Obama Equal Pay?

[Ziggy]

I know the source is flawed, but I was looking around and this was the first thing that popped up. I have no facts or figures, but just thought it might spark a good debate.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/10/19/women-in-obama-white-house-earn-less-than-men-amid-equal-pay-debate/

 

If nothing else Knapp and Carl might have an coronary embolism just looking at the link.

[ShawnWatson]

I know the source is flawed. I have no facts or figures

 

Solid argument.

[krc1995]

you get paid what your worth.

[Moiraine]

you get paid what your worth.

 

That's bullsh#t, and I hope you don't have to write anything for a living.

[carlfense]

What's Romney's position today on Lilly Ledbetter?

 

(This answer might have to be updated periodically.)

[BigRedBuster]

I find it interesting that nobody in this thread has made comment on the actual article that was posted.

[carlfense]

I find it interesting that nobody in this thread has made comment on the actual article that was posted.

I'll be honest . . . when I first opened your link I got this far . . .

The figure comes with plenty of caveats.

They didn't really explain them. (I read it all the way through this time.)

 

Do you believe in equal pay for equal work? How about the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act? Obama signed that . . . should he have? Would Romney?

[strigori]

the difference appears to be not that women are routinely paid less than men for the same job -- but paid less because there's not as many women in the highest echelons as there are men.

 

Well right there is the whole caveat. Equal pay is primarily about equal pay for equal work.

[BigRedBuster]

I find it interesting that nobody in this thread has made comment on the actual article that was posted.

I'll be honest . . . when I first opened your link I got this far . . .

The figure comes with plenty of caveats.

They didn't really explain them. (I read it all the way through this time.)

 

Do you believe in equal pay for equal work? How about the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act? Obama signed that . . . should he have? Would Romney?

 

 

I honestly don't know what hte "Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act" is. Sorry, I just don't.

 

However, let me answer the question this way.

 

I have a mother who was a professional educated person. My sister is educated and works very hard in a mans industry. My wife is a CFO of a major construction company. I have two daughters who will be in the work force some day. When I was in college, I worked in the health care industry where most of my coworkers were women and most of my bosses were women also.

 

Now that I am a boss I employ many women and some of them are in managerial and professional positions and get paid very well. Sexism in the work place pisses me off and I won't stand for it. I honestly don't understand it when a man looks down on a woman in the work place or thinks they are worth less as an employee.

 

So, I am all for equal pay for women doing the same job with the same experience. My wife has been on both ends of that. She has worked in places where she was treated as an equal and been in places where she wasn't. It's interesting to me that the places where she was treated as an equal, the company was more successful. I tend to believe that is in part due to their attitude towards their employees.

The same can be said about minorities. I honestly don't understand a boss who does not understand that diversity in his employee base is good.

 

That said, I will give one example where I think women sometimes fall behind and my wife fully understands it. My wife worked for a while right out of college and was on a good career path. Then, we started having kids and she believed it was more important to be at home for about 8-10 years while the kids were little. Our kids were better off for it and that honestly was the happiest time of my wife's life.

 

However, she understood that when she reentered the work place, she was not going to be able to just step back in in the same spot for the same pay she was at when she left. She was at least 8 years out of the work place and many people in her position had 8 more years of experience. Obviously, I don't believe that if she was hired to replace someone who had been in that position during those 8 years, (no matter if that was a man or a woman) she couldn't demand that same pay. She was less experienced and less valuable starting off to the company. Now, over time as she got her feet wet again, I believe she deserved raises to get back to that point.

 

I do find it disingenuous though to criticize Romney for his female employees making less but then poo pooing it when it is pointed out that Obama's office very well may be in the same situation.

 

Also, I also find it dangerous to take a small sampling like Romney or Obama's offices and just flat out make a claim based on simple statistics. The smaller the sampling, there are lots of issues that can tweak those statistics one way or the other. For instance, when I worked in health care, I was at Bryan Memorial Hospital in the ICU/CCU unit. I had no where close to the education that the women had that worked there. I wasn't in the same position and I didn't have the responsibility they did. So, is it fair to simply look at our pay and claim there was sexism against me because I wasn't making as much as they were?

 

So, to summarize, it is a very hot topic with me but it is also a very complicated topic that I don't think can just be looked at by simple statistics.

[carlfense]

I do find it disingenuous though to criticize Romney for his female employees making less but then poo pooing it when it is pointed out that Obama's office very well may be in the same situation.

Did I engage in poo pooing? I don't remember it . . .

[knapplc]

Are we going to somehow make the argument that women are paid the same as men for the same work? Because this is not true far too often. We have the Equal Pay Act for a reason. Lilly Ledbetter exists for a reason.

 

It's far better today than it was, but it's still not a non-issue. Broad statistics like those in the article do not mean that individual cases don't occur; they do, far too often. The murder rate has gone down over the years, but that doesn't mean murder isn't still a problem.

 

 

A great example of a law that is nearly obsolete is the discriminatory basis of Marital Status. Back in the 1960s when Title VII was enacted this was a big issue. Then the 70s and 80s happened and most people frankly don't care if you're married or single. We'd be far better served replacing Marital Status with sexual orientation in the lawbooks, but if we wait much longer, that basis will become obsolete as well.

 

The times, they are a-changin' and we're progressing as a society.

[BigRedBuster]

If you are talking to me, where did I say that women received equal pay now?

[knapplc]

If you are talking to me, where did I say that women received equal pay now?

 

If that was at me, no, my post was not at you. It was just a general observation.

[Junior]

There is no indication from this article that a woman in an equal position as a male is earning less in the Obama White House, which is what the Lily Ledbetter Act is about. Only that, on average, women are making less than men. Which if 3 men make $100,000 being in a more senior position than 2 women making $70,000 a year... well that will certainly skew the data, wouldn't it?

 

If you can show a man and a woman in the same position not making equal pay, then you have an argument to make.

[knapplc]

Junior, to whom are you making that point?