Some thoughts on Nebraska and the latest fallout from NCAA investigations

[knapplc]

I might be in the minority with this opinion, but I don't see how stripping Bush's Heisman does anything for you. Sure, the "university" doesn't deserve it, but Reggie Bush does at the very least. Whatever benefits he received, they didn't make him a physically gifted athlete.

 

Stripping Bush of the Heisman makes perfect sense. Would Bush have gone to USC without the illegal perks he got? Without the team surrounding him at USC, does he perform half as well as he did?

 

There are Heisman-worthy players all over the country, but since many of them play on weaker teams, they don't stand out as much. Bush stood out because he was on a team of all-stars, a team that may not have been put together without those impermissible benefits.

 

Taking away his Heisman also sends a message to other top-tier athletes that there are consequences for violating NCAA rules. You don't get to take the illegal perks without losing your benefits.

Or, you keep the Heisman at USC and use it as a reminder to never do what this kid did.

 

The problem I see with this is that EVERYBODY still knows who Reggie Bush is, and they will continue to know who he is for a very long time. If you're going to strip the Heisman, why not strip the wins and the championships? It seems like USC is making Bush a fall guy for their mistakes, rather than making everybody responsible for the mistakes as a collective whole. Plus, if you're going to strip the Heisman, then why not take away the revenue that he supplied the school? IMHO, taking away the Heisman doesn't change anything and it makes Bush out to be the fall guy, when the university itself isn't innocent.

 

Distancing themselves from Bush doesn't change the fact that he was still the best player in college football that year. If you strip the Heisman, then strip everything else you benefited from as a university. Don't just take away a Heisman so you feel better about yourselves.

 

You don't punish someone by letting them keep a prize they won under illicit circumstances. Bush wasn't a victim here - he knew he was getting illegal benefits. What is it about Reggie Bush that makes you think he should get to keep the trophy? Why not strip the wins and championships? I'm all for that, too. They cheated, and they should e punished. But this tangent about USC making Bush the fall guy... USC didn't receive illicit benefits, Reggie Bush did. Bush's actions were a direct violation; USC benefited indirectly. If anyone should be punished first, it's Bush. Personally, I think they should both be punished.

 

And no, Bush wasn't the best player in college football that year, Vince Young was. Bush was the most popular player on the most popular team, that's all. Vince was the better player, and proved it on the field.

 

Southern Cal benefited way more than whatever paltry sum Bush received from the the agents, see the thread on top earners in CFB. They knowingly and intentionally allowed illegal money to flow to their players because it got them back on top of totem pole.

 

First of all, estimates range between $100,000 and $300,000 that Bush received from various sources, which is not a paltry sum, but that's not the point. The point is that Bush received benefits DIRECTLY from the agent. I'm not giving USC a pass here - they're guilty too. But because they are also guilty does not mean Bush isn't guilty, nor does it mean that Bush shouldn't face consequences.

 

I don't understand why this concept is so hard for people to grasp. There are so many excuses being made for Reggie Bush.... it's baffling.

[Foppa]

I might be in the minority with this opinion, but I don't see how stripping Bush's Heisman does anything for you. Sure, the "university" doesn't deserve it, but Reggie Bush does at the very least. Whatever benefits he received, they didn't make him a physically gifted athlete.

 

Stripping Bush of the Heisman makes perfect sense. Would Bush have gone to USC without the illegal perks he got? Without the team surrounding him at USC, does he perform half as well as he did?

 

There are Heisman-worthy players all over the country, but since many of them play on weaker teams, they don't stand out as much. Bush stood out because he was on a team of all-stars, a team that may not have been put together without those impermissible benefits.

 

Taking away his Heisman also sends a message to other top-tier athletes that there are consequences for violating NCAA rules. You don't get to take the illegal perks without losing your benefits.

Or, you keep the Heisman at USC and use it as a reminder to never do what this kid did.

 

The problem I see with this is that EVERYBODY still knows who Reggie Bush is, and they will continue to know who he is for a very long time. If you're going to strip the Heisman, why not strip the wins and the championships? It seems like USC is making Bush a fall guy for their mistakes, rather than making everybody responsible for the mistakes as a collective whole. Plus, if you're going to strip the Heisman, then why not take away the revenue that he supplied the school? IMHO, taking away the Heisman doesn't change anything and it makes Bush out to be the fall guy, when the university itself isn't innocent.

 

Distancing themselves from Bush doesn't change the fact that he was still the best player in college football that year. If you strip the Heisman, then strip everything else you benefited from as a university. Don't just take away a Heisman so you feel better about yourselves.

