Bo vs. Callahan

[caveman99]

I posted this in another thread on the Football Board, but I thought it would make a good discussion topic here. I went ahead and pulled the recruiting numbers from Rivals to compare Bo to Callahan. I keep seeing posts like, "Bo can't win without Callahan's recruits" and "Since Bo can recruit is not for long in this job now that he has zero Callahan recruits to put on the field." While I can't say for sure how long Bo will be the Coach, I wanted to show everyone that Bo is indeed bringing in the talent on a similar, if not better rate, than Callahan. My biggest gripe with Bo is on roster management. With that said, onto the numbers:

 

Bo

2012 - 9 verbal commits, average star rating of 3.56 (5ea 4 Stars, 4ea 3 Stars)

2011 - 19 signees, average star rating of 3.53 (11ea 4 Stars, 7ea 3 Stars)

2010 - 21 signees, average star rating of 3.24 (8ea 4 Stars, 10ea 3 Stars)

2009 - 20 signees, average star rating of 3.25 (5ea 4 Stars, 15ea 3 Stars)

2008 - 28 signees, average star rating of 2.96 (1ea 5 Star, 2ea 4 Stars, 20ea 3 Stars)

 

97 signees/verbals, average star rating of 3.25 [1ea 5 Star (1%), 31ea 4 Stars (32%), 56ea 3 Stars (58%)]

 

Callahan

2007 - 27 signees, average star rating of 3.33 (10 ea 4 Stars, 16ea 3 Stars)

2006 - 22 signees, average star rating of 3.27 (1ea 5 Stars, 5 ea 4 Stars, 15ea 3 Stars)

2005 - 30 signees, average star rating of 3.33 (2ea 5 Stars, 11ea 4 Stars, 12ea 3 Stars)

2004 - 18 signees, average star rating of 2.83 (2ea 4 Stars, 11ea 3 Stars)

 

97 signees, average star rating of 3.22 [3ea 5 Stars (3%), 28ea 4 Stars (29%), 54ea 3 Stars (56%)]

 

A few things to note IMO:

1. Bo has slightly outdone Callahan in average star rating and the # of 4 and 3 Star recruits brought in.

2. Callahan brought in 2 more 5 stars in his time and has the advantage of bringing in a higher number per year.

a. Callahan's average signee count over 4 years was 24.25

b. Bo's average signee count over his first 4 years was 22, and his 2012 class won't help that average. If Bo signs 16 this year, his average will fall to 20.8.

c. The average attrition rate is around 50% from what I have been able to find. This means Callahan would find 12 players each year to Bo's 10, that adds up to 8 players over 4 years.

 

You can't bang on Bo for not bringing in the talent, you can bang on him for not bringing in enough of it IMO. That is an issue with roster management, not his or his staff's ability to recruit.

[dylan]

the average class size under callahan had a lot to do with how many juco kids he brought in. the 2005 class alone had 12, allowing for the huge size of the 2007 class when most of them were already gone. easy to recruit more kids when they're only there for two seasons. so, unless your argument there is that bo should rely more on jucos, i'd say you missed your mark.

 

and fwiw, i think bo handles juco recruiting perfectly. does a great job of going after kids that are actual difference makers most of the time

 

as to bo's roster management style, i like the fact that NU keeps non-contributors on schollie if they want to stay here and keep their noses clean. one of NU's few strong suits in recruiting is that we will take care of your kids (ie, honor our word, get them a degree, keep them out of trouble, etc.).

[caveman99]

the average class size under callahan had a lot to do with how many juco kids he brought in. the 2005 class alone had 12, allowing for the huge size of the 2007 class when most of them were already gone. easy to recruit more kids when they're only there for two seasons. so, unless your argument there is that bo should rely more on jucos, i'd say you missed your mark.

 

and fwiw, i think bo handles juco recruiting perfectly. does a great job of going after kids that are actual difference makers most of the time

 

as to bo's roster management style, i like the fact that NU keeps non-contributors on schollie if they want to stay here and keep their noses clean. one of NU's few strong suits in recruiting is that we will take care of your kids (ie, honor our word, get them a degree, keep them out of trouble, etc.).

Don't get me wrong, I am not for extreme culling. I will disagree about allowing everyone to stay on though. If the young man isn't going to work for it and is content to coast, he shouldn't have a scholly.

