Why the Biblical God is so Human

[Husker_x]

One of the things that we've talked about on this board, mostly thanks to knapplc, is the human aspect of religion. Religion is a human phenomena. The rituals and ceremonies, doctrines and dogmas, and all the social aspects that form it are man-centered and derived from human psychology. In this web series I recently came across, psychologist Valerie Tarico explores one of the more fascinating aspects of religion, the human psychology of God. In the Abrahamic monotheist traditions, God is an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent being who is unbound by time or space, who has always existed, and who can never die. Yet strangely, when we turn the pages of the bible, we find that God has emotions--love, hate, sadness, regret, anger, tenderness, desire for praise--all of which are human characteristics based upon the construct of a human mind and human psychology as determined by our evolutionary history.

 

This video series explores the fascinating question of why God's emotions so closely reflect our own, along with the cultural differences of these emotions as expressed in religion. It also touches on the science of emotion itself and why the God concept is so appealing to our species. I've pasted the first part below. It's incredibly fascinating stuff. Enjoy!

 

 

[Yossarian]

One of the things that we've talked about on this board, mostly thanks to knapplc, is the human aspect of religion. Religion is a human phenomena. The rituals and ceremonies, doctrines and dogmas, and all the social aspects that form it are man-centered and derived from human psychology. In this web series I recently came across, psychologist Valerie Tarico explores one of the more fascinating aspects of religion, the human psychology of God. In the Abrahamic monotheist traditions, God is an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent being who is unbound by time or space, who has always existed, and who can never die. Yet strangely, when we turn the pages of the bible, we find that God has emotions--love, hate, sadness, regret, anger, tenderness, desire for praise--all of which are human characteristics based upon the construct of a human mind and human psychology as determined by our evolutionary history.

 

This video series explores the fascinating question of why God's emotions so closely reflect our own, along with the cultural differences of these emotions as expressed in religion. It also touches on the science of emotion itself and why the God concept is so appealing to our species. I've pasted the first part below. It's incredibly fascinating stuff. Enjoy!

 

 

 

Facinating, indeed.

 

I am an atheist, but like Albert Einstein, when I look out into space using my telescope, I can surely understand how someone would believe in a greater being. It is truly awesome, and I/we are so small and insignificant.

[NUance]

One of the things that we've talked about on this board, mostly thanks to knapplc, is the human aspect of religion. Religion is a human phenomena. The rituals and ceremonies, doctrines and dogmas, and all the social aspects that form it are man-centered and derived from human psychology. In this web series I recently came across, psychologist Valerie Tarico explores one of the more fascinating aspects of religion, the human psychology of God. In the Abrahamic monotheist traditions, God is an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent being who is unbound by time or space, who has always existed, and who can never die. Yet strangely, when we turn the pages of the bible, we find that God has emotions--love, hate, sadness, regret, anger, tenderness, desire for praise--all of which are human characteristics based upon the construct of a human mind and human psychology as determined by our evolutionary history.

 

This video series explores the fascinating question of why God's emotions so closely reflect our own, along with the cultural differences of these emotions as expressed in religion. It also touches on the science of emotion itself and why the God concept is so appealing to our species. I've pasted the first part below. It's incredibly fascinating stuff. Enjoy!

 

 

meh. Why do people with no belief in God go to such great lengths produce stuff like this? I think they must crave attention. And they know they’ll get it by trolling Christians. I feel sorry for these people.

[Omaha-Husker]

meh. Why do people with no belief in God go to such great lengths produce stuff like this? I think they must crave attention. And they know they’ll get it by trolling Christians. I feel sorry for these people.

 

Religion is one of the longest lasting practices in human history. I think it is natural for people to be interested in the concepts, themes and impacts wether they believe in a higher being or not. I find the long history and evolution of religion and how people have interacted with it highly fascinating, doesn't mean I have to believe in it's teachings.

[Husker_x]

meh. Why do people with no belief in God go to such great lengths produce stuff like this? I think they must crave attention. And they know they’ll get it by trolling Christians. I feel sorry for these people.

 

 

Interestingly enough, what you wrote is a predictable defensive emotional reaction which lets you avoid having to deal with unpleasant information that might contradict your worldview or cast doubt on some part of it. The science of psychology and its findings on the human brain 'on religion' are pretty fascinating. Science doesn't exist to troll Christians. The fact of the matter is certain centers of the brain are active when we're going through religious experiences. And the minds of gods whether real or created always mirror our psychology. What part of that isn't interesting?