 

You don't punish someone by letting them keep a prize they won under illicit circumstances. Bush wasn't a victim here - he knew he was getting illegal benefits. What is it about Reggie Bush that makes you think he should get to keep the trophy? Why not strip the wins and championships? I'm all for that, too. They cheated, and they should e punished. But this tangent about USC making Bush the fall guy... USC didn't receive illicit benefits, Reggie Bush did. Bush's actions were a direct violation; USC benefited indirectly. If anyone should be punished first, it's Bush. Personally, I think they should both be punished.

 

And no, Bush wasn't the best player in college football that year, Vince Young was. Bush was the most popular player on the most popular team, that's all. Vince was the better player, and proved it on the field.

 

Southern Cal benefited way more than whatever paltry sum Bush received from the the agents, see the thread on top earners in CFB. They knowingly and intentionally allowed illegal money to flow to their players because it got them back on top of totem pole.

 

First of all, estimates range between $100,000 and $300,000 that Bush received from various sources, which is not a paltry sum, but that's not the point. The point is that Bush received benefits DIRECTLY from the agent. I'm not giving USC a pass here - they're guilty too. But because they are also guilty does not mean Bush isn't guilty, nor does it mean that Bush shouldn't face consequences.

 

I don't understand why this concept is so hard for people to grasp. There are so many excuses being made for Reggie Bush.... it's baffling.

 

Not only Reggie Bush, but his parents. You would think that parents would try to set an example for their children; apparently, Bush's parents were in on the negotiations on how much Reggie should get for not only himself, but for his parent's new home. The apple didn't fall too far...

[drmathprog]

I might be in the minority with this opinion, but I don't see how stripping Bush's Heisman does anything for you. Sure, the "university" doesn't deserve it, but Reggie Bush does at the very least. Whatever benefits he received, they didn't make him a physically gifted athlete.

 

Stripping Bush of the Heisman makes perfect sense. Would Bush have gone to USC without the illegal perks he got? Without the team surrounding him at USC, does he perform half as well as he did?

 

There are Heisman-worthy players all over the country, but since many of them play on weaker teams, they don't stand out as much. Bush stood out because he was on a team of all-stars, a team that may not have been put together without those impermissible benefits.

 

Taking away his Heisman also sends a message to other top-tier athletes that there are consequences for violating NCAA rules. You don't get to take the illegal perks without losing your benefits.

Or, you keep the Heisman at USC and use it as a reminder to never do what this kid did.

 

The problem I see with this is that EVERYBODY still knows who Reggie Bush is, and they will continue to know who he is for a very long time. If you're going to strip the Heisman, why not strip the wins and the championships? It seems like USC is making Bush a fall guy for their mistakes, rather than making everybody responsible for the mistakes as a collective whole. Plus, if you're going to strip the Heisman, then why not take away the revenue that he supplied the school? IMHO, taking away the Heisman doesn't change anything and it makes Bush out to be the fall guy, when the university itself isn't innocent.

 

Distancing themselves from Bush doesn't change the fact that he was still the best player in college football that year. If you strip the Heisman, then strip everything else you benefited from as a university. Don't just take away a Heisman so you feel better about yourselves.

 

You don't punish someone by letting them keep a prize they won under illicit circumstances. Bush wasn't a victim here - he knew he was getting illegal benefits. What is it about Reggie Bush that makes you think he should get to keep the trophy? Why not strip the wins and championships? I'm all for that, too. They cheated, and they should e punished. But this tangent about USC making Bush the fall guy... USC didn't receive illicit benefits, Reggie Bush did. Bush's actions were a direct violation; USC benefited indirectly. If anyone should be punished first, it's Bush. Personally, I think they should both be punished.

 

And no, Bush wasn't the best player in college football that year, Vince Young was. Bush was the most popular player on the most popular team, that's all. Vince was the better player, and proved it on the field.

 

Southern Cal benefited way more than whatever paltry sum Bush received from the the agents, see the thread on top earners in CFB. They knowingly and intentionally allowed illegal money to flow to their players because it got them back on top of totem pole.

 

First of all, estimates range between $100,000 and $300,000 that Bush received from various sources, which is not a paltry sum, but that's not the point. The point is that Bush received benefits DIRECTLY from the agent. I'm not giving USC a pass here - they're guilty too. But because they are also guilty does not mean Bush isn't guilty, nor does it mean that Bush shouldn't face consequences.

 

I don't understand why this concept is so hard for people to grasp. There are so many excuses being made for Reggie Bush.... it's baffling.

 

 

All very true. But, at least from USC's standpoint, someone has to get thrown under the bus. Garrett did, and if anyone deserves it, it seems he does. Mayo is long gone and nearly forgotten. Carroll saw the bus coming and beat it out of town, landing on his feet as always. That leaves Bush.

