Tonight's debate

[T_O_Bull]

I can't listen to this any more. I'm being told that I should care about people dying in the middle east. Let them die. I care about my family, my neighbors and all of you guys. As far as the middle east goes the people who inhabit that reagion are IMO the stupidist people on the face of the planet and deserve to die if they step in the way of a bullet. They would rather hate and kill each other than step forward into a better world. They have incredible resources and yet they let corrupt a$$hole$ govern them. Rise up and fight your real enemy. There is not only an incredible wealth of oil (that will one day will simply dry up) but there are thousands of miles of beach front property that sits on the Mederteranian Sea. Do these stupid SOB;s really want to continue living in sh#t rather than using all this coast line to build resorts, golf coarses and spas that will create jobs, and a never ending source of wealth, move their populations into the real world and give them a chance to have indoor plumbing and refridgerators. They are obviously more interested in getting down on their knees and praying to ahala and hating the rest of the world than they are in providing for their families. What a huge bucket of dung this is. These people need to wake up and the USA needs to realize that these people aren't worth worrying about if they kill each other good riddence. I know this all sounds harsh but we need leadersw with steel for back bones ans cndidates who care more about taking care of this country than getting elected.

T_O_B

[hskerprid]

Ya but if we don't stop Iran and others getting nukes they will end up in Al qaedas (sp) hands. They will find their way to our shores then what?

You could just nuke the 3 million that are there for their pilgrimage to the black obelisk, whatever it's called. But where's that gonna put ya?

[tschu]

Well, T O Bull, unfortunately being president means dealing with a lot more than only the issues that you personally feel are important.

[strigori]

As much as I like the idea of nice, peaceful glass parking lots...

 

The thing is T O, that if we don't work to ensure peace, sooner or later we will get drug into a war we don't want. Well, there are a number of companies that really want war, but I'm talking people.

 

The best way to change and influence the region is by having contact and essentially demonstrating to the people in the region what they could have, instead of what they do have.

 

There are two interlocking primary reasons why the Middle East is like it is.

1 - A lack of education. The literacy rates over there tend to be under 50% of the population. Ignorant, stupid people are easier to control. Leading to point 2

2 - Religion. It is the over riding factor in the region. Similar to the Catholic Church in medieval Europe. To keep power, keep the people poor, stupid and in their place. It does not hurt to find a heathen scapegoat for all your problems either, enter the US. "Yeah, you all are poor, living in a mud hut cap hole, while I live in a palace with gold everywhere paid for by oil, but its the Infidel Americans that are to blame!"

[BigRedBuster]

This is one of the main reasons why we must become energy independent. At one time, I remember it being said that we only get about 10% of our oil from this region. Why don't we fight like hell to do what ever it takes to replace that 10%? Why can't we drill in areas like ANWAR to accomplish that?

[knapplc]

We need to get off oil anyway. I agree wholeheartedly about energy independence, and I've never liked the fact that Earth dumps trillions of dollars into a very unstable region of the world, just to perpetuate its addiction to oil. Electricity can be generated here, the cash stays here, the terrorist-sponsoring nations don't get our money, and it's better for the environment. Wins all around.

 

 

 

 

I'm guessing on this, but I think part of the reason we don't drill in our own backyard much is that we're saving the oil for when we really need it. What if there's another world war and we can't safely ship oil to the States from the Middle East? I think it's more of a war strategy than an economic strategy. We're discovering new oil reserves all the time in America, but they don't get a lot of press and we're not drilling in them, and I think it's for that very reason.

[BigRedBuster]

I have had the same thoughts as you in your second paragraph. That is the only logical explanation I have because all reasoning that has been given to us up till this point by people in power makes no sense.

 

I have always been a proponent of developing absolutely every possible type of power we can. As you pointed out, I believe this is a national security issue. When we are this dependent on other countries, especially the ones in this region, we are not safe. We are extremely vulnerable.

 

I have actually looked into this for myself. I live on an acreage with a building with a perfect roof facing south for solar panels. I could be completely off the grid. The problem is that when I got a quote for it, it was something like $180,000. Not feasible.

 

I believe that all forms of power have their place. One that I believe needs to be developed is tidal power. Wind has it's place but I got a really bad taste in my mouth over that when those things are going up all around me be the Ted Kennedys of the world wouldn't allow them off the coast of their beach side homes. They want us to destroy our view for this cause but God Forbid they would have to look at them.

