Economy

[BigRedBuster]

1 minute ago, Born N Bled Red said:

 

The truth about wages is that every employer's starting wage will be only enough to entice employees to work for them over others, not necessarily what the employees are worth or the value of their efforts to the company. 

 

 

And?  You think criticizing a business owner without knowing any specifics around the job, business, profitability of the business...etc. is an accurate way to discuss this?

[Born N Bled Red]

2 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

And?  You think criticizing a business owner without knowing any specifics around the job, business, profitability of the business...etc. is an accurate way to discuss this?

 

Do you work for $15 / hr?

 

[BigRedBuster]

2 minutes ago, Born N Bled Red said:

 

Do you work for $15 / hr?

 

No, but I've worked for a lot less.  But, why does that matter in this discussion?

[JJ Husker]

8 minutes ago, Born N Bled Red said:

 

Do you work for $15 / hr?

 

Not every job has to pay enough to raise a family on. Not every job can pay enough to raise a family. Lots of jobs have higher turnover and require less skill and knowledge. Some jobs need to exist in this area, just like some jobs need to be designed for teens, first jobs, and entry level.

 

So tired of people pretending burger flipping at MacDonalds needs to pay enough to support a family. When a happy meal costs $20, then how much are we going to have to pay people? Fact is, the lowest paid workers will always be the lowest paid and struggling to make ends meet. It doesn't matter if they're being paid $15 or $20 or $25, their cost of living will be soon to increase and then people who don't understand how these things work will be clamoring for $30-$35-$40 per hour. Rinse and repeat.

[Born N Bled Red]

2 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

No, but I've worked for a lot less.  But, why does that matter in this discussion?

 

Look I appreciate your defense of a $15/ hr starting wage as it is generally as it's pretty close to Average (though slightly below) in Nebraska. Meaning there are a lot of jobs that pay worse. https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Hourly-Salary--in-Nebraska

 

I also appreciate your defense of B.B. Hemmingway. Clearly you feel I unfairly called him out. My comment was on the wage he presented, not his business in specifics, though I can see how it could be read that way. 

 

That being said, when I was 20 years old, working for $15/ hour part-time in hog confinements working my way though college, I felt it was a fair wage given the part time nature of the work and the skills necessary to complete the job. It certainly would not have been a wage I could have afforded to work for, if I had say gotten a girl pregnant at senior prom and entered the workforce fulltime rather than go to college. That was nearly 20 years ago. Adjusted for inflation, that same $15 an hour, which was fair in 2004, would need to be $21.21 now to equal the same value for the same work. https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/2004?amount=15 

 

So tell me, use the inflation calculator I've linked here, put in your hourly wage, the year you worked for that wage, and todays year. Did you really work for less than $15/ hr?

[BigRedBuster]

Just now, Born N Bled Red said:

I also appreciate your defense of B.B. Hemmingway. Clearly you feel I unfairly called him out. My comment was on the wage he presented, not his business in specifics, though I can see how it could be read that way. 

You have absolutely no grounds for criticizing a business for paying $15 per hour without knowing the specifics around that business.

 

Let's say I'm going to open up a restaurant and, looking at all my projections and not even figuring me taking very much home, all I can pay is part time HS help $10 per hour.  Are you telling me I'm horrible for even thinking about doing that?

 

 

[JJ Husker]

You can throw that inflation calculator out the window if you are proposing the lowest level jobs need to be paying $21.21 per hour. Inflationary costs would be much higher and everyone’s cost of living would increase even more. Who would that impact the most? That’s right, still the lowest paid workers. Only then we might also be dealing with fewer jobs and higher unemployment. 
 

I can’t just decide I want/need to pay my people more and do it. Sales would decline and eventually I may have no jobs to offer. The jobs I have are not in the $15/hr range, more like $20 to $30. At $20 to $30, they are not exactly financially independent or without money concerns.  I would love to pay my people even more but it’s also beneficial that I have at least some jobs to offer. We have to be a little careful as to what we propose. There are ramifications that ripple across the entire economy.

