Progressive politics and where they go from here

[Archy1221]

16 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

You can post a link.

 

And his argument that tuition will never come down is separate from loan forgiveness. We can do more than one thing at a time. Loan forgiveness AND tuition cost reductions AND regulate lenders, etc.

It’s actually much more of an argument than that.  Facebook post so hope it’s comes across.  
 

look at the wealth of the Majority of people taking out the loans and the wealth of the institutions taking in most of the loans   THAT is the issue for most of us against debt forgiveness 

[RedDenver]

2 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

It’s actually much more of an argument than that.  Facebook post so hope it’s comes across.  
 

look at the wealth of the Majority of people taking out the loans and the wealth of the institutions taking in most of the loans   THAT is the issue for most of us against debt forgiveness 

It's reasonable to be upset about those with wealth getting a good deal, but in the case of the institutions - they've already gotten paid. The loans were taken in order to pay the universities at that time. So forgiveness is only about the people that have that debt. I think across the board forgiveness is the way to go for simplicity, but we can do wealth or income brackets for forgoveness if that's the sticking point.

 

If we don't do something about this now, I think we're going to see a retraction of the economy since the people in debt won't be able to afford things, especially large ticket items like cars and houses. I suspect once the older generation starts having trouble selling their houses, things will suddenly change. Or we'll have another recession or depression that will force things to change.

[Archy1221]

29 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

It's reasonable to be upset about those with wealth getting a good deal, but in the case of the institutions - they've already gotten paid. The loans were taken in order to pay the universities at that time. So forgiveness is only about the people that have that debt. I think across the board forgiveness is the way to go for simplicity, but we can do wealth or income brackets for forgoveness if that's the sticking point.

 

If we don't do something about this now, I think we're going to see a retraction of the economy since the people in debt won't be able to afford things, especially large ticket items like cars and houses. I suspect once the older generation starts having trouble selling their houses, things will suddenly change. Or we'll have another recession or depression that will force things to change.

Do you think the institutions should be liable to pay a good portion for the loan forgiveness back into the US treasury?  
 

After all, they were the ones who duped all these people into the loans for their product which turned out to be not good enough.  
 

Maybe the Institutions should have skin in the game and guarantee their customers a job after graduation with a salary level high enough to pay the loan along with a livable wage.  Otherwise, they wouldn’t eligible to accept US loans?   

[deedsker]

Biggest piece would be to make the loans forgivable and put the financial institutes on the hook for the loans. Having the federal government make these loans zero risk for financial institutions causes the money to get handed out like candy and learning institutions to accept all kinds of people. The competition to get these people leads to more and more fluff to entice kids versus the core learning aspects which likely varies less at credible colleges.

[RedDenver]

31 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Do you think the institutions should be liable to pay a good portion for the loan forgiveness back into the US treasury?  
 

After all, they were the ones who duped all these people into the loans for their product which turned out to be not good enough.  
 

Maybe the Institutions should have skin in the game and guarantee their customers a job after graduation with a salary level high enough to pay the loan along with a livable wage.  Otherwise, they wouldn’t eligible to accept US loans?   

I think we should fix that going forward, but many (most?) of the institutions we're talking about are state schools, so we'd just be bankrupting the states and/or state university systems to transfer the debt from the federal level, which makes no sense IMO.

 

And forcing tuition to match jobs has unintended side-effects like eliminating types of learning we might want in our society like teachers, artists, etc.

[Archy1221]

14 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

I think we should fix that going forward, but many (most?) of the institutions we're talking about are state schools, so we'd just be bankrupting the states and/or state university systems to transfer the debt from the federal level, which makes no sense IMO.

 

And forcing tuition to match jobs has unintended side-effects like eliminating types of learning we might want in our society like teachers, artists, etc.

Many/most of the large student loan debt balances belong to people who enrolled at private institutions or graduate programs.  State school undergraduate programs are not the worst offenders 

[RedDenver]

1 hour ago, Archy1221 said:

Many/most of the large student loan debt balances belong to people who enrolled at private institutions or graduate programs.  State school undergraduate programs are not the worst offenders 

Do you have data to support this?

[Archy1221]

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/12/the-college-debt-debate-is-a-culture-war-battle/?utm_source=recirc-desktop&utm_medium=blog-post&utm_campaign=river&utm_content=most-popular&utm_term=fifth&fbclid=IwAR1SooI0XCWN5uBnZfPEgxmfuw1r3WLfAlrJMj7a5U8Dn1xb6VYL_h1bGrQ

[RedDenver]

25 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/12/the-college-debt-debate-is-a-culture-war-battle/?utm_source=recirc-desktop&utm_medium=blog-post&utm_campaign=river&utm_content=most-popular&utm_term=fifth&fbclid=IwAR1SooI0XCWN5uBnZfPEgxmfuw1r3WLfAlrJMj7a5U8Dn1xb6VYL_h1bGrQ

There's no data in that article. It's an opinion piece citing other opinion pieces without any data to back up the claims.

[Archy1221]

20 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

There's no data in that article. It's an opinion piece citing other opinion pieces without any data to back up the claims.

It’s a piece that takes data from NYT

[DevoHusker]

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/most-debt

 

7 of the top 10 are public institutions. 

[Archy1221]

31 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

There's no data in that article. It's an opinion piece citing other opinion pieces without any data to back up the claims.

https://www.brookings.edu/policy2020/votervital/who-owes-all-that-student-debt-and-whod-benefit-if-it-were-forgiven/

[Archy1221]

11 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/most-debt

 

7 of the top 10 are public institutions. 

Interesting.   same news org here 
 

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/the-short-list-college/articles/colleges-where-graduates-have-the-most-debt

 

[DevoHusker]

19 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Interesting.   same news org here 
 

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/the-short-list-college/articles/colleges-where-graduates-have-the-most-debt

 

 

It is interesting, but I think we were looking at two different parts of the problem.

 

My list was ranked by order of debt load across the student body; ie 70% of the students had college debt at Jackson State. 

Below is a list of schools whose 2018 graduates had the heaviest debt loads. The data is of loans owned by the U.S. Department of Education – the vast majority of student loans.

 

Your list is by cost of debt (individual) for those who took out loans. 

Below is a list of the 10 colleges where 2018 graduates who took out loans for school had the highest average debt load.

[DevoHusker]