ESPN Tradition Battle

[Hercules]

Gotta love being a fan of a state that basically only has 1 team to cheer for.

 

Think about how little sense that makes. You do realize the people in Nebraska own televisions, radios and have access to the Internet, right? I've lived in Nebraska most of my life, yet I'm a Bears, Bulls & Cubs fan. That's three teams besides Nebraska that I cheer for.

 

Besides, we have 1.8 million people in this whole state. Even if you divide the population of Oklahoma in half with OU and OSU, that's still equal to our population.

 

I just don't see what this "one team" stuff has to do with anything.

 

I think there's something to the idea that Nebraska fans are more fanatical about Husker football because there isn't another team/sport around for them to naturally grow up with. Growing up in Nebraska, I only became fans of other teams with certain players that I liked watching (e.g. Michael Jordan and the Bulls), and when those players retired, I no longer cared for those teams. Nebraska is the only program that I am truly a fan of, even though I still watch plenty of other teams for fun.

 

This doesn't have to do with the "one team" theory, but I also think that Nebraska's regional fan base extends beyond the state borders. I've met people my age from Missouri and Iowa who actually grew up as Nebraska fans, likely because of how dominant we were in the 90's. There are lots of families in South Dakota, North Dakota, Wyoming, and Montana who may or may not have connections to Nebraska, but who become fans because Nebraska has asserted itself as the only Division 1A power from that group of states.

[okaive]

Gotta love being a fan of a state that basically only has 1 team to cheer for.

 

Think about how little sense that makes. You do realize the people in Nebraska own televisions, radios and have access to the Internet, right? I've lived in Nebraska most of my life, yet I'm a Bears, Bulls & Cubs fan. That's three teams besides Nebraska that I cheer for.

 

Besides, we have 1.8 million people in this whole state. Even if you divide the population of Oklahoma in half with OU and OSU, that's still equal to our population.

 

I just don't see what this "one team" stuff has to do with anything.

 

I think there's something to the idea that Nebraska fans are more fanatical about Husker football because there isn't another team/sport around for them to naturally grow up with. Growing up in Nebraska, I only became fans of other teams with certain players that I liked watching (e.g. Michael Jordan and the Bulls), and when those players retired, I no longer cared for those teams. Nebraska is the only program that I am truly a fan of, even though I still watch plenty of other teams for fun.

 

 

Thank you Herc for not having the blinders on and seeing the point.

[knapplc]

Gotta love being a fan of a state that basically only has 1 team to cheer for.

 

Think about how little sense that makes. You do realize the people in Nebraska own televisions, radios and have access to the Internet, right? I've lived in Nebraska most of my life, yet I'm a Bears, Bulls & Cubs fan. That's three teams besides Nebraska that I cheer for.

 

Besides, we have 1.8 million people in this whole state. Even if you divide the population of Oklahoma in half with OU and OSU, that's still equal to our population.

 

I just don't see what this "one team" stuff has to do with anything.

 

I think there's something to the idea that Nebraska fans are more fanatical about Husker football because there isn't another team/sport around for them to naturally grow up with. Growing up in Nebraska, I only became fans of other teams with certain players that I liked watching (e.g. Michael Jordan and the Bulls), and when those players retired, I no longer cared for those teams. Nebraska is the only program that I am truly a fan of, even though I still watch plenty of other teams for fun.

 

 

Thank you Herc for not having the blinders on and seeing the point.

 

OK, you're right. The ONLY reason we're winning this battle is because there are no other sports teams inside the borders of Nebraska. Ignore the fact that most of the votes for Nebraska in this thing came outside of our borders. That means nothing. It's ONLY because we have no other teams.

 

My apologies for having "the blinders" on.

[okaive]

Gotta love being a fan of a state that basically only has 1 team to cheer for.

 

Think about how little sense that makes. You do realize the people in Nebraska own televisions, radios and have access to the Internet, right? I've lived in Nebraska most of my life, yet I'm a Bears, Bulls & Cubs fan. That's three teams besides Nebraska that I cheer for.

 

Besides, we have 1.8 million people in this whole state. Even if you divide the population of Oklahoma in half with OU and OSU, that's still equal to our population.

 

I just don't see what this "one team" stuff has to do with anything.