[bennychico11]

meh. Why do people with no belief in God go to such great lengths produce stuff like this? I think they must crave attention. And they know they’ll get it by trolling Christians. I feel sorry for these people.

 

83% of the US population identifies with a religious denomination. 92% believe in a god or "universal spirit."

I don't think it's craving attention but rather trying to understand the beliefs of the majority and the reasons behind them. Because that's a sh#t load of people who don't agree with you on a major issue. And many of those people control the world we live in.

[The Dude]

I don't have time to watch the vid, but I've always wondered why a god who's supposedly omnipotent would create people for the sole need to be worshipped. It makes no sense that an omnipotent being would have any use for worship. Then to send his creation, that he apparently loves, to be tortured for all of eternity if they don't appease that request? Worship certainly seems to be a human need, not a godly one. A true god needs worship no more than he needs air to breath.

[HUSKER 37]

I've often wondered if Man created God in his own image.

[Landlord]

Makes sense.

[The Dude]

I don't have time to watch the vid, but I've always wondered why a god who's supposedly omnipotent would create people for the sole need to be worshipped. It makes no sense that an omnipotent being would have any use for worship. Then to send his creation, that he apparently loves, to be tortured for all of eternity if they don't appease that request? Worship certainly seems to be a human need, not a godly one. A true god needs worship no more than he needs air to breath.

 

 

Yeah, see in the Bible Hell isn't there. Sure they refer to Gehenn/Tartarus/Hades/Sheol and even in Revelation to a Lake of Acid/pit of fire....BUT, Jews have no concept of Hell. Jesus was a Jew.

 

Jesus believed as Jews did or he wouldn't have been allowed in the temple to preach/instruct. Jesus didn't didn't preach about it. I'm sure if it actually did exist and was important, it would have been something he spoke about.

 

Therefore, Hell, as a concept in Christianity today...DID NOT EXIST to Jesus. Hell is an invention of Man to scare people into staying with religion. I'm glad my Christian religion sees past this veil brought up by the Catholic church during the time of Dante's Inferno.

 

Questions to ask if you STILL believe in Hell:

1. Who lives there? Satan doesn't...he resides on the earth after he was cast out of heaven.
   
2. Who created it? Why would God create something like that when he is a loving and forgiving God?
   
3. Sheol is the Hebrew word for 'covered up' and refers to the common grave of mankind. How do you get the concept of Hell from that?
   
4. In Ecclesiastes 9:5 it says the dead are conscious of nothing at all. So how are they being tortured in Hell?
   

 

Sorry about the long winded reply...it just bugs me that everyone lumps 'christians' together with these beliefs.

I get where you're coming from, but so many Christians believe in Hell and believe it to be a place of pain and suffering, and I just don't how they can reconcile themselves with such an idea. Your #2 question is kind of what I was getting at.

 

 

 

And you're right, it does seem in later times the concept of hell was elaborated on, but texts such as these seem to give it a certain basis in the new testament:

 

Matt 25:41: "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels."

Luke 16:24: "And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame."

Revelation 14:10: "...and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb."

[Landlord]

I don't have time to watch the vid, but I've always wondered why a god who's supposedly omnipotent would create people for the sole need to be worshipped. It makes no sense that an omnipotent being would have any use for worship. Then to send his creation, that he apparently loves, to be tortured for all of eternity if they don't appease that request? Worship certainly seems to be a human need, not a godly one. A true god needs worship no more than he needs air to breath.

 

 

Yeah, see in the Bible Hell isn't there. Sure they refer to Gehenn/Tartarus/Hades/Sheol and even in Revelation to a Lake of Acid/pit of fire....BUT, Jews have no concept of Hell. Jesus was a Jew.

 

Jesus believed as Jews did or he wouldn't have been allowed in the temple to preach/instruct. Jesus didn't didn't preach about it. I'm sure if it actually did exist and was important, it would have been something he spoke about.

 

Therefore, Hell, as a concept in Christianity today...DID NOT EXIST to Jesus. Hell is an invention of Man to scare people into staying with religion. I'm glad my Christian religion sees past this veil brought up by the Catholic church during the time of Dante's Inferno.

 

Questions to ask if you STILL believe in Hell:

1. Who lives there? Satan doesn't...he resides on the earth after he was cast out of heaven.
   
2. Who created it? Why would God create something like that when he is a loving and forgiving God?
   
3. Sheol is the Hebrew word for 'covered up' and refers to the common grave of mankind. How do you get the concept of Hell from that?
   
