Who left the biggest black eye on the Program?

[junior4949]

I picked LP because of the national exposure it gave us. If the question would have been worded who nearly killed Nebraska football, I would have said either Pud or Clownahan. Thunder's an idiot, but he never really did much while playing for Nebraska. The biggest impact he had was all the hype he came in with. Beyond that, he didn't do jack. I'd bet a lot of college football fans out there don't even know who he is or who he played for because of how little he did. LP had everything, and he threw it all away. He kind of reminds me of Mike Tyson. LP was the biggest black eye on the program by far. Pud and Clownahan were simply incompetent.

[sd'sker]

Pedey? Really? Let's look at the last 8 years of Nebraska football.

 

2002: 7-7

2003: 10-3

2004: 5-6

2005: 8-4

2006: 9-5

2007: 5-7

2008: 9-5

2009: 10-4

 

The bolded years obviously occurred after SP was fired.

 

Where is the black eye? I don't see it.

 

I just don't see where in this run we have been so outstandingly bad that it was a black eye left on the program. Yeah, we had some tough years where we barely dipped under .500. So?! This happens to every program. Alabama, USC, Texas. They've ALL been through worse stretches. It's hard staying at the top, at the high level we did under Devaney/Osborne for so long. Sooner or later, you run into bumps and lulls and bad seasons. Honestly, we didn't do so badly.

 

And for a "huge black eye" that left our program in tatters, we sure bounced back quickly. If SP really left us in such a disastrous state, we have no business being so optimistic just one year, two years later. It's not like he purposely tried to destroy the program either. He tried to make his mark and his style for what he thought was best, didn't work out here. Failure is common at this level and his was by no means epic or un-recoverable.

 

LP is an extraordinarily bad case of a "trouble athlete" - not that we made him that way, but his undeniable association with the program gives us a bad name. As skersfan has said, nobody really cares about Steve Pederson.

 

You don't get it...it is deeper then a win/loss record. We scrapped the walk-on program, they took down all of the old pictures in the locker room, they didn't allow the former players on the field anymore...Pederson turned it into a business. I remember I used to be able to go out on the field and just throw the football around with friends and I wasn't a student. The family atmosphere, the culture, everything was being wiped away. Thank God for Bo and Tom.

but a black eye involves the public perception, you don't get it. Pederson may have hurt our traditions, but that only upsets the fans, the hardcore fans at that. we have are are rebounding from what Pederson did. Phillips took away our moral superiority and high ground over schools on the national stage, now we are no better than the worse of Miami (according to public perception) because of phillips. someone also mentions the Peters brothers, they should also be in this discussion. winning is big, but winning with a clean team is much more important, and phillips left a stain his national championship team and even Osborne.

 

I do not even know why Callahan would be in this discussion, he was just a bad college coach, nothing more or less and wins will wash away his memory.

 

Actually I do get it...I voted for LP. In an earlier post I had, I was saying if Pederson continued on his course then it would have been way worse since fans would stop supporting the program which makes us lose money, we would have a heck of time recruiting players to come here, and we would be a once proud program that lost its way (heck the media already had us written off in those short 4 years). When an idiot is in power...he can do a great amount of damage. Just look at history. The reason I didn't vote for Pederson is because he was stopped and now we are back on course. Just ask Bo about the division in the fan base and culture when he took over...he has said it was almost broken. All I was saying was don't just look at it like Pederson and Callahan were just bad at their jobs. But I get the whole "black eye" deal which is why I voted for LP. Some people just can't see past today and get the big picture, I guess.

i know what you are saying, i was even starting to wonder how long our great record of consecutive sellouts would last. i fully understand what pederson's arrogance did to the program and what he was capable of doing if he had stayed, but we were still getting decent recruits, and callahan was still getting recruits and propagating the myth that were would be there in just a year.

 

scrapping our history and tradition is a slap in the face to the fan base, phillips was a black eye to the program.

 

pederson was just annoying and if we continued to be competetive in the north, people wouldn't have cared so much. i just don't think pederson's damage extended past memorial stadium, nebraskans want a winning program and would still give to create the best opportunity to win, regardless of what the program was working with at the time.

 

Well said...I thought we might lose the consecutive sellouts pretty soon. I noticed during some games at that time, there would be a lot of empty seats from people leaving early. But like you said the damage was contained and the fact that nobody even knows who Pederson is means you probably can't count him. Heck I was talking to some people and they didn't even know who Callahan was...LSU fans though.