[Born N Bled Red]

Just now, BigRedBuster said:

You have absolutely no grounds for criticizing a business for paying $15 per hour without knowing the specifics around that business.

 

Let's say I'm going to open up a restaurant and, looking at all my projections and not even figuring me taking very much home, all I can pay is part time HS help $10 per hour.  Are you telling me I'm horrible for even thinking about doing that?

 

 

 

Having worked in the restaurant industry in the last 10 years, 1) you're not going to get part-time high school help; 2) you won't be able to keep a cook at that wage (maybe a felon, ex con, or drug addict that can keep it straight for a bit, if you're lucky) 3) That's be a damn good wage for tipped waitstaff and bartenders. 

[BigRedBuster]

19 minutes ago, Born N Bled Red said:

So tell me, use the inflation calculator I've linked here, put in your hourly wage, the year you worked for that wage, and todays year. Did you really work for less than $15/ hr?

Yes, it came out to $14.10.  $6 per hour in 1987.

 

I was going to college full time while working full time.  

 

Again....what does this have to do with this discussion?

[BigRedBuster]

2 minutes ago, Born N Bled Red said:

 

Having worked in the restaurant industry in the last 10 years, 1) you're not going to get part-time high school help; 2) you won't be able to keep a cook at that wage (maybe a felon, ex con, or drug addict that can keep it straight for a bit, if you're lucky) 3) That's be a damn good wage for tipped waitstaff and bartenders. 

You basically nullified the first two with #3.  And, I didn't say I was paying the cook that.

 

So, you're saying that the market automatically adjusted my projections so that I had to pay more.  Interesting.

[JJ Husker]

This issue is also exacerbated by so many of our jobs existing in the service industry. As an example, look at all the coffee shops that are every 3 blocks no matter which way you go. At what point do they cease to exist? $15 per hour, $20/hr....$25? At some point people won’t be able to afford or won’t want to spend $8...$10...$12....$15 for some fancy coffee.

 

IMO, too much of our economy is dependent on these service type jobs. We can’t simply decide that these people need $21.21 per hour to make ends meet. Their jobs will disappear and their cost of living will increase, requiring even higher wages.

[Born N Bled Red]

Just now, BigRedBuster said:

You basically nullified the first two with #3.  And, I didn't say I was paying the cook that.

 

So, you're saying that the market automatically adjusted my projections so that I had to pay more.  Interesting.

 

High schoolers don't work any more, sorry, but its the truth. Try finding a babysitter let alone hiring one for a job. A cook won't work for that much, and 3) the $10 an hour wage for tipped staff doesn't account for the totality of the compensation, so no it does no such thing as nullify the first 2. 

 

Secondly, you bet the market dictated that you needed to increase your expected wages. Just like it is doing all across the country right now. However now all we hear is about is unemployment ruining the job market. Funny how "the market" is amazing until the people in power/ with wealth are the ones who lose due to "the market." 

 

 

[BigRedBuster]

7 minutes ago, Born N Bled Red said:

Secondly, you bet the market dictated that you needed to increase your expected wages. Just like it is doing all across the country right now. However now all we hear is about is unemployment ruining the job market. Funny how "the market" is amazing until the people in power/ with wealth are the ones who lose due to "the market." 

Unemployment is not the labor market.  A mom and pop restaurant shouldn't have to compete with government payements.

[BigRedBuster]

9 minutes ago, JJ Husker said:

This issue is also exacerbated by so many of our jobs existing in the service industry. As an example, look at all the coffee shops that are every 3 blocks no matter which way you go. At what point do they cease to exist? $15 per hour, $20/hr....$25? At some point people won’t be able to afford or won’t want to spend $8...$10...$12....$15 for some fancy coffee.

 

IMO, too much of our economy is dependent on these service type jobs. We can’t simply decide that these people need $21.21 per hour to make ends meet. Their jobs will disappear and their cost of living will increase, requiring even higher wages.

Well, if the job disappears, I guess we won't hear people complaining about them being paid $15 per hour.

[knapplc]