Cataclysmic fall

[MichiganDad3]

I'd settle for defensive competence --- no need for genius.

 

I know Jr High coaches with enough "defensive competence" to drill their players in practice often enough that they know how to tackle. That is all we ask here... let our defensive coaching be at that level and the improvement will be great.

 

To add on to the "defensive competence" of Jr. High and High School coaches, they put their 11 best athletes on the field and let them go make plays. Bo's problem has always been choosing players that know the playbook the best -- O'Hanlon, Blatchford, Cassidy, Compton -- over better athletes. Lavonte David started out as third string in 2010 and wouldn't have seen the field much had it not been for Compton and Fisher's preseason injuries.

 

Didn't we have a guy named Mendoza that ran like a 4.2 40 a year or so back? I was always amazed they couldn't find a place for him somewhere. We have to find a way to get our speed on the field. I think this is being corrected as we speak.

 

This is what worries me about this staff; very fast players not not the field. EM needs to play more in my opinion.

 

The 2nd half gives me some hope. The points NU surrendered were due to an interception and two piss poor punts. Beck never ran the ball for the last 13 minutes of the game. Think of how differnt we would be feeling if Beck would have ran the ball down UCLAs throats with Heard and Cross when NU got the ball with 5 minutes to go in the game.

[kchusker_chris]

It all comes down to recruiting, and Bo's first two classes are really hurting us right now. Alot of reaches in those classes, but the past couple of classes are loaded with talent.

but how many of those kids will still be left in the program 3 years from their recruitment? it's a numbers game and the classes are small.

 

4 of the 11 4* guys that made the 2011 class top notch aren't on the roster. 1 just showed up. One can't tackle. Another is a big question mark. Those are our sophomores, and Turner and Abdullah are the only two showing promise. A couple others are seeing a play here an there, but 2-3 out of 20 isn't exactly inspiring.

 

The year before that is almost as bad. a QB that is now a WR. A few guys (david/yoshi) that are now gone. A handful of transfers/no-shows. Enunwa, Bell are the only two impact guys in the 2010 class. SJB is contributing, a couple others have seen the field. But all-in all most haven't gotten into the starting rotation. 2-3 out of 22 isn't exactly inspring.

 

2009 should be the class that's seeing a lot of time right? well a good chunk are gone. Rex was obviously the all-star of the bunch. Taylor obviously. Sirles/Qvale and a couple others. But really only about 4-5 impact players and some others filling holes.

 

 

Bottom line, if we're only getting 2-3 guys on the field after 2-3 years in the system...we've got issues. The 2008 class has a number of starters, not because of quality but out of necessity due to the lack of talent below them. Same with a few guys in the 2009 class. Martin, Ankrah, etc. The 2008/2009 classes wouldn't be hurting us as much as they are if the talent brought in behind them was what we thought it was. But it hasn't been. Or it has and is now playing for another team/sitting at home.

[NUinID]

Rewind back to the 2001 season.

 

Eric Crouch was playing well. There were some holes in the o-line, but the defense seemed to be OK.

 

We beat Oklahoma in the battle of No. 1 vs. No. 2 and looked destined for a Big 12 title game rematch with the Sooners, and, if we were lucky, a chance to win the national title.

 

The rest of the season played out well, until we rolled into Colorado. A huge loss, then we backed into the title game and took our lumps to Miami.

 

2002 opened and we all wished it would have stayed closed. A 7-7 season was unheard of in Nebraska.

 

2003 was better, but still featured ugly beat downs.

 

Enter Bill Callahan and four years marred by blow outs and two non-bowl seasons.

 

That's what I would term to be a cataclysmic fall. And, outside of maybe a few of us, no one saw it coming.

 

Bo Pelini came in 2008 and seemed to restore our hopes for the program

 

We have had nine wins and been to bowl games each year, even won a couple, which was nice.

 

There have been losses. The 2008 blow outs could be excused. But each year has had disappointments. It still seemed like we were a year away, a recruiting class away. It was close.

 

UCLA's win over Nebraska isn't alarming because of the score. It isn't even alarming because the defense gave up a lot of yards.

 

It is alarming because UCLA doesn't seem to be a factor for the Pac 12 title, and they looked to be a heck of a lot more athletic than us. We seem a lot farther away than one year or one recruiting class now.