[T_O_Bull]

The NCAA lives in a bubble. Most of their rules are out dated and just plain stupid. College athletes are the pawns in a billion dollar industry. I realize that scolarships are valuable but these kids need a break. The NCAA and the Universities make boat loads of cash and alot of these athletes don't have the spending money to take their girlfriends to the movies and a pizza on Friday night. Time for an overhaul of the whole system.

 

T_O_B

 

[Notre Dame Joe]

I might be in the minority with this opinion, but I don't see how stripping Bush's Heisman does anything for you. Sure, the "university" doesn't deserve it, but Reggie Bush does at the very least. Whatever benefits he received, they didn't make him a physically gifted athlete.

 

Stripping Bush of the Heisman makes perfect sense. Would Bush have gone to USC without the illegal perks he got? Without the team surrounding him at USC, does he perform half as well as he did?

 

There are Heisman-worthy players all over the country, but since many of them play on weaker teams, they don't stand out as much. Bush stood out because he was on a team of all-stars, a team that may not have been put together without those impermissible benefits.

 

Taking away his Heisman also sends a message to other top-tier athletes that there are consequences for violating NCAA rules. You don't get to take the illegal perks without losing your benefits.

Or, you keep the Heisman at USC and use it as a reminder to never do what this kid did.

 

The problem I see with this is that EVERYBODY still knows who Reggie Bush is, and they will continue to know who he is for a very long time. If you're going to strip the Heisman, why not strip the wins and the championships? It seems like USC is making Bush a fall guy for their mistakes, rather than making everybody responsible for the mistakes as a collective whole. Plus, if you're going to strip the Heisman, then why not take away the revenue that he supplied the school? IMHO, taking away the Heisman doesn't change anything and it makes Bush out to be the fall guy, when the university itself isn't innocent.

 

Distancing themselves from Bush doesn't change the fact that he was still the best player in college football that year. If you strip the Heisman, then strip everything else you benefited from as a university. Don't just take away a Heisman so you feel better about yourselves.

 

You don't punish someone by letting them keep a prize they won under illicit circumstances. Bush wasn't a victim here - he knew he was getting illegal benefits. What is it about Reggie Bush that makes you think he should get to keep the trophy? Why not strip the wins and championships? I'm all for that, too. They cheated, and they should e punished. But this tangent about USC making Bush the fall guy... USC didn't receive illicit benefits, Reggie Bush did. Bush's actions were a direct violation; USC benefited indirectly. If anyone should be punished first, it's Bush. Personally, I think they should both be punished.

 

And no, Bush wasn't the best player in college football that year, Vince Young was. Bush was the most popular player on the most popular team, that's all. Vince was the better player, and proved it on the field.

 

Southern Cal benefited way more than whatever paltry sum Bush received from the the agents, see the thread on top earners in CFB. They knowingly and intentionally allowed illegal money to flow to their players because it got them back on top of totem pole.

 

First of all, estimates range between $100,000 and $300,000 that Bush received from various sources, which is not a paltry sum, but that's not the point. The point is that Bush received benefits DIRECTLY from the agent. I'm not giving USC a pass here - they're guilty too. But because they are also guilty does not mean Bush isn't guilty, nor does it mean that Bush shouldn't face consequences.

 

I don't understand why this concept is so hard for people to grasp. There are so many excuses being made for Reggie Bush.... it's baffling.

 

Not only Reggie Bush, but his parents. You would think that parents would try to set an example for their children; apparently, Bush's parents were in on the negotiations on how much Reggie should get for not only himself, but for his parent's new home. The apple didn't fall too far...

 

I dislike Bush as much as anyone because he verballed to Notre Dame and then something or someone changed his mind.

But I blame the atheletes the least in these situations. I doubt there are very many kids who would refuse offers of money and other stuff. Especially ones from poor and working class backgrounds who arrive in a college football world where that is the norm.

[knapplc]

But I blame the atheletes the least in these situations. I doubt there are very many kids who would refuse offers of money and other stuff. Especially ones from poor and working class backgrounds who arrive in a college football world where that is the norm.

 

I see where you're coming from. I sympathize with the athletes. I grew up pretty darned poor, so I can empathize with them, to a slight degree, anyway. But bottom line is, the rules are the rules. The rules may be stupid and antiquated and arbitrary and unfair, but breaking the rules in this way is not the solution to the problem created by the rules.