 

 

 

Thank you Herc for not having the blinders on and seeing the point.

 

OK, you're right. The ONLY reason we're winning this battle is because there are no other sports teams inside the borders of Nebraska. Ignore the fact that most of the votes for Nebraska in this thing came outside of our borders. That means nothing. It's ONLY because we have no other teams.

 

My apologies for having "the blinders" on.

 

 

 

Hmmm I am one outside of the borders and was born in Nebraska. Not everyone born in NU stays there, but NU has the biggest fans that stick to their roots. As for more sports in NU. What is there really that stays on the tv all the time other then the huskers. All other sports in Ne are a joke. Omaha Royals... I mean storm chasers, when was the last time they actually did something? The Arena football team? What is their name, because I don't know it.

 

Most other states have either two different colleges in their states or pro-teams. Which means that they are either care about the other team or don't care about college and rather watch pro. Nebraska is special that way because Huskers are the only thing they have and the fans aren't going to be fascinated with the pros like the other states are. Take Mo for example. They have 2 pro football teams, a pro hockey team and 2 MLB teams. So college football really isn't their top choice as Nebraska has.

 

I think there's something to the idea that Nebraska fans are more fanatical about Husker football because there isn't another team/sport around for them to naturally grow up with. Growing up in Nebraska, I only became fans of other teams with certain players that I liked watching (e.g. Michael Jordan and the Bulls), and when those players retired, I no longer cared for those teams. Nebraska is the only program that I am truly a fan of, even though I still watch plenty of other teams for fun.

 

Oh and apology accepted

[knapplc]

Hmmm I am one outside of the borders and was born in Nebraska. Not everyone born in NU stays there, but NU has the biggest fans that stick to their roots. As for more sports in NU. What is there really that stays on the tv all the time other then the huskers. All other sports in Ne are a joke. Omaha Royals... I mean storm chasers, when was the last time they actually did something? The Arena football team? What is their name, because I don't know it.

 

Most other states have either two different colleges in their states or pro-teams. Which means that they are either care about the other team or don't care about college and rather watch pro. Nebraska is special that way because Huskers are the only thing they have and the fans aren't going to be fascinated with the pros like the other states are. Take Mo for example. They have 2 pro football teams, a pro hockey team and 2 MLB teams. So college football really isn't their top choice as Nebraska has.

 

I think there's something to the idea that Nebraska fans are more fanatical about Husker football because there isn't another team/sport around for them to naturally grow up with. Growing up in Nebraska, I only became fans of other teams with certain players that I liked watching (e.g. Michael Jordan and the Bulls), and when those players retired, I no longer cared for those teams. Nebraska is the only program that I am truly a fan of, even though I still watch plenty of other teams for fun.

 

Oh and apology accepted

 

So, to follow this logic, Notre Dame fans aren't truly fans of Notre Dame because of the Colts and Pacers. I think you just won the internet, my friend.

[Lil' Red]

New round is up.

 

Link

[kchusker_chris]

New round is up.

 

Link

Said there was only 1 vote after I voted, and Michigan was winning w/ 100% of the vote. (and no I didn't vote for Mich)

[kchusker_chris]

No one hacked. Anyone who suggests hacking took place simply has no knowledge of how the internet or websites work. An online poll is a simple counter that once you click submit your browser simply is told to go to a page that adds one to the current total. Every fan base is using private mode browsing, multiple browsers, deleted cookies, etc to vote multiple times. There is no hacking required to ding that bell and have a website do the most basic math. It's a problem with online polls that if you allow anonymous voting anyone can hit the poll multiple times, or tell their browser to, etc.

Hmmm, clicking submit and going to a page to "post" a current total is web programming circa 1995. Today we use things like http xml requests to post directly to the server, and relational databases to store data. Becase the web is stateless, that "current total" we send to the server has to be stored somewhere right? Not just some text file w/ a counter that goes up I promise you that. I assure you, they don't store the total. There are individual session responses stored with other attributes of the poster (like location determined from IP, browser details, etc). So, you COULD manipulate the site with cross site scripting w/ little work, or simply do a SQL injection inserting a boatloat of sessions. You could also hack the SQL DB and manipulate it that way. To get 16,000 responses all at once - when the total hadn't increased in that much over the previous 6 days - it's not some fan sitting in the dark deleting his cookies and refreshing. It's a nerd creating a response object for that particular address, then manipulating the object to form a post w/ the correct response. Same thing that happens when you screen scrape. Either that or one of the other above suggested methods. It's not difficult, but hacking is certainly a possibility. To dismiss it would mean the person simply has no knowledge of how the internet or websites work.