 

I agree with you on how well Bo manages the influx of JUCOs, but I didn't miss the mark on Callahan and your 2005 example is flawed. By your logic Callahan brought in a bunch of JUCOs in 2003 making room for 30 in 2005, since Frank recruited the 2003 class this isn't true. Callahan also only took 3 JUCOs in 2004. Callahan still found space for 30 players in 2005.

[dylan]

the average class size under callahan had a lot to do with how many juco kids he brought in. the 2005 class alone had 12, allowing for the huge size of the 2007 class when most of them were already gone. easy to recruit more kids when they're only there for two seasons. so, unless your argument there is that bo should rely more on jucos, i'd say you missed your mark.

 

and fwiw, i think bo handles juco recruiting perfectly. does a great job of going after kids that are actual difference makers most of the time

 

as to bo's roster management style, i like the fact that NU keeps non-contributors on schollie if they want to stay here and keep their noses clean. one of NU's few strong suits in recruiting is that we will take care of your kids (ie, honor our word, get them a degree, keep them out of trouble, etc.).

Don't get me wrong, I am not for extreme culling. I will disagree about allowing everyone to stay on though. If the young man isn't going to work for it and is content to coast, he shouldn't have a scholly.

 

I agree with you on how well Bo manages the influx of JUCOs, but I didn't miss the mark on Callahan and your 2005 example is flawed. By your logic Callahan brought in a bunch of JUCOs in 2003 making room for 30 in 2005, since Frank recruited the 2003 class this isn't true. Callahan also only took 3 JUCOs in 2004. Callahan still found space for 30 players in 2005.

 

i agree that if a young man doesn't work hard and hold up his end, he doesn't need to stay on scholarship.

 

also, callahan didn't just "find space". you either have room or you don't and it comes from players graduating or leaving (for whatever reason). it's a simple fact though that callahan had room for a huge class in 2007 because he brought in so many jucos in 2005. i don't have the instant recall or the time to research the reasons behind the size of the 2005 class, but that has little to do with the increase in callahans average class size due to the number of jucos in that 2005 class alone.

[flatwaterfan]

I also think that Bo is probably averaging a few scholarships less because he is awarding some to deserving walkon's. My guess is that he has more contributing walkon's than B.C did.

[NoLongerN]

No need for me to debate any stats. This was great info. Thanks for posting.

[HuskerFowler]

Goes to show you why we are going to be a little inconsistent this year and next, his 2008 recruiting class was terrible. He only had a month or 2 to put it all together, and really wasnt a well known name. Thats why we are seeing so many walkons and fresh, sohp playing this year....that 2008 class. This is why we are young, inexperienced and inconsistent. And we still won 9 games maybe 10, this year. What hes done this year just shows you how good Bo and his staff are coaching up the minimal talent that we have. Wait til his 10 11 and 12 class hits juniors and seniors, if we arent more consistent and competing for championships, then i think we will have something to complain about.

[Forge]

Thanks for putting that together caveman, i didnt know the averages were so close to each other.

 

My main concern for Bo's recruiting isnt the stars, its knowing what players have the brains to pick up the scheme. Seems like Cally could recruit physically and mentally talented kids...... just couldnt develop or coach any of them. Bo came in and coached the hell out of Callys guys and made a huge impact with them. I am afraid we dont have the brains on the feild we did the last few years. Talent is there, but brains seem to be lacking. Is it the kids not able to grasp it, or is the coaching unable to effectively teach it? I will say Beck has done a decent job with how complicated his system can be (multiple blocking in same play/formations, etc.).

 

I will say that kids seem to love JP, Raymond, Beck, Brown and Els. I just hope they can teach/develop these kids.

[dylan]

what gives you the idea that callahan brought in smarter kids? also, what makes you think we have a complicated offense? compared to what? it's certainly simpler than what we had before.

 

the only position i would say the mental part of the game has been a big problem at is QB, and i think taylor has improved significantly on his brain fart plays this year.

[Forge]

Most of his Cally's kids coached up pretty well either in the NFL or under Pelini.

 

Offense is not as complicated or as large as WC, but the Wide Receivers actually have to read coverage and defenses, the line has several blocking schemes for the same play and formation. We run a lot of different formations. For a first year offense, its complicated.

 

As for players not getting it, Fisher at LB, DB's for the first 3/4 of the season, DE's, WRs not lining up properly and missing blocks, etc. Most of our defensive letdowns came off of missed coverage, missed gaps, not reading the blockers, etc. Defense felt very young and in-exeperienced for being in the system for a few years now.