 

The bolded part though...would the big boosters keep supporting the program though? I mean at some point you would think they would get tired of supporting a regime that showed no heart or consistency, right?

i think they would stop giving, but i hate to say it. it is hard to say because the nebraska football program is something special, it is all the state has and it brings the state together, where else would people with big pockets empty them? it would have been interesting to see the boosters breaking point, and maybe we did and that was why pederson was pushed out for TO to step in, his most important role is instilling confidence in those with their hands on the purse strings.

[carlfense]

I can't believe this is even a question. I think it should be Lawrence Phillips and it isn't even close. In ten years the only people who will remember Callahan and Pedersen are Nebraska fans. Even 20 years from now fans of other schools will still remember Lawrence Phillips. The terrible things Phillips has done far overshadow a coach and an AD who ran a clean, if mediocre, program.

[sd'sker]

I can't believe this is even a question. I think it should be Lawrence Phillips and it isn't even close. In ten years the only people who will remember Callahan and Pedersen are Nebraska fans. Even 20 years from now fans of other schools will still remember Lawrence Phillips. The terrible things Phillips has done far overshadow a coach and an AD who ran a clean, if mediocre, program.

generally, the topics i believe deserve the least amount of discussion, i post the most on.

[huzkerbob]

I don't see how a PR nigh mare like LP should be considered a bigger stain than an administration that nearly tore the whole program apart. To me that's like saying a bad hair day is as bad as having cancer. Sure one makes you look bad, and may turn a few people off. But cancer will kill you from the inside, which is exactly what SP was doing as AD.

 

Also if I remember correctly NU didn't start to fall off the face of the map when LP went to jail did they? No it took a concerned effort by those inside NU's admin to tear down the culture of NU football. The way I see it, LP's only impact was one of perception. Where as SP made tangible changes that directly impacted NU in a negative way. IMO actual damage is far worse than perceived damage.

[knapplc]

I don't see how a PR nigh mare like LP should be considered a bigger stain than an administration that nearly tore the whole program apart. To me that's like saying a bad hair day is as bad as having cancer. Sure one makes you look bad, and may turn a few people off. But cancer will kill you from the inside, which is exactly what SP was doing as AD.

 

Also if I remember correctly NU didn't start to fall off the face of the map when LP went to jail did they? No it took a concerned effort by those inside NU's admin to tear down the culture of NU football. The way I see it, LP's only impact was one of perception. Where as SP made tangible changes that directly impacted NU in a negative way. IMO actual damage is far worse than perceived damage.

You'll see in two years when Nebraska has returned to prominence, routinely vying for Big XII Championships and jockeying for the best BCS bowl berths and people barely remember the Steve Pederson era, or if they do it's just a pothole in an otherwise yellow brick road, and yet Lawrence Phillips gets brought up again and again and again and again by Husker fans, not to mention being used as a weapon in any war of words by any opponent's fans.

 

Everybody goes through tough times in college football. Nobody cares that some AD came in and was a bad fit for the job. What people care about is the overall characterization of your program. Pederson cost us in the W column. Phillips cost us in the court of public opinion.

[huzkerbob]

 

You'll see in two years when Nebraska has returned to prominence, routinely vying for Big XII Championships and jockeying for the best BCS bowl berths and people barely remember the Steve Pederson era, or if they do it's just a pothole in an otherwise yellow brick road, and yet Lawrence Phillips gets brought up again and again and again and again by Husker fans, not to mention being used as a weapon in any war of words by any opponent's fans.

 

Everybody goes through tough times in college football. Nobody cares that some AD came in and was a bad fit for the job. What people care about is the overall characterization of your program. Pederson cost us in the W column. Phillips cost us in the court of public opinion.

 

Yes, but that only reinforces my opinion that it's the actual damage done that should matter the most. Sure there will always be people who bring up the LP incident over and over and over again, but most of the people who do that are people who already had an axe to grind with NU football. So all the LP fiasco really did was give more ammunition to those Husker haters that had a poor opinion of the program to begin with. If you ask me that's no real loss at all.

[knapplc]

Yes, but that only reinforces my opinion that it's the actual damage done that should matter the most. Sure there will always be people who bring up the LP incident over and over and over again, but most of the people who do that are people who already had an axe to grind with NU football. So all the LP fiasco really did was give more ammunition to those Husker haters that had a poor opinion of the program to begin with. If you ask me that's no real loss at all.

 

I think losing prestige on a national level in the eyes of everyone from football fans to media to recruits is tremendously damaging, to all levels of the program. People are far more forgiving of a bad fit at AD than they are harboring criminals who beat women. That's the real damage.