[redblooded]

Hmmm, clicking submit and going to a page to "post" a current total is web programming circa 1995. Today we use things like http xml requests to post directly to the server, and relational databases to store data.

 

It's not a "post" its a http "get" request they use onSubmit of those forms. Welcome to espn's corporate run site, most likely run by a jock sniffing boys club and a few eyecandy types that are hoping to jump on air before their looks go.

 

Becase the web is stateless, that "current total" we send to the server has to be stored somewhere right? Not just some text file w/ a counter that goes up I promise you that. I assure you, they don't store the total.

 

The raw data they were supplying the map flash application in the previous poll:

&AL1=55&AL2=45&ALTotal=875&AK1=36&AK2=64&AKTotal=45&AZ1=48&AZ2=52&AZTotal=860&AR1=45&AR2=55&ARTotal=289&CA1=52&CA2=48&CATotal=2657&CO1=49&CO2=51&COTotal=1359&CT1=58&CT2=42&CTTotal=380&DE1=57&DE2=43&DETotal=65&FL1=63&FL2=37&FLTotal=3017&GA1=55&GA2=45&GATotal=2171&HI1=66&HI2=34&HITotal=99&ID1=47&ID2=53&IDTotal=142&IL1=49&IL2=51&ILTotal=2493&IN1=55&IN2=45&INTotal=1149&IA1=42&IA2=58&IATotal=628&KS1=31&KS2=69&KSTotal=753&KY1=66&KY2=34&KYTotal=476&LA1=47&LA2=53&LATotal=1026&ME1=60&ME2=40&METotal=50&MD1=60&MD2=40&MDTotal=562&MA1=61&MA2=39&MATotal=573&MI1=43&MI2=57&MITotal=2910&MN1=45&MN2=55&MNTotal=751&MS1=60&MS2=40&MSTotal=215&MO1=39&MO2=61&MOTotal=992&MT1=49&MT2=51&MTTotal=87&NE1=5&NE2=95&NETotal=5249&NV1=55&NV2=45&NVTotal=242&NH1=63&NH2=37&NHTotal=71&NJ1=61&NJ2=39&NJTotal=869&NM1=46&NM2=54&NMTotal=136&NY1=64&NY2=36&NYTotal=1421&NC1=62&NC2=38&NCTotal=1182&ND1=53&ND2=47&NDTotal=85&OH1=89&OH2=11&OHTotal=8266&OK1=47&OK2=53&OKTotal=838&OR1=56&OR2=44&ORTotal=444&PA1=62&PA2=38&PATotal=1658&RI1=63&RI2=37&RITotal=97&SC1=55&SC2=45&SCTotal=979&SD1=24&SD2=76&SDTotal=249&TN1=51&TN2=49&TNTotal=1197&TX1=53&TX2=47&TXTotal=2889&UT1=52&UT2=48&UTTotal=309&VT1=57&VT2=43&VTTotal=23&VA1=57&VA2=43&VATotal=1045&WA1=52&WA2=48&WATotal=643&WV1=57&WV2=43&WVTotal=248&WI1=44&WI2=56&WITotal=872&WY1=19&WY2=81&WYTotal=127&DC1=55&DC2=45&DCTotal=762&INT1=17&INT2=83&INTTotal=53210

 

So while I am sure that at some point it hits a dbms, it really doesn't matter how they store it. You can also see where any request that had striped off their site analysis and geo-location cookies went... The else pile.

 

Which is why they removed the map. As I said above that is their fix.

 

There are individual session responses stored with other attributes of the poster (like location determined from IP, browser details, etc). So, you COULD manipulate the site with cross site scripting w/ little work, or simply do a SQL injection inserting a boatloat of sessions. You could also hack the SQL DB and manipulate it that way.

 

You are making things a lot more complicated then they need to be. Not only that but espn doesn't do its own geolocation/user tracking, they use an adobe site analysis tool for that. Plus all that stuff is done with JavaScript and not on the back end. They don't store that data in anything themselves, at least not poll related.