[Comish]

We need to get off oil anyway. I agree wholeheartedly about energy independence, and I've never liked the fact that Earth dumps trillions of dollars into a very unstable region of the world, just to perpetuate its addiction to oil. Electricity can be generated here, the cash stays here, the terrorist-sponsoring nations don't get our money, and it's better for the environment. Wins all around.

 

 

 

 

I'm guessing on this, but I think part of the reason we don't drill in our own backyard much is that we're saving the oil for when we really need it. What if there's another world war and we can't safely ship oil to the States from the Middle East? I think it's more of a war strategy than an economic strategy. We're discovering new oil reserves all the time in America, but they don't get a lot of press and we're not drilling in them, and I think it's for that very reason.

Isn't that theoretically what the "strategic reserves" are for.......?

[knapplc]

We need to get off oil anyway. I agree wholeheartedly about energy independence, and I've never liked the fact that Earth dumps trillions of dollars into a very unstable region of the world, just to perpetuate its addiction to oil. Electricity can be generated here, the cash stays here, the terrorist-sponsoring nations don't get our money, and it's better for the environment. Wins all around.

 

 

 

 

I'm guessing on this, but I think part of the reason we don't drill in our own backyard much is that we're saving the oil for when we really need it. What if there's another world war and we can't safely ship oil to the States from the Middle East? I think it's more of a war strategy than an economic strategy. We're discovering new oil reserves all the time in America, but they don't get a lot of press and we're not drilling in them, and I think it's for that very reason.

Isn't that theoretically what the "strategic reserves" are for.......?

 

That is what the strategic reserve is for, but it's not what the strategic reserve is. The actual factual Strategic Reserve is a storehouse of oil in artificially-created caverns. We dug out the caverns and put the oil in.

 

What I'm talking about are oil deposits in situ which we're not exploiting for use at a future date, whether that be to corner the market on oil, for use in war time, or whatever.

[strigori]

We need to get off oil anyway. I agree wholeheartedly about energy independence, and I've never liked the fact that Earth dumps trillions of dollars into a very unstable region of the world, just to perpetuate its addiction to oil. Electricity can be generated here, the cash stays here, the terrorist-sponsoring nations don't get our money, and it's better for the environment. Wins all around.

 

 

 

 

I'm guessing on this, but I think part of the reason we don't drill in our own backyard much is that we're saving the oil for when we really need it. What if there's another world war and we can't safely ship oil to the States from the Middle East? I think it's more of a war strategy than an economic strategy. We're discovering new oil reserves all the time in America, but they don't get a lot of press and we're not drilling in them, and I think it's for that very reason.

The biggest hurdle is fighting the big money in these old energy industries. If you look at some of the biggest donors its big oil and coal, pumping lots of money into the Republican sides of things, in efforts to create a less conducive environment to get the new/clean energies up off the ground. Like BRB mentioned with the $180,000 price tag, its so expensive because it is not mas produced enough to bring the costs down. If everyone in say California had solar panels on their roofs, with all the sun they get there the whole electric industry would go bankrupt. And the enormous amounts of money those companies will spend to try to keep that from happening.

 

I don't think there is much credence to the saving the drilling just in case. Its simply cheaper to drill where they are drilling, Be it from softer earth, less depth needed, or what have you.

[JJ Husker]

Or maybe is simply that these new technologies are just not economically feasible yet. Witness the massive amounts of stimulus funds dumped into many of these solar companies. If those millions and billions of dollars can't help some individual small companies over the hump, I'm afraid that the industry is just not ready to take off and flourish. I'm sure there is some resistance from the old guard energy suppliers but I have seen indications that many of them are also embracing the new technology. Here in Colorado you can get some pretty favorable credits for going solar and Public Service Co. will give you the going rate for any extra kilowatts you generate and put back into their grid. That isn't making it less conducive. The fact is the technology is just not quite there yet. I have seen large arrays of solar panels being installed in many projects. It appears there is enough volume in the manufacture of solar panels to achieve mfg efficiencies. It is quite simply just too expensive to produce them and compete against existing technologies. At least that is my take on it.