 

Bush especially should not be pitied. No matter how destitute he was as a child, that is no excuse for breaking rules he knew he was breaking - especially when he knew that three years after High School he was going to be making hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars per year. Further, his is not the worst story of deprivation and poverty and childhood danger to enter the college football ranks; there are far worse cases who did not take the bribes Bush did.

 

There is no excuse for his behavior, and no matter the amount of culpability Carroll and USC own, Bush is still guilty first and foremost.

[Foppa]

But I blame the atheletes the least in these situations. I doubt there are very many kids who would refuse offers of money and other stuff. Especially ones from poor and working class backgrounds who arrive in a college football world where that is the norm.

 

I see where you're coming from. I sympathize with the athletes. I grew up pretty darned poor, so I can empathize with them, to a slight degree, anyway. But bottom line is, the rules are the rules. The rules may be stupid and antiquated and arbitrary and unfair, but breaking the rules in this way is not the solution to the problem created by the rules.

 

Bush especially should not be pitied. No matter how destitute he was as a child, that is no excuse for breaking rules he knew he was breaking - especially when he knew that three years after High School he was going to be making hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars per year. Further, his is not the worst story of deprivation and poverty and childhood danger to enter the college football ranks; there are far worse cases who did not take the bribes Bush did.

 

There is no excuse for his behavior, and no matter the amount of culpability Carroll and USC own, Bush is still guilty first and foremost.

 

The old saying goes, 'You can't take it with you.' Maybe it'll be 10, 20, 50 years later that Reggie's $$ that bought him everything he wants in life doesn't seem to matter that much. Eventually, he'll come to realize that what he did ruined his school and his accomplishments that led him to his tainted money. A man is only as strong as his principles.

[Husker_Power]

If you haven't noticed, the NCAA Compliance Dept. is NOT on vacation this summer. With the fallout at USC setting off a flurry in the media, we're seeing a domino effect and the ACC/SEC region is getting hammered right now as we speak. Let's recap it quickly.

 

Tennessee - Vols athletes have been receiving VIP treatment at a local bar and had been for quite awhile (years?). Even worse is the establishment had been serving under-aged Vols athletes too.

 

North Carolina, South Carolina, Florida, Alabama - Athlete/Agent related violations a la Reggie Bush.

 

USC hired a new AD as of today and he is cleaning house. LITERALLY. He's unretiring Reggie Bush's number along with removing his memorabilia display case which includes sending back his Heisman trophy. He was quoted as saying that he's washing his hands of all things Pete Carroll and starting fresh from here on out.

 

I imagine a lot of schools across the nation are starting to get nervous, especially in the ACC/SEC region.

 

Through all of this chaos, I hope Nebraska has kept its nose clean? I've read that T.O. runs a really tight ship when it comes to dealing with agents. Apparently he has a strict policy enforced on campus. But I'm curious if anyone else has any info. on how he regulates these sorts of issues? Agents are sneaky characters and with the direction Pelini has the program going in, I expect a lot of defensive players getting NFL looks as long as Pelini is around. Suh especially put the focus back on Nebraska and now I see agents wanting to exploit the defensive talents that Pelini will be producing here in Lincoln for $.

 

Here's to hoping our staff and players are doing their part in preventing such a fiasco from happening at Dear Ol' NU.

 

Sounds like TO was on top of this agent problem when he was in congress.

 

Osborne ahead of curve on agent issue Posted by: Steve Sipple on July 23, 2010 at 8:51AM CST You didn't think agents would just sit back and let Nick Saban hammer them without returning fire, did you?

 

Veteran agent Ralph Cindrich tells The New York Times:

 

"I don't know that I would disagree with him about some agents as pimps, but all I know is there are coaches who would also fall in that category," said the 60-year-old, who represents NFL players. "I would never tolerate nor permit Saban or any other coach to lump me in that category.

 

"In terms of him throwing that out there, most agents know what goes on in college programs and what programs are clean or not. You want to find out who has the dirty programs, give immunity and go off the record with agents, and it would be like a cockfight, the last one standing wins."

 

Hmmm ... Now there's an idea.

 

Cindrich made his comments in the wake of Saban's harsh words this week relative to the rash of recent agent-related incidents that have resulted in NCAA investigations at SEC schools.

 

"I don't think it's anything but greed that's creating it right now on behalf of the agents," Saban said during SEC media days. "The agents that do this -- and I hate to say this, but how are they any better than a pimp?

 

"I have no respect for people who do that to young people. None. How would you feel if they did it to your child?"

 

Saban confirmed that Alabama is looking into a trip defensive end Marcell Dareus took to an agent's party at Miami's South Beach. At issue is the possibility of agents attempting to lure college athletes into binding professional contracts using improper benefits.