 

Also SQL injection is "hack(ing)" the SQL database, and if you got that far to where you could actually just insert data into a dbms you sure as heck wouldn't be wasting time with "sessions".

 

I'd add another possibility, you could just basically macro a browser, or emulate enough of one, and have it send pretty much the same requests a human run browser does when you click submit.

 

To get 16,000 responses all at once - when the total hadn't increased in that much over the previous 6 days - it's not some fan sitting in the dark deleting his cookies and refreshing. It's a nerd creating a response object for that particular address, then manipulating the object to form a post w/ the correct response. Same thing that happens when you screen scrape. Either that or one of the other above suggested methods. It's not difficult, but hacking is certainly a possibility. To dismiss it would mean the person simply has no knowledge of how the internet or websites work.

 

Nobody got 16,000 responses all at once. It was ~20,000 over around 6 hours. To dismiss "hacking" means that I know that emulating a browser submit was how it was done and that anyone suggesting that you need any other fancy web hacking wizardry like SQL injections or Cross site scripting is letting their imaginations run wild. Especially when simply sending the same get requests as espn's flash forms generate is much much easier and much less illegal.

 

Non-working script example:

 

for ($x = 0; $x < 10000; $x++)
{
$vote = 'http://url';

$r = $u->get($vote);

if ( $x % 100 == 0 && $x != 0)
{
	print $x." votes sent";
}
}

 

So anyways anyone who suggests that it was "hacking" is wrong, period. I modified a script I had written years ago when ESPN did "the greatest coaches of all time" and that poll turned into a "macro your browsers" competition with Alabama fans between Osborne and Bryant. I still think this poll is a stupid ad for a usually bad EA sports game, but well I was bored, and had been meaning to play with that script for a few years now. So when this turned into a silly school pride competition complete with 2000 post long comment sections of really stupid people repeating the same arguments and trashing each-other for hours on end, it was just too funny an opportunity for amusement to pass up. I guess I did it for the Lulz.

[huKSer]

Hmmm, clicking submit and going to a page to "post" a current total is web programming circa 1995. Today we use things like http xml requests to post directly to the server, and relational databases to store data.

 

It's not a "post" its a http "get" request they use onSubmit of those forms. Welcome to espn's corporate run site, most likely run by a jock sniffing boys club and a few eyecandy types that are hoping to jump on air before their looks go.

 

Becase the web is stateless, that "current total" we send to the server has to be stored somewhere right? Not just some text file w/ a counter that goes up I promise you that. I assure you, they don't store the total.

 

The raw data they were supplying the map flash application in the previous poll:

&AL1=55&AL2=45&ALTotal=875&AK1=36&AK2=64&AKTotal=45&AZ1=48&AZ2=52&AZTotal=860&AR1=45&AR2=55&ARTotal=289&CA1=52&CA2=48&CATotal=2657&CO1=49&CO2=51&COTotal=1359&CT1=58&CT2=42&CTTotal=380&DE1=57&DE2=43&DETotal=65&FL1=63&FL2=37&FLTotal=3017&GA1=55&GA2=45&GATotal=2171&HI1=66&HI2=34&HITotal=99&ID1=47&ID2=53&IDTotal=142&IL1=49&IL2=51&ILTotal=2493&IN1=55&IN2=45&INTotal=1149&IA1=42&IA2=58&IATotal=628&KS1=31&KS2=69&KSTotal=753&KY1=66&KY2=34&KYTotal=476&LA1=47&LA2=53&LATotal=1026&ME1=60&ME2=40&METotal=50&MD1=60&MD2=40&MDTotal=562&MA1=61&MA2=39&MATotal=573&MI1=43&MI2=57&MITotal=2910&MN1=45&MN2=55&MNTotal=751&MS1=60&MS2=40&MSTotal=215&MO1=39&MO2=61&MOTotal=992&MT1=49&MT2=51&MTTotal=87&NE1=5&NE2=95&NETotal=5249&NV1=55&NV2=45&NVTotal=242&NH1=63&NH2=37&NHTotal=71&NJ1=61&NJ2=39&NJTotal=869&NM1=46&NM2=54&NMTotal=136&NY1=64&NY2=36&NYTotal=1421&NC1=62&NC2=38&NCTotal=1182&ND1=53&ND2=47&NDTotal=85&OH1=89&OH2=11&OHTotal=8266&OK1=47&OK2=53&OKTotal=838&OR1=56&OR2=44&ORTotal=444&PA1=62&PA2=38&PATotal=1658&RI1=63&RI2=37&RITotal=97&SC1=55&SC2=45&SCTotal=979&SD1=24&SD2=76&SDTotal=249&TN1=51&TN2=49&TNTotal=1197&TX1=53&TX2=47&TXTotal=2889&UT1=52&UT2=48&UTTotal=309&VT1=57&VT2=43&VTTotal=23&VA1=57&VA2=43&VATotal=1045&WA1=52&WA2=48&WATotal=643&WV1=57&WV2=43&WVTotal=248&WI1=44&WI2=56&WITotal=872&WY1=19&WY2=81&WYTotal=127&DC1=55&DC2=45&DCTotal=762&INT1=17&INT2=83&INTTotal=53210