 

Is Arkansas State going to be the Ball State of 2012? Are we getting close to the cliff? To a cataclysmic fall?

 

How worried should we be? I ask because I would like to be ready for it this time, and not blind sided, as I was in 2001.

 

Thoughts?

 

Cataclsymic? I don't know if I'd go that far. Actually, it's quite remarkable the 2002 season didn't happen in 98'. When TO retired, he left with a lot of the experienced players. We entered into the 98' season with two freshmen QB's with zero experience whatsoever. Ahman was gone. It's somewhat remarkable we didn't see a lot worse season than we did. The reason we didn't was because OU was still reeling from probation, and Texas hadn't gotten it quite together yet. In 2002, OU had already won a NC and Texas was getting pretty dominant. When Solich was fired and Clownahan was brought in, I'm not sure how anyone thought we were going to have a good season in 2004. You can't just dominate when the offense with players recruited for the option are converted to run a prostyle offense without some major losses. Clownahan also brought in very good talent which is why the 2009 team was incredible on the defensive side of the ball. Bo had some sure misses in recruiting in probably the 2008, 2009, and 2010 classes with regards to both OL and DL. Shawn Callahan even addressed it on Big Red Wrapup last night. He basically said we're going to have to get at least two if not three JuCo DL in this upcoming recruiting class.

 

Cataclysmic to me is more or less programs like what Miami is facing. We've seen several teams go through exactly what we're going through. Look at Michigan for instance. Even though Texas hasn't gone through a coaching change, they've had some somewhat dismal seasons ever since Colt McCoy graduated. Washington is another team that went from greatness to being mediocre. Notre Dame is another one. It happens. Losing to UCLA is not the end game for me in any way. UCLA has athletes. I'm very disturbed giving up the second most yards in half a century, but it is what it is. From the rumblings I'm hearing, it sounds as though this week we will be getting out athletes on the field. Competitiveness is all I ask for.

 

I agree arn't we being a little dramatic. I see losing to UCLA as being as a wake up calll similar to the thrashing by MU in 08. The defense actually came back and didn't play too bad the rest of that year. Things need to be rectified and quickly. Hopefully they get some younger more athletic guys on the field. Hopefully they practice tackling a lot. The tackling is what really killed them in that game. Missed tackles happen, but that was terrible. Get rid of 75% of the missed tackles and UCLA has 200 less yards of offense.

 

I really think you need to give UCLA some credit also. They have talent, Skippy recruited pretty well. Look at there schedule. They could only lose a couple of games this year. We will have to wait and see though, just like we will have to wait and see about NU.

[FLU]

It all comes down to recruiting, and Bo's first two classes are really hurting us right now. Alot of reaches in those classes, but the past couple of classes are loaded with talent.

but how many of those kids will still be left in the program 3 years from their recruitment? it's a numbers game and the classes are small.

 

4 of the 11 4* guys that made the 2011 class top notch aren't on the roster. 1 just showed up. One can't tackle. Another is a big question mark. Those are our sophomores, and Turner and Abdullah are the only two showing promise. A couple others are seeing a play here an there, but 2-3 out of 20 isn't exactly inspiring.

 

The year before that is almost as bad. a QB that is now a WR. A few guys (david/yoshi) that are now gone. A handful of transfers/no-shows. Enunwa, Bell are the only two impact guys in the 2010 class. SJB is contributing, a couple others have seen the field. But all-in all most haven't gotten into the starting rotation. 2-3 out of 22 isn't exactly inspring.

 

2009 should be the class that's seeing a lot of time right? well a good chunk are gone. Rex was obviously the all-star of the bunch. Taylor obviously. Sirles/Qvale and a couple others. But really only about 4-5 impact players and some others filling holes.

 

 

Bottom line, if we're only getting 2-3 guys on the field after 2-3 years in the system...we've got issues. The 2008 class has a number of starters, not because of quality but out of necessity due to the lack of talent below them. Same with a few guys in the 2009 class. Martin, Ankrah, etc. The 2008/2009 classes wouldn't be hurting us as much as they are if the talent brought in behind them was what we thought it was. But it hasn't been. Or it has and is now playing for another team/sitting at home.

