief. It's hard to tell with this utter buffoon. 

 

There are plenty of conservatives and intelligence personnel who really hate seeing the profession derided this way, not to mention the actual danger to America. Please quit defending this proven f#&%-up with lazy references to Obama and CNN. 

Spot on.  But in the Cult of Trump, they cannot see this. They don't see his buffoonness, his lack of restraint, common sense and general intelligence for the job.  Mesmerized by the MAGA mantra, they (Trump supporters) can only think on one frequency even when it is obvious to thinking Americans from Conservatives like me to liberals of all different stripes that Trump is a danger to our country.  He is paranoid, narcissistic and cannot be trusted - he will place himself and his brand first in all situations.  

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55 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

Go ahead, eye-roller. Tell me what in the above post isn't true. 

you made a series of unspecific charges without citing and ant leg.  I couldn't tell you what part of it is false.  So I will file it next to emoluments and Russian collusion.

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2 minutes ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

you made a series of unspecific charges without citing and ant leg.  I couldn't tell you what part of it is false.  So I will file it next to emoluments and Russian collusion.

 

 

Well, when he tweets things moments after they are mentioned on Fox and Friends even though the contradict his own intelligence community........it's pretty easy to see Guy's post is fairly accurate. 

 

But, I guess you probably don't realize that when you're watching Fox and Friends right along with him and believing what they are saying.

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5 minutes ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

you made a series of unspecific charges without citing and ant leg.  I couldn't tell you what part of it is false.  So I will file it next to emoluments and Russian collusion.

 

I'll make it easy for you, Joe. 

 

Google "Donald Trump" 

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19 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

 

Well, when he tweets things moments after they are mentioned on Fox and Friends even though the contradict his own intelligence community........it's pretty easy to see Guy's post is fairly accurate. 

 

But, I guess you probably don't realize that when you're watching Fox and Friends right along with him and believing what they are saying.

That's actually the opposite of what Guy alleged.  

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2 minutes ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

That's actually the opposite of what Guy alleged.  

 

How so?

 

4 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

Donald Trump will, however, run with whatever unfounded conspiracy theory he saw on Breitbart, InfoWars, Fox & Friends and Twitter. He will directly contradict his own Secretary-of-State and National Security Advisor, sometimes countering a statement issued on behalf of the White House that morning with a personal tweet the same afternoon.

 

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8 minutes ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

Well, actually Guy went in both directions.  I read that Trump contradicts his own intelligence and also blabs about it.

LINK

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2 hours ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

That's actually the opposite of what Guy alleged.  

 

No it's not.

 

Let's assume it will take me 5 to 10 minutes to pull up corroborating links from generally respected sources on everything I've alleged.

 

Is there any chance it would make you reconsider your defense of Donald Trump?  Because I could use those 5 minutes to do something else. 

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2 hours ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

Well, actually Guy went in both directions.  I read that Trump contradicts his own intelligence and also blabs about it.

 

How could that be both directions?  

 

You can have Trump contradict his own Secretary of State on Russia's intentions in Venezuela, as he did just a couple weeks ago, or Trump tweeting a totally different stance on North Korea than John Bolton issued just three days ago — Trump choosing to side with Chairman Kim instead. Tons more of those if you're interested.

 

You can also have Trump blabbing highly classified information on Syria to the Russian Ambassador and Foreign Minister, which infuriated Israel because it put their operatives at risk, or have him bragging about the nuclear subs he sent to North Korea in order to impress the President of the Philippines, which horrified the Pentagon, or even disclosing the location of a secret Navy Seal base when he publicized his own photo op. 

 

Why chose? It's lose/lose. 

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3 hours ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

Well, actually Guy went in both directions.  I read that Trump contradicts his own intelligence and also blabs about it.

 

 

It's... really not that difficult to do both. You can tell people what information you've heard without actually believing it. It's really not that complicated. You can also tell people a small portion of the information you've heard that you believe, while not believing the rest. You have to try hard to believe he didn't or can't do both of these things.

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8 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

If the intelligence was leaked early in 2017  then they would know what it is.  Did ISIS win in Syria because Trump spilled the beans?  Has anyone figured out why Comey is worried about declassification is he has "nothing to hide?"

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10 hours ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

If the intelligence was leaked early in 2017  then they would know what it is.  Did ISIS win in Syria because Trump spilled the beans?  Has anyone figured out why Comey is worried about declassification is he has "nothing to hide?"

 

People who understand intelligence, classified information protocol, and international relations far better than you or I agree that -- at best -- it's not Donald Trump's strong suit, and at worst he's a clueless loudmouth and liability. Your open ended questions don't really deflect from that. 

 

Also, please don't assume that people who have issues with Donald Trump will rush to the defense of James Comey. 

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6 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

People who understand intelligence, classified information protocol, and international relations far better than you or I agree that -- at best -- it's not Donald Trump's strong suit, and at worst he's a clueless loudmouth and liability. Your open ended questions don't really deflect from that. 

 

Also, please don't assume that people who have issues with Donald Trump will rush to the defense of James Comey. 

 

Trump has always used verbal jukes to confuse his enemies.  So posts that sound like "Trump just contradicted ________" are forgotten soon after reading. 

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16 minutes ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

 

Trump has always used verbal jukes to confuse his enemies.  So posts that sound like "Trump just contradicted ________" are forgotten soon after reading. 

Interesting term for a lie. 

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2 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Interesting term for a lie. 

 

It's the spoonful of sugar they tell themselves to make the medicine go down.

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35 minutes ago, Notre Dame Joe said:

 

Trump has always used verbal jukes to confuse his enemies.  So posts that sound like "Trump just contradicted ________" are forgotten soon after reading. 

 

Uhm....he's confusing his own Secretary of State, National Security Advisor, Press Secretary, and every other White House spokesperson he's appointed.


Are those his enemies?  Because they're the ones being thrown under the bus, not the media. 

 

Also "juke" infers agility and intent, and that's not likely the case here. 

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Wherein BIll Barr says he doesn't care what the public thinks of him because he's going to be dead soon anyway.

 

This is an overarching problem within the GOP that allows them collectively to do so much damage: A collective inability to feel shame.

 

And that line about hyper-partisanship is a bunch of crap. He's criticized for his conduct, plain and simple.

 

 

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I had a horrible thought today - what if Mitch McConnell died unexpectantly while in office - how much would that change things?  Does anyone else have the same lack of ethics or norms that would be able to stay the course he's outlined?

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