 

As for this year, recruiting isnt looking good. I am excited about Armstrong and McMullen, and hoping we land Peat; but concerend about the low number this late, no matter if we are only taking 15ish kids.

[dylan]

"Most of his Cally's kids coached up pretty well either in the NFL or under Pelini. "

 

- disagree that "most" of them did and still see no evidence of any difference between the mental abilities of the two groups

 

"Offense is not as complicated or as large as WC, but the Wide Receivers actually have to read coverage and defenses, the line has several blocking schemes for the same play and formation. We run a lot of different formations. For a first year offense, its complicated."

 

-complicated compared to what? what offense isn't complicated? i do think the kids will get better at it after they spend more than one season in it, but what offense isn't that true about?

 

 

"As for players not getting it, Fisher at LB, DB's for the first 3/4 of the season, DE's, WRs not lining up properly and missing blocks, etc. Most of our defensive letdowns came off of missed coverage, missed gaps, not reading the blockers, etc. Defense felt very young and in-exeperienced for being in the system for a few years now. "

 

the defense backfield was young and inexperienced, particularly when dennard was out, but that will happen when you have so many new players back there and a first year DB coach. seeing the way stafford and green improved through the season, i'm not sure you can claim there is a lack of intelligence, more like a lack of experience. i would also add that two of the studs that so spoiled us with great DB play were pelini recruits (gomes, dennard).

 

and i'm sorry, but listing fisher is pretty ridiculous considering he's an academic all-american and his on field struggles have everything to do with ability.

 

"As for this year, recruiting isnt looking good. I am excited about Armstrong and McMullen, and hoping we land Peat; but concerend about the low number this late, no matter if we are only taking 15ish kids."

 

i don't blame people for being concerned, but this staff has a history of solid classes and the guys committed have a high average star rating (for those that care about that sort of thing). we're still in on a lot of talented kids and i can pretty well guarantee we'll be happy with the class at the end of the day.

[NUance]

Callahan was a pretty good recruiter. Or at least, so I thought. But for whatever reason is seems like a lot of his highly ranked recruits did not contribute. Injuries, grades, flakiness, or just not that good. Some of the guys who come to mind—all 4* recruits—who didn't make much of an impact at NU: Harrison Beck, Jaivorio Burkes, Leon Jackson, William Yancy, Joseph Townsend, and probably another dozen or so who made only a minimal impact for the scholie we invested in them.

 

It's a little early to tell, but I have the impression that Pelini’s highly ranked recruits are making more of an impact.

[PaulCrewe]

Callahan was a pretty good recruiter. Or at least, so I thought. But for whatever reason is seems like a lot of his highly ranked recruits did not contribute. Injuries, grades, flakiness, or just not that good. Some of the guys who come to mind—all 4* recruits—who didn't make much of an impact at NU: Harrison Beck, Jaivorio Burkes, Leon Jackson, William Yancy, Joseph Townsend, and probably another dozen or so who made only a minimal impact for the scholie we invested in them.

 

It's a little early to tell, but I have the impression that Pelini’s highly ranked recruits are making more of an impact.

Wouldn't lump this guy in with the rest. He would have played and contributed a bunch if it weren't for his health issues. Namely a tricky ticker.

 

Also Leon Jackson could have been a stud if they left him on the offensive side of the ball. Let him take reps at RB but primarily in the slot. Could have been a monster, IMO.

[dylan]

agree on burkes, not on leon. he went to a wide open offense against WAC defenses and still didn't do a great deal. i think callahan's recruiting was somewhat overrated, particularly due to the aforementioned over-reliance on juco's, but there's no doubt he did bring some studs in, just not enough. he also recruited way too many WR's and didn't recruit enough OL, which hamstrung us pretty good. i'll take pelini's recruiting to this point over callahans, both in quality on the field and in methods. cally relied too much on selling playing time and NFL futures, which is poisonous to the concept of team that is so necessary to a program like ours that is rarely, if ever, going to have the most "pure talent" in the country. instead, bo focuses on kids that want to work hard, win and be part of a team.

[caveman99]

One thing I will look at is the recruiting by position for both. I think we are seeing some issues at positions like LB due to a lull in hits at those positions in a few classes. I think this may answer some Forges questions.