 

Tom Osborne, of course, has for years monitored the agent situation in college football. In fact, thanks in part to Osborne, every state has the ability to litigate against agents who use improper tactics. Eight years ago, while in Congress, Osborne co-sponsored legislation that penalized agents who broke NCAA rules or engaged in deceptive practices.

 

"Of course, some of the agents will come in and tell a player that they'll handle the contract, investments and endorsements, and those agents may have no training or expertise in any of those areas," Osborne told me last year. "They may not even have a bachelor's degree. And typically, a lot of the agents will make promises to student-athletes that they will get them drafted higher if they sign with them. That they'll take them and get a personal trainer and nutritionist and they invariably try to take them out of school and take them to California or New Jersey or someplace.

 

"Usually, within three or four weeks, the player's back here in Lincoln because they realize they probably have a better chance to prepare for the draft in our facilities than they do in whatever makeshift deal the agent has lined up.

 

"Not all agents are bad," Osborne added. "Some are good people. But the good ones usually are people who aren't pounding on your door at midnight or trying to find you in a hotel lobby somewhere and making a lot of crazy promises.

 

"It's kind of a strange world."

 

Link: LJS blog

[NUpolo8]

I think the culture of Nebraska is helpful in this situation. This isn't LA with glitz and glamor all over and people driving $70,000 cars probably isn't anything new. In the SEC it just seems to me as an outside observer that it's kind of a don't ask don't tell policy towards this sort of thing. It probably changed for a while when Alabama got beat down by the NCAA, but with the depth of talent in the SEC, it's easier for agents to maximize their exposure to potential clients and find that one or two who would be willing to grab some cash. Agents, especially outside agents, would stick out like a sore thumb in Lincoln.

Spot on Josh. It’s popular these days for NU fans——especially the Internets crowd——to dismiss this as homespun folklore. But it is a LOT easier to keep tabs on guys in Lincoln than in LA.

 

 

Sometimes, this place should be called naiveteboard......

 

Back in 2000, if you went to BW3's one January night for 25 cent wings, you saw Dominic Raiola talking with an agent. Anyone who went to school here knows for a fact all the players who had a good look at the NFL were tricking around in some pretty nice rides. It happens at NU.

[HuskerJosh]

I think the culture of Nebraska is helpful in this situation. This isn't LA with glitz and glamor all over and people driving $70,000 cars probably isn't anything new. In the SEC it just seems to me as an outside observer that it's kind of a don't ask don't tell policy towards this sort of thing. It probably changed for a while when Alabama got beat down by the NCAA, but with the depth of talent in the SEC, it's easier for agents to maximize their exposure to potential clients and find that one or two who would be willing to grab some cash. Agents, especially outside agents, would stick out like a sore thumb in Lincoln.

Spot on Josh. It’s popular these days for NU fans——especially the Internets crowd——to dismiss this as homespun folklore. But it is a LOT easier to keep tabs on guys in Lincoln than in LA.

 

 

Sometimes, this place should be called naiveteboard......

 

Back in 2000, if you went to BW3's one January night for 25 cent wings, you saw Dominic Raiola talking with an agent. Anyone who went to school here knows for a fact all the players who had a good look at the NFL were tricking around in some pretty nice rides. It happens at NU.

 

Nice try. I did go to school here and was friends with Barrett Ruud and Stewart Bradley. Neither were driving anything uncommon. Both got drafted. So much for your "fact".

[NUpolo8]

The point, gentle reader, was that some will not take money and take the high road. Some will. Happens everywhere. Happened at NU a lot more than some of the sunshine pumpers want to believe.

 

Tell me honestly, think of some of the real character prizes we've had attend NU, you think they;re all angels?

 

Newcombe

The Bros. Peter

LP

Terrell Farley

Hell Suh tricked around in a Land Rover

 

The real problems can be the ones I listed above, they may or may not get a crack at a big salary in the NFL, but the agent floats them a loan, because hey, they're good for it. Then they need to do something really questionable to pay the loan off if they wash out.

[knapplc]

Hell Suh tricked around in a Land Rover

 

I've seen Suh's Land Rover. It wasn't much to look at. It wasn't new (2003) and it wasn't all that nice. You can't swing a stick in a major city on the west coast without hitting two Land Rovers. It's pretty unsurprising that a guy from the west coast would be driving a used Land Rover. Especially when that guy is 6'4" tall. Hell, I'm only 6'3" and I have trouble fitting in most sedans - there isn't enough head room.

 

To sum up - this means nothing.

 

However, your overall point that there have been shenanigans at NU is valid. I have no specifics, but you don't bring 100+ athletes through here every year without something happening. It's inevitable at every institution, and NU is no exception.