 

agreed

[HuskerT]

Lot of good points on the subject, I for one agree with the idea that Bo seriously needs to loosen up on his philosophy of experience over youth. He really needs to start looking at getting the best athletes on the field and coaching them up as much as possible. If Bo's defense is too complicated for younger guys to understand than he needs to simplify things and play to their strengths. It's a different time in college football, spread offenses and aerial attacks are the norm, which means you must have faster and more athletic players on defense who can cover more ground. Will Compton and Alonzo Whaley may have a better grasp of the defensive playbook, but if their not fast or athletic enough to keep up with these offenses than what difference does it make. The SEC has done this for years now, they recruit the best athletes possible, put them on defense and coach em up. Heck, we took a page from Florida st. and Miami and started doing this in the early 90's and that paid off pretty good.

[tmfr15]

The fear that I am talking about with this year's group is not completely unfounded. And, at the same time, might be simply a sign of panic at seeing a situation play out that I have seen before.

 

Solich was about four years in when we realized that his recruiting was bad and that we were in trouble, the Colorado and Miami games were complicated by the 7-7 season that followed and we fired the coach (probably too early). We haven't been "Back" siince.

 

Callahan was trying to turn it around and "learning on the job." In year four we gave up a BIG rushing number to USC, lost, but I felt like that was a very quality team. And didn't panic. Ball State, a mid-major team, piled on more yards. Still, no one would have predicted the carnage that followed. It was some of the worst defensive football we've seen... EVER.

 

UCLA posted a HUGE number on the ground and a HUGE overall yardage total on Saturday. Bo is "learning on the job." He is in year five. If we come out and play well in games to come and the defense gets better, this thread was an over reaction, and, quite frankly, I will rejoice. If we win on Saturday but give up a BIG number in terms of yardage, I will worry even more. It seems completely unlikely we will see a repeat of 2007 horrible-ness, but then, again, I would not have predicted the 2007 horrible-ness either.

[nhuskers5]

I'd settle for defensive competence --- no need for genius.

 

I know Jr High coaches with enough "defensive competence" to drill their players in practice often enough that they know how to tackle. That is all we ask here... let our defensive coaching be at that level and the improvement will be great.

 

To add on to the "defensive competence" of Jr. High and High School coaches, they put their 11 best athletes on the field and let them go make plays. Bo's problem has always been choosing players that know the playbook the best -- O'Hanlon, Blatchford, Cassidy, Compton -- over better athletes. Lavonte David started out as third string in 2010 and wouldn't have seen the field much had it not been for Compton and Fisher's preseason injuries.

 

That's worked out well, in some cases (O'Hanlon and Compton), so I don't see that as a total fail.

[FriendlyLurker2007]

i think the defense will get better, therefore it wont be a cataclysmic fall...also like someone else mentioned, as more of bo's recruits that saw how good his defenses could be start playing in years to come, we should be pretty good that is if he picked good players and coach them well. as of right now, we just need to make the friggen tackles when we have the chance, if this defense is at least serviceable we could have a pretty good season considering this offense imo is very dangerous.

[Count 'Bility]

Solich would still be here to this day winning 9-10 games and an occasional conference championship maybe had Pedersen not had such a "new vision" for the program. And I truly believe this. He may have made the changes a year too late, but Frank made the changes, and I think Bo will too.

 

As far as tackling goes, that issue also leads me to moreso believe that the scheme is not the issue. Guys were in position all night long and missed tackles. As said earlier, if we make the plays, we hold UCLA to 300 yards and probaly 14-17 points and instead of meltdown mode we're talking possible National Championship this week. That's how much difference 6 points is around here.

[The Dude]

4 of the 11 4* guys that made the 2011 class top notch aren't on the roster. 1 just showed up. One can't tackle. Another is a big question mark. Those are our sophomores, and Turner and Abdullah are the only two showing promise. A couple others are seeing a play here an there, but 2-3 out of 20 isn't exactly inspiring.

 

Sophomores and redshirt Freshman. We haven't seen a lot of the redshirt guys yet, but did you expect to 2 games into their freshman season?