4. In Ecclesiastes 9:5 it says the dead are conscious of nothing at all. So how are they being tortured in Hell?
   

 

Sorry about the long winded reply...it just bugs me that everyone lumps 'christians' together with these beliefs.

 

 

Friend, I'd kindly suggest that you do more scholarly research on this because a lot of your ideas, while definitely a result of investigation and not just blindly accepting the status quo, aren't accurate.

 

The Dude, as far as your original post about it, there is no single reference of the God of Judaism or Christianity needing to be worshipped. God doesn't need us, and we weren't created to fulfill a need; we were created because it brought God glory.

[JJ Husker]

 

Yeah, see in the Bible Hell isn't there. Sure they refer to Gehenn/Tartarus/Hades/Sheol and even in Revelation to a Lake of Acid/pit of fire....BUT, Jews have no concept of Hell. Jesus was a Jew.

 

Jesus believed as Jews did or he wouldn't have been allowed in the temple to preach/instruct. Jesus didn't didn't preach about it. I'm sure if it actually did exist and was important, it would have been something he spoke about.

 

Therefore, Hell, as a concept in Christianity today...DID NOT EXIST to Jesus. Hell is an invention of Man to scare people into staying with religion. I'm glad my Christian religion sees past this veil brought up by the Catholic church during the time of Dante's Inferno.

 

Questions to ask if you STILL believe in Hell:

1. Who lives there? Satan doesn't...he resides on the earth after he was cast out of heaven.
   
2. Who created it? Why would God create something like that when he is a loving and forgiving God?
   
3. Sheol is the Hebrew word for 'covered up' and refers to the common grave of mankind. How do you get the concept of Hell from that?
   
4. In Ecclesiastes 9:5 it says the dead are conscious of nothing at all. So how are they being tortured in Hell?
   

 

Sorry about the long winded reply...it just bugs me that everyone lumps 'christians' together with these beliefs.

 

I'm no Bible scholar but I think Hell is referred to numerous times in the Bible and by Jesus himself. I understand that a few different words were used and the meanings of those words varies some. For instance Hades, Sheol, & Tartarus in translation mean things like, place of the dead, not to be seen, etc. None of these 3 necessarily translate to a place of eternal torment or even consciousness. However, Gehenna, in the context it is used in the bible would indicate a place of fiery torment that souls are conscious of. Sure, literally it was the trash heap outside of Jeruselum and was constantly burning but for what reason would it be referred to so many times as the place where "those" people would be sent for eternity? Fiery furnace, where the worm never dies, fire and sulfur, and on and on. I'm not sure what you or your particular branch of Christianity believes but I assume you believe we have eternal souls. If some of the dead are not with God in heaven then where are they? Do you think ALL who die are with God in heaven simply because he is a loving and forgiving God?

 

1-Who lives there? Those not worthy to be with God in heaven.

2-Who created it? God.

3- I don't get the concept of hell from the word sheol so this does not apply.

4- We can pick and choose verses all day long. Possibly in Ecclesiastes 9:5 they were being referred to as dead but before the judgement. A couple others-

 

Matthew 25:46 And these will depart into eternal punishment but the righteous into eternal life.

John 3:36 The one who believes in the son has eternal life. The one who rejects the son will not see life but God's wrath remains on him.

 

Personally I have no problem with the existence of hell or a place of eternal punishment. What is the purpose of being a Christian (believing Jesus died to redeem your sins) if you don't also believe there is a very good reason to want/need to be saved? There is no compulsion for it if spending eternity without God is not hellish. Actually it is quite hard to comprehend one without the other.

 

I will assume that you do not have a problem with the book of John since you are Christian and John 3:16 is widely known and recognized as a basis for Christianity. What do you think "but God's wrath remains on him" means in John 3:36? God's wrath remaining would indicate to me, while he is a loving and forgiving God, we still have the option of screwing that up and seeing the other side of things.

[Landlord]

 

Friend, I'd kindly suggest that you do more scholarly research on this because a lot of your ideas, while definitely a result of investigation and not just blindly accepting the status quo, aren't accurate.

 

I'd love to know where you think I'm inaccurate. I'm not an 18 year old kid in college for the first time and I do have a degree in Religion...of course, that degree is 15 years old but I guarantee you that I have kept up with the times; new discoveries/texts, new translation, etc. I'm meticulous when it comes to finding the crux of a matter...almost to a determent. So, please do tell me where I'm not accurate so that I can correct my inaccuracy and continue to improve.

