Eric Martin

[knapplc]

Yeah, incidental contact happens. But it's generally when both players are hunkering down for an impact. Not when one is running along (stupidly unaware, yes, but that's not the point here) and the other levels him. If you do that, as in hit a player that's just running along, you'd best be sure your helmet is not slamming into the other guy's at the same time your shoulder is hitting his chest. They will call that as targeting a player above the shoulders. It doesn't have to be intentional - it's a circumstance where a high hit is made that didn't need to be so high as to initiate contact with the helmet, and they will flag it if they see it.

 

They saw it, and didn't flag it. Next.

[EbylHusker]

Yeah, incidental contact happens. But it's generally when both players are hunkering down for an impact. Not when one is running along (stupidly unaware, yes, but that's not the point here) and the other levels him. If you do that, as in hit a player that's just running along, you'd best be sure your helmet is not slamming into the other guy's at the same time your shoulder is hitting his chest. They will call that as targeting a player above the shoulders. It doesn't have to be intentional - it's a circumstance where a high hit is made that didn't need to be so high as to initiate contact with the helmet, and they will flag it if they see it.

 

They saw it, and didn't flag it. Next.

 

Proof they saw it? Your assumption they saw it and didn't flag it is invalid. They miss calls on the field all the time. Next?

[knapplc]

Watch the ref focusing right on Martin.

[EbylHusker]

Yeah, and you know what? From that angle, it doesn't look like helmet to helmet contact to me. That video was posted in the other thread, and I asked for a better one because I just couldn't tell what was happening. I was almost convinced by that video that there was no helmet to helmet contact, but it's obvious in the one posted here. Sometimes the angle makes this look different. It's entirely possible the ref didn't see the helmet to helmet contact.

[Sparker]

Why don't you two whip 'em out and get the measuring tape? seriously

[knapplc]

So, to recap:

 

The Ref saw the play (looking right at it, on the video)

The rule discusses intentional use of the helmet on a defenseless player. The player was not defenseless and the helmet was not used.

The rule does not allow for incidental contact. The helmet-to-helmet contact was incidental.

Despite the ref looking right at the play, there was no flag, no foul, and no ejection.

Ron Franklin is a quivering vagina and has whined about Nebraska players for going on 3 years now

 

Did I miss anything?

Edited October 24, 2010 by knapplc
Missed one

[HuskerJosh]

So, to recap:

 

The Ref saw the play (looking right at it, on the video)

The rule discusses intentional use of the helmet on a defenseless player. The player was not defenseless and the helmet was not used.

The rule does not allow for incidental contact. The helmet-to-helmet contact was incidental.

Despite the ref looking right at the play, there was no flag, no foul, and no ejection.

 

 

Did I miss anything?

Ron Franklin is a quivering vagina and has whined about Nebraska players for going on 3 years now?

[EbylHusker]

So, to recap:

 

The Ref saw the play (looking right at it, on the video)

The rule discusses intentional use of the helmet on a defenseless player. The player was not defenseless and the helmet was not used.

The rule does not allow for incidental contact. The helmet-to-helmet contact was incidental.

Despite the ref looking right at the play, there was no flag, no foul, and no ejection.

 

 

Did I miss anything?

Beyond that fact that sometimes it's hard to tell what's going on from certain angles...? You're still assuming the that ref saw what we see from the other angles. Of course he didn't - and I'd actually agree with the ref from the angle you just posted. It doesn't look like an illegal hit.

[knapplc]

Why don't you two whip 'em out and get the measuring tape? seriously

Discussing football is what this forum is for.

[ADS]

So, to recap:

 

The Ref saw the play (looking right at it, on the video)

The rule discusses intentional use of the helmet on a defenseless player. The player was not defenseless and the helmet was not used.

The rule does not allow for incidental contact. The helmet-to-helmet contact was incidental.

Despite the ref looking right at the play, there was no flag, no foul, and no ejection.

 

 

Did I miss anything?

Ron Franklin is a quivering vagina and has whined about Nebraska players for going on 3 years now?

 

Him and Ed Cunnigham would make a cute couple.

[Enhance]

I do love a good knapplc-owning-people thread. I have seen too few of these in recent months. Or maybe I just don't lerk as much as I used to.

[shyndy]

I'm willing to grant that a ref could have flagged this for helmet to helmet, although so far this year they seem to be more accurate with the call. But if you remember, I think it was against ULL, Martin had a really great hit on a guy and they called illegal use of helmet but it was very similar, not a dirty hit at all. Thing is if they would have flagged this it would have been a bad call.

 

I think the real problem that we are having is people saying Martin should be suspended, teh announcer going on about how it was a "cheap shot" whatever. IMO that was a textbook football hit, highlight reel worthy. But then, everyone else seems to be wanting the sport to evolve to two hand touch.

[epocSoN]

DEAR GOD.... HOW ARE WE STILL DISCUSSING THIS....

 

If you are on kickoff team and aren't paying attention to your surroundings, focusing only on the return man, you will get blown up like this every time.

 

It's the Cowboys fault. Learn to play football.

 

Stop discussing this.

[EbylHusker]

The rule is there to protect players, and the refs will interpret the rules. All of these interpretations are not covered in the manual, so you can dig around to your heart's content and not find something to fit every situation.

 

One situation they do call are hits that have incidental (but serious) helmet to helmet contact that did not need to have it. That's the difference between your Frost video and the Martin hit. Neither needed to have helmet to helmet contact, as the targeted player in both cases was just running along. No change in body posture, no hunkering down, etc.

 

The Frost hit was made in a way that no helmet to helmet contact happened. Martin's was not - in fact his helmet hit the other guy's quite hard. This is something the will call if they see. That they didn't flag it doesn't prove they saw it, had a good angle on it, etc.

[The Dude]

I hate the direction football is going.