[strigori]

Or maybe is simply that these new technologies are just not economically feasible yet. Witness the massive amounts of stimulus funds dumped into many of these solar companies. If those millions and billions of dollars can't help some individual small companies over the hump, I'm afraid that the industry is just not ready to take off and flourish. I'm sure there is some resistance from the old guard energy suppliers but I have seen indications that many of them are also embracing the new technology. Here in Colorado you can get some pretty favorable credits for going solar and Public Service Co. will give you the going rate for any extra kilowatts you generate and put back into their grid. That isn't making it less conducive. The fact is the technology is just not quite there yet. I have seen large arrays of solar panels being installed in many projects. It appears there is enough volume in the manufacture of solar panels to achieve mfg efficiencies. It is quite simply just too expensive to produce them and compete against existing technologies. At least that is my take on it.

Is Colorado public utilities like we have in NE? Or the completely deregulated catastrophe that Cali has?

[knapplc]

If the technology isn't "there yet," then it behooves us, it is forward-thinking of us, to be at the forefront of developing that technology. Henry Ford's assembly line invention set the stage for American production dominance for the majority of the last century. It was difficult and expensive to develop factories like nobody had ever seen before, yet Ford did it - and we won two world wars based on Ford's concept of mass production.

 

Allowing other countries to develop alternative energies is a terribly backward-thinking mentality.

[BigRedBuster]

We need to get off oil anyway. I agree wholeheartedly about energy independence, and I've never liked the fact that Earth dumps trillions of dollars into a very unstable region of the world, just to perpetuate its addiction to oil. Electricity can be generated here, the cash stays here, the terrorist-sponsoring nations don't get our money, and it's better for the environment. Wins all around.

 

 

 

 

I'm guessing on this, but I think part of the reason we don't drill in our own backyard much is that we're saving the oil for when we really need it. What if there's another world war and we can't safely ship oil to the States from the Middle East? I think it's more of a war strategy than an economic strategy. We're discovering new oil reserves all the time in America, but they don't get a lot of press and we're not drilling in them, and I think it's for that very reason.

The biggest hurdle is fighting the big money in these old energy industries. If you look at some of the biggest donors its big oil and coal, pumping lots of money into the Republican sides of things, in efforts to create a less conducive environment to get the new/clean energies up off the ground. Like BRB mentioned with the $180,000 price tag, its so expensive because it is not mas produced enough to bring the costs down. If everyone in say California had solar panels on their roofs, with all the sun they get there the whole electric industry would go bankrupt. And the enormous amounts of money those companies will spend to try to keep that from happening.

 

I don't think there is much credence to the saving the drilling just in case. Its simply cheaper to drill where they are drilling, Be it from softer earth, less depth needed, or what have you.

 

 

That may be true in some places but it's not true in some areas like ANWAR and the outer continental shelf. ANWAR was the biggest joke of an issue. All we heard was about these beautiful green meadows full of caribou that will die if we drill there. It was total BS. ANWAR is a relatively small area that is pretty much marshy unusable land for anything. Technology now could go in and drill there and almost not disturb anything.

 

It was turned into a political issue so that some people could claim they are fighting big oil to save the environment.

[Bradr]

I'm guessing on this, but I think part of the reason we don't drill in our own backyard much is that we're saving the oil for when we really need it. What if there's another world war and we can't safely ship oil to the States from the Middle East? I think it's more of a war strategy than an economic strategy. We're discovering new oil reserves all the time in America, but they don't get a lot of press and we're not drilling in them, and I think it's for that very reason.

 

I'm definitely thinking in a similar way. It's a long term strategy for the country. Even if we do gain dependence on oil, that energy independence is likely to come to only a handful of very technologically advanced countries. Many other countries might still be very dependent on oil for energy production. Particularly larger population centers with lower domestic indexes, such as India and possibly China. I'm guessing the US is banking on this, and wants to hold their resources until the end, to be the last person holding what everyone wants - energy.

 

And if you really want to sleep peacefully at night about the US's ability to provide oil/energy for itself and others, look up shale oil. It is basically oil that has been absorbed into rock. The United States has the largest reserves on earth - by far. As a comparison, Saudi Arabia has around 260 billion barrels of oil in their reserves. The United States has an estimated 200-250 TRILLION barrels worth of shale oil that can be extracted into recoverable oil.

 

Interesting stuff to think about.