 

The year before that is almost as bad. a QB that is now a WR. A few guys (david/yoshi) that are now gone. A handful of transfers/no-shows. Enunwa, Bell are the only two impact guys in the 2010 class. SJB is contributing, a couple others have seen the field. But all-in all most haven't gotten into the starting rotation. 2-3 out of 22 isn't exactly inspring.

Cooper is starting at dime. Mitchell is starting at CB. Rome has been starting at DT, but who knows where that will go. . . Heard is buried behind Rex and Abdullah in the depth chart, but we know what he can bring to the table. Ciante Evans is starting at nickel. Tyler Evans is behind Turner in the WR rotation, Harvey Jackson has been right there in the starting rotation. Andrew Rodriguez is basically 1b at right tackle, he sees plenty of time. Jake Cotton was injured last year, but has already provided some depth on the offensive line. Who knows what we'll get out of him.

 

Could be better, but saying "2-3 out of 22" is being disingenuous.

[gratefullred]

I hate to jump on this bandwagon considering problems that it leads to, but my gut tells me we need to bring in a few more JuCo transfers. The state of KS has some of the best JuCo's in the country. There's no reason to let KState have it's pick of the litter every year. Snyder has made a living with JuCo's. We've gotten some very good talent in the past from JuCo's. I'd like to see us hit it a little harder especially with regards to the OL, DL, and LB.

Nu under Pelini has regularly taken around 4 JUCOs. JUCO players are risky, they are at a JUCO for a reason and I would want to see any more than 6 in a large class. I think we have offered around 6 or 7 this year which I feel is about right.

[gratefullred]

It all comes down to recruiting, and Bo's first two classes are really hurting us right now. Alot of reaches in those classes, but the past couple of classes are loaded with talent.

Agreed! Now if we can just keep them from transferring!

We have had a lot of bad luck misses in recruiting. I feel the conference change is effecting our D right now. It is hard to build a D to stop the spread, then turn it around to stop the run heavy B1G.

 

I do remember last year the D was gashed by Fresno St and Washington. The D will get better if for the sole reason that B1G offense is bad.

[Count 'Bility]

4 of the 11 4* guys that made the 2011 class top notch aren't on the roster. 1 just showed up. One can't tackle. Another is a big question mark. Those are our sophomores, and Turner and Abdullah are the only two showing promise. A couple others are seeing a play here an there, but 2-3 out of 20 isn't exactly inspiring.

 

Sophomores and redshirt Freshman. We haven't seen a lot of the redshirt guys yet, but did you expect to 2 games into their freshman season?

 

The year before that is almost as bad. a QB that is now a WR. A few guys (david/yoshi) that are now gone. A handful of transfers/no-shows. Enunwa, Bell are the only two impact guys in the 2010 class. SJB is contributing, a couple others have seen the field. But all-in all most haven't gotten into the starting rotation. 2-3 out of 22 isn't exactly inspring.

Cooper is starting at dime. Mitchell is starting at CB. Rome has been starting at DT, but who knows where that will go. . . Heard is buried behind Rex and Abdullah in the depth chart, but we know what he can bring to the table. Ciante Evans is starting at nickel. Tyler Evans is behind Turner in the WR rotation, Harvey Jackson has been right there in the starting rotation. Andrew Rodriguez is basically 1b at right tackle, he sees plenty of time. Jake Cotton was injured last year, but has already provided some depth on the offensive line. Who knows what we'll get out of him.

 

Could be better, but saying "2-3 out of 22" is being disingenuous.

 

Epic forshadowing here. You were an hour ahead of your time.

[shyndy]

Seriously though, "how worried should we be?" I'm not really going to worry at all because I'm just a fan and I can't actually do anything about it. I'm just going to watch the games and hope for the best. Should be fun to watch our O this year either way, even 2007 had its bright spots

[Husker71]

I'm not totally worried personally yet. I'm tired of the roller coaster, but my theory is that Pelini got spread too thin with concerns on offense and went on autopilot on the defense fundamentals. For much of Bo's tenure the defense was the lesser concern. Despite the disappointment with Beck and Martinez toward the end of the UCLA game, to me the progress is undeniable and this allows Pelini to get back to the basic and his passion for defense. I'm betting that in the long term this gets fixed.

 

The only thing that nags at me is that EVERY year we talk about tackling issues like it is a new problem we've never seen before. That is getting old.