Cactusboy Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 They aren't and you didn't answer my questions. I said "I just want to be clear on that before we move on." So of course I haven't answered your questions yet. If the OJ killing, the urination and the hostage situations were justified is a different subject than that we agree we understand why the people did them. I just want to make it clear we have both said we agree on this part. NOW...your questions of: were their actions justified? well..the US overthrew Iran's democratically elected leader and installed a brutal dictator because they didn't like that Iran nationalized their oil, basically saying you don't decide what you do w/ your oil...WE do. I dont' know what Iran's options were in dealing w/ this. I don't know what their capabilities were. What would the US to do if a country overthrew our POTUS and installed a dictator? We'd probably go to war. They took hostages and none died. From the details I know I would say it was justified. If you can provide any detaild that I'm not aware of than can show it's not I'm willing to listen and consider them. the pissing on dead bodies by our soldiers was not justified. I can't think of any scenario when it would be. Were their actions approvable by the United States? By their foreign government? The hosages were taken as a part of the Iranian revolution which finally threw out their brutal dictator that we installed. I don't think it was approved by their govt. I doubt the pissing was approved either. Your turn to answer your own questions. Link to comment
walksalone Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 We don't know all the facts leading up to the death of the four Blackwater contractors, but if I was a betting person I would wager on the side that they deserved what they got. kind of like those folks at Khobar Towers or the guys on the USS Cole Link to comment
Cactusboy Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 We don't know all the facts leading up to the death of the four Blackwater contractors, but if I was a betting person I would wager on the side that they deserved what they got. There is a pretty good run down of what happened in the book "Blackwater". They Blackwater guys basically were sent into a hornets nest that was still buzzing from the first gulf war when a smart missle went off course, into a residential area and killed 130 civilians and then you can read more context direct from the book from the link below. It starts w/ the highlighted part. http://books.google....sion%22&f=false Link to comment
Sub-Husker Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 We don't know all the facts leading up to the death of the four Blackwater contractors, but if I was a betting person I would wager on the side that they deserved what they got. kind of loke those folks at Khobar Towers or the guys on the USS Cole That is a disgusting and hate-filled analogy. You have defined the type of person you are. Link to comment
walksalone Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 We don't know all the facts leading up to the death of the four Blackwater contractors, but if I was a betting person I would wager on the side that they deserved what they got. kind of loke those folks at Khobar Towers or the guys on the USS Cole That is a disgusting and hate-filled analogy. You have defined the type of person you are. It's ok, didn't think it'd be understood... Link to comment
redblooded Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 LOL, seriously even everyone agreeing some things that shouldn't happen do, and s*** happens in war won't end a thread. Link to comment
Muck Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 We don't know all the facts leading up to the death of the four Blackwater contractors, but if I was a betting person I would wager on the side that they deserved what they got. And a few posts later you actually tried to climb onto a moral soapbox with a straight face. Pathetic. Link to comment
VectorVictor Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 LOL, seriously even everyone agreeing some things that shouldn't happen do, and s*** happens in war won't end a thread. Ah, but it is the degree of which we agree which is up for debate now. Or, to paraphrase the Ents from Lord of the Rings, we just got done saying 'hello'. Link to comment
Sub-Husker Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 We don't know all the facts leading up to the death of the four Blackwater contractors, but if I was a betting person I would wager on the side that they deserved what they got. And a few posts later you actually tried to climb onto a moral soapbox with a straight face. Pathetic. We have a new tressel-troll here! Link to comment
Muck Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 We have a new tressel-troll here! Oh no please don't get side tracked, you were telling us how Mike, Scott, Zerko & Wes deserved to be beaten to death and having their bodies mutilated. Please continue to illuminate us with your personal beacon of open minded, peace, love and understanding. Link to comment
walksalone Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 We have a new tressel-troll here! Oh no please don't get side tracked, you were telling us how Mike, Scott, Zerko & Wes deserved to be beaten to death and having their bodies mutilated. Please continue to illuminate us with your personal beacon of open minded, peace, love and understanding. It's what I was trying to express earlier... Those 4 blackwater guys deserved what happened to them, as much as the kids at Khobar Towers, or on the USS Cole. Simple fact is, that they didn't. The earlier myopic response to what I'd said was made quickly & irrationally, without putting any actual thought into it. So, if I've got this right, if our troops are somewhere they don't belong, they get what they deserved, like the Rangers in Mogadishu. Link to comment
Sub-Husker Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 We don't know all the facts leading up to the death of the four Blackwater contractors, but if I was a betting person I would wager on the side that they deserved what they got. This is what I originally wrote. With the rage expressed at me and the comment by Walks and Muck, I reaaly doubt that they correctly read it. As I said, we don't know what happened, but Blackwater mercenaries have a history in Iraq. What we do know is that a congressional report by the House Oversight Committee found that Blackwater intentionally "delayed and impeded" investigations into the contractors' deaths. That report found the company neglegent of proving proper security and equipment for the team of four. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3008701 Hopefully a list of civilian abuse by Blackwater personnel in Iraq isn't needed, but here is one story. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/22/usa.iraq%3Fgusrc%3Drss%26feed%3Dnetworkfront&cid=1228936507&ei=CmWHSM2RCqCQ6APyn8jWAQ&usg=AFQjCNFZYu5IHfmSkqjrfUv_ptRmsptnug Hence my comment "if I was a betting person I would wager on the side that they deserved what they got" was based on the history of the company and not the individuals. The earlier myopic response to what I'd said was made quickly & irrationally, without putting any actual thought into it. So, if I've got this right, if our troops are somewhere they don't belong, they get what they deserved, like the Rangers in Mogadishu. If our troops are in a combat zone, or seen as an occupying force, then it should be expected that someone would want to harm them. To not expect that would be, as you said, "myopic". Link to comment
knapplc Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I find it interesting that you are OK with the deaths of Americans because they worked for a company that has done bad things. The implication being that they are guilty by association. Yet in the Drone thread you are decrying the deaths of "innocent" civilians, despite knowing that those drones do not target civilians, meaning they are either enemy combatants or hanging with enemy combatants, yet the guilt-by-association idea doesn't surface in that conversation. Link to comment
Sub-Husker Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Seriously... can we get back to reading what was actually written in a post before we criticize? If we quoted what we were resoponding to and the words were there to see, we could eliminate alot of assuming and misrepresentation. I find it interesting that you are OK with the deaths of Americans because they worked for a company that has done bad things. The implication being that they are guilty by association What we have here is a massive abilty ro read with comprihension on a large god-damned scale. What I said was... We don't know all the facts leading up to the death of the four Blackwater contractors, but if I was a betting person I would wager on the side that they deserved what they got. I did not say they deserved what they f'ing got, I said that based on the history of their employer it was feasible that they may have acted in such a manner. Yet in the Drone thread you are decrying the deaths of "innocent" civilians, despite knowing that those drones do not target civilians, meaning they are either enemy combatants or hanging with enemy combatants, yet the guilt-by-association idea doesn't surface in that conversation. How familiar are you with the demographics and the culture of the Pashtun people? It is a tribal society, and most men in the countrside are armed. We have classified them as "militants" on their own land, doing what they have always done. And because they are classified as militants, are you saying that they and anyoneone near them deserves to be killed? If that is what you are saying, then that would be OKaying the genosidal approach to peace. Link to comment
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