[carlfense]

Yes, but that only reinforces my opinion that it's the actual damage done that should matter the most. Sure there will always be people who bring up the LP incident over and over and over again, but most of the people who do that are people who already had an axe to grind with NU football. So all the LP fiasco really did was give more ammunition to those Husker haters that had a poor opinion of the program to begin with. If you ask me that's no real loss at all.

 

I think losing prestige on a national level in the eyes of everyone from football fans to media to recruits is tremendously damaging, to all levels of the program. People are far more forgiving of a bad fit at AD than they are harboring criminals who beat women. That's the real damage.

Nailed it. Callahan and Pedersen's stain can be washed away with a few successful seasons. The haunting memory of Phillips will always be associated with Nebraska . . . and unfortunately (and probably unfairly) . . . specifically associated with our 95 national title and Tom Osborne.

[Captain K]

Ok, you have five seconds to name a college football player, not from NU, that was thrown off his team for a sex crime, rape, molestation or harassment. I guarantee you had to look it up. I see it happen all of the time and it gets mentioned on ESPN, but I can't remember the schools or the named players. I also believe you still don't hold it against that school, unless they beat us in several bowl games. If you go to the Devaney to B-ball games, how much time do you spend cat-calling Baylor when they are in town? I think we feel people remember the name Lawrence Phillips more than we think. We're Nebraska-centric, sure, we can't forget, but your average college football fan doesn't remember him anymore than you remember the one from their school.

 

As for referring to Pedey as just a bad fit, that is glossing things over a bit. I wonder if Poland referred to Hitler as a bad fit? We were in need of a new coach about as much as Poland wanted a new dictator. It is not like our coach quit and we were forced to hire someone. We went 10-3 and had a coach who would have stayed for years and had given his entire coaching career to NU. SP pulled the plug on him and didn't have anyone else lined up. He had no plan! Just fire this guy and hope it works out. At least LP's act was of a person who was clearly not thinking rationally. LP acted out of rage and probably couldn't think straight if he wanted to at the time, how else do you try to kill 3 kids over a pick up football game? He was as clear headed as that Iowa State rb that leaped off that bridge. SP's acts were premeditated. He is a smart guy who should have known better.

 

Another thing people have used in there LP was worse argument is that now that we are winners again, it will all be forgotten. No one is calling us an elite program again yet and if BP leaves after another year, we will probably have a hard time getting a top flight coach here. It will be another "hit or miss" up and comer. It isn't all about wins and losses, but our entire athletic department and it's success feeds off of what SP's stupidity tried to kill.

 

This whole argument is apples and oranges and can't be won by either side. It is really hard to even define what is a black eye. ABC doesn't fail to televise us nationally because LP dragged a girl down stairs or tried to run over a kid with a car, but if we are 5-6 they do. Bowl games can't even put us in their game with that record. Those things are what pay the bills. People like to see the baseball team make a run at Omaha. We are a crappy football team away from being Iowa State and not fielding a baseball team.

 

If a drunk KSU fan yelling "hey, you got any criminal running backs you can trot out there to run for 200 yards" is more hurtful to you than the possibility of financial trouble to our athletic program, you need to get a thicker skin.

[knapplc]

I think we feel people remember the name Lawrence Phillips more than we think. We're Nebraska-centric, sure, we can't forget, but your average college football fan doesn't remember him anymore than you remember the one from their school.

Speak for yourself, Mr. Nebraska-centric. I've spent time on a LOT of message boards. Lawrence Phillips is still associated with Nebraska by fans old enough to remember his name 14 years after he played for us. Two years after Pedey's departure, nobody even knows who he is. It's not even close out there in the real world.

 

Go hang out on ESPN's boards, Yahoo's comments sections, CBS' boards, or Rivals or anywhere that college football is discussed and you'll see a Lawrence Phillips comment made frequently when a Husker fan is involved in a heated argument. It's still the go-to "slam" people toss out there. Failing to see how that affects this program's image and the damage his association with our school has done is myopic.

 

 

This whole argument is apples and oranges and can't be won by either side. It is really hard to even define what is a black eye.

This is true.

[Enhance]

The only fair way to answer this question is to answer based on which scenario makes you feel worse. And for that reason, I absolutely (and subjectively) have to go with SP and BC.

 

Thinking back on the LP scenario, I'm disgusted. At the same time, however, I'm comforted by the fact that these types of situations happen all over college football on a yearly basis. Maybe not to the same extent, but players are always getting suspended for doing things detrimental to program image. But in the end, it never amounts to more than anything than a misguided player on an otherwise exceptional team.