 

 

Mostly, it seems you're painting all Jews of all time together into one boat, when there have been differing opinions and viewpoints on the afterlife throughout the history of the OT and onwards. The first sentence of your post basically discredits everything that follows. "Sure they talk about [idea of hell1]/[idea of hell2]/[idea of hell3] ...BUT, Jews have no concept of Hell."

 

All of those are concepts of hell. Jews thought of Gehenna or Gehinnom as a place for those that lived immoral lives. Some thought it was a place of harsh punishment, others a place to simply reflect on their poor lives. Some thought all stayed there for 12 months before ascending to Gan Eden. Some thought the extremely wicked were destroyed or eternally damned after that year-long period.

 

In addition, Sheol is described as a place "dark and deep", "the Land of Forgetfulness" and "The Pit". Not quite congruent with the Hell we know today, but a similar idea. They didn't believe in a concept of punishment or judgment, par se, but a bleak environment for souls after physical death.

 

It's very possible that the default, popular Hell of Christianity is off the mark. I think the very reason that there are varying beliefs throughout Jewish culture in time is because God and those that follow Him has a keen interest in life here and now. It seems to me you are taking some truths about some varying opinions and using them as blankets to cover over all beliefs, and extending those truths to implicate further than they ought (Jews not believing in the Christian Hell of 2012 != Jesus didn't believe in Hell or preach about it).

[JJ Husker]

 

Answering your Numbers: Well there certainly isn't any scriptural support for people not worthy of being with God in heaven being in Hell. There also isn't any scriptural support for God creating Hell. As for sheol, EVERYONE gets the concept of Hell from it so it does apply.

 

More on the Numbers and my reasoning: For me, Hell doesn't exist...it doesn't jive with what a loving God would do...especially if you're a Calvinist or believe in predestination. If you're a believer of this concept, then Hell shows how evil God can be which isn't what Jesus said God was (God is love)...so then Jesus is proven a liar as well.

 

There are more problems with Christian concepts in the Bible if Hell exists than if it doesn't. In other words, reading context of the entire Bible and looking at whether or not Hell jives with what we know God to be makes God look like a schizophrenic evil bastard.

 

Matt 25:46 - yeah it says 'eternal punishment' not 'eternal punishing' which means that there is a definitive end to the punishment that happens. Thus we know it isn't a 'hell' concept they are talking about here. A person either gets eternal life or is punished forever with death. This verse does very well to assist my 'no hell' belief.

 

Belief of one not existing without the other - Really, if we have an 'eternal punishment' of not being in heaven or inheriting the earth due to our sins...I'd say that's motivation enough for most of us.

 

John 3:36 - Wrath staying with a person oppositive of one who has everlasting life shows that we CAN change. We'll be given a chance to change our ways with the resurrection...our sins in this life will be paid for as "the wages of sin is death". So we'll be resurrected (both righteous persons and unrighteous ones...check in Revelation) and we'll be judged by our heart conditions. God gives everyone a chance to change their hearts toward him...and this is what it is referring to. God wrath will remain with that person until the very end or judgement whereupon the memory of them will be no more (paraphrasing Job 18:17 and Prov 10:7).

 

Take a look in the Bible for Gods wrath...look at concepts of the Wrath of God. Most examples don't show people suffering (other than the plagues in Egypt). Why would he change course now? I look at the big picture as much as possible by comparing God throughout the Bible instead of plucking him out of invididual chapters and books as many do.

 

Fair enough. I'm not sure I agree with you (at least until I do some more reading and research) but I'm not sure it matters that much if there is in fact a hell, with eternal torment, or if it is simply an unconscious eternity without God. Either way we should be trying to avoid either of those scenarios and striving for heaven. So, you did at least make me realize that avoiding hell is probably not as compelling of a reason as I may have thought it was. I guess my feelings have a lot to do with human nature and the desire for justice. IMO, there are some people who deserve eternal punishing so therefore I tend to think hell is a worthy destination for them. Luckily for many possibly, I won't be the one determining their eternity.

[bennychico11]

"The idea that good behavior only depends upon your fear of what will happen to you after you die; that you will be punished. Well, that excludes all of philosophy. It excludes Plato, it excludes the mystery cults of Greece, it excludes the Roman idea of what is a good man. There goes Marcus Aurelius, there goes Epictetus, there go the Stoics. These are all better thinkers than anything that the Christian church has come up with in 2,000 years."

-Gore Vidal