 

So while I am sure that at some point it hits a dbms, it really doesn't matter how they store it. You can also see where any request that had striped off their site analysis and geo-location cookies went... The else pile.

 

There are individual session responses stored with other attributes of the poster (like location determined from IP, browser details, etc). So, you COULD manipulate the site with cross site scripting w/ little work, or simply do a SQL injection inserting a boatloat of sessions. You could also hack the SQL DB and manipulate it that way.

 

You are making things a lot more complicated then they need to be. Not only that but espn doesn't do its own geolocation/user tracking, they use an adobe site analysis tool for that. Plus all that stuff is done with JavaScript and not on the back end. They don't store that data in anything themselves, at least not poll related.

 

Also SQL injection is "hack(ing)" the SQL database, and if you got that far to where you could actually just insert data into a dbms you sure heck wouldn't be wasting time with "sessions".

 

I'd add another possibility, you could just basically macro a browser, or emulate enough of one, and have it send pretty much the same requests a human run browser does when you click submit.

 

To get 16,000 responses all at once - when the total hadn't increased in that much over the previous 6 days - it's not some fan sitting in the dark deleting his cookies and refreshing. It's a nerd creating a response object for that particular address, then manipulating the object to form a post w/ the correct response. Same thing that happens when you screen scrape. Either that or one of the other above suggested methods. It's not difficult, but hacking is certainly a possibility. To dismiss it would mean the person simply has no knowledge of how the internet or websites work.

 

Nobody got 16,000 responses all at once. It was ~20,000 over around 6 hours. To dismiss "hacking" means that I know that emulating a browser submit was how it was done and that anyone suggesting that you need any other fancy web hacking wizardry like SQL injections or Cross site scripting is letting their imaginations run wild. Especially when simply sending the same get requests as espn's flash forms generate is much much easier and much less illegal.

 

Non-working script example:

 

for ($x = 0; $x < 10000; $x++)
{
$vote = 'http://url';

$r = $u->get($vote);

if ( $x % 100 == 0 && $x != 0)
{
	print $x." votes sent";
}
}

 

So anyways anyone who suggests that it was "hacking" is wrong, period. I modified a script I had written years ago when ESPN did "the greatest coaches of all time" and that poll turned into a "macro your browsers" competition with Alabama fans between Osborne and Bryant. I still think this poll is a stupid ad for a usually bad EA sports game, but well I was bored, and had been meaning to play with that script for a few years now. So when this turned into a silly school pride competition complete with 2000 post long comment sections of really stupid people repeating the same arguments and trashing each-other for hours on end, it was just too funny an opportunity for amusement to pass up. I guess I did it for the Lulz.

Huh?

 

So somebody tell me why doesn't the - key on my calculator do the same thing as the (-) key?

[eliot1171]

Round three is up and the first post is updated for links.

[okaive]

Well we are losing as of now.

[Hercules]

Well we are losing as of now.

 

It's ok, redblooded will fix it later.

[redblooded]

Well we are losing as of now.

 

It's ok, redblooded will fix it later.

 

already done.

[NebraskaShellback]

I voted, we are 53% and the Ohio State is 47%. How many rounds are there?