 

With SP and BC though, you're talking about overall national perception and prowess. Very few people, outside of opponents who like to take cheap shots, talk about the LP situation anymore. Because as I said it just gets cropped up into the misguided player on an otherwise exceptional team category. Nebraska has been fighting to gain national respect since the Rose Bowl in 2002. We've all had to sit through broadcasters questioning just how good we really are, opponents no longer respecting us, little to any national coverage, and we also had to sit through a fan base that literally tried to tear itself apart.

 

A player and his actions hurts at the time, but passes after awhile. Football goes on. The feeling of what SP and BC did to the Husker program is going to sit with me for an extremely long time, however. It's not as simple to move on when your entire program is suffering, as compared to when one player is making you suffer.

 

Here's to Bo Pelini.

[jjamuss]

The only fair way to answer this question is to answer based on which scenario makes you feel worse. And for that reason, I absolutely (and subjectively) have to go with SP and BC.

 

Thinking back on the LP scenario, I'm disgusted. At the same time, however, I'm comforted by the fact that these types of situations happen all over college football on a yearly basis. Maybe not to the same extent, but players are always getting suspended for doing things detrimental to program image. But in the end, it never amounts to more than anything than a misguided player on an otherwise exceptional team.

 

With SP and BC though, you're talking about overall national perception and prowess. Very few people, outside of opponents who like to take cheap shots, talk about the LP situation anymore. Because as I said it just gets cropped up into the misguided player on an otherwise exceptional team category. Nebraska has been fighting to gain national respect since the Rose Bowl in 2002. We've all had to sit through broadcasters questioning just how good we really are, opponents no longer respecting us, little to any national coverage, and we also had to sit through a fan base that literally tried to tear itself apart.

 

A player and his actions hurts at the time, but passes after awhile. Football goes on. The feeling of what SP and BC did to the Husker program is going to sit with me for an extremely long time, however. It's not as simple to move on when your entire program is suffering, as compared to when one player is making you suffer.

 

Here's to Bo Pelini.

 

I voted in context of where people are right now... BC was in the playoffs in the NFL, not too shabby, SP is at Pitt and they finished well... the other two are in prison.

 

Hmmm.... some bad losses or life sentence in prison for murder and cocaine trafficking... you figure it out.

[junior4949]

Sure, about every program out there has been hit with these scandals like Charles Thompson at OU getting busted for cocaine. However, LP was the gift that just kept on giving. It wasn't just the 95' assault, trying to run over kids after a pick-up game, etc. Until they locked him up, he just kept on throwing gas on the fire.

[Enhance]

The only fair way to answer this question is to answer based on which scenario makes you feel worse. And for that reason, I absolutely (and subjectively) have to go with SP and BC.

 

Thinking back on the LP scenario, I'm disgusted. At the same time, however, I'm comforted by the fact that these types of situations happen all over college football on a yearly basis. Maybe not to the same extent, but players are always getting suspended for doing things detrimental to program image. But in the end, it never amounts to more than anything than a misguided player on an otherwise exceptional team.

 

With SP and BC though, you're talking about overall national perception and prowess. Very few people, outside of opponents who like to take cheap shots, talk about the LP situation anymore. Because as I said it just gets cropped up into the misguided player on an otherwise exceptional team category. Nebraska has been fighting to gain national respect since the Rose Bowl in 2002. We've all had to sit through broadcasters questioning just how good we really are, opponents no longer respecting us, little to any national coverage, and we also had to sit through a fan base that literally tried to tear itself apart.

 

A player and his actions hurts at the time, but passes after awhile. Football goes on. The feeling of what SP and BC did to the Husker program is going to sit with me for an extremely long time, however. It's not as simple to move on when your entire program is suffering, as compared to when one player is making you suffer.

 

Here's to Bo Pelini.

 

I voted in context of where people are right now... BC was in the playoffs in the NFL, not too shabby, SP is at Pitt and they finished well... the other two are in prison.

 

Hmmm.... some bad losses or life sentence in prison for murder and cocaine trafficking... you figure it out.

Not to knock on your opinion, but I see little relevance. What they are doing now has little of anything to do with what they did in earlier years of their life.

 

That state of mind is similar to saying Eric Crouch's college career is diminished because he now sells playground equipment.

 

What SP and BC did to Nebraska was more than just a "few losses". It was a culture shock that literally tried to tear this state apart.