Splitting the United States into separate Republics

[knapplc]

White House secession petitions reaches 675,000 signatures, makes front page of Drudge Report: Link

 

675,000 people = .0021% of the population.

 

Frankly, I think there's way more crazy out there than this.

[Mars]

White House secession petitions reaches 675,000 signatures, makes front page of Drudge Report: Link

 

675,000 people = .0021% of the population.

 

Frankly, I think there's way more crazy out there than this.

It's not a large number by any means. But that number could grow over the coming years. And once an idea is adopted by 10 percent of the population, it spreads like wildfire and becomes the opinion of the majority. The tipping point is a fascinating sociological model: Link

 

“When the number of committed opinion holders is below 10 percent, there is no visible progress in the spread of ideas. It would literally take the amount of time comparable to the age of the universe for this size group to reach the majority,” said SCNARC Director Boleslaw Szymanski, the Claire and Roland Schmitt Distinguished Professor at Rensselaer. “Once that number grows above 10 percent, the idea spreads like flame.”

[knapplc]

That number could (and almost certainly will) shrink over the coming years, too. Secession, like the venerable old, "If ______ is elected, I'm moving to Canada!" is a kneejerk reaction. It's thoroughly impractical and it will not get over this magic 10% threshold the link you provided suggests.

 

Funny story, though - that 10% threshold isn't set in stone, not by any means. It's the old acid/base situation - if there's an opposite idea, the "spreads like flame" idea meets resistance and the spread slows. It's not inevitable that an idea, like secession, will take hold.

[EbylHusker]

Butthurt people like to do some saber rattling. Nobody gives a sh#t.

[Mars]

That number could (and almost certainly will) shrink over the coming years, too.

What makes you so sure?

 

Funny story, though - that 10% threshold isn't set in stone, not by any means. It's the old acid/base situation - if there's an opposite idea, the "spreads like flame" idea meets resistance and the spread slows. It's not inevitable that an idea, like secession, will take hold.

Reading over my post above, I make it sound as if the "tipping point" is a model set it stone. That wasn't my intention. My point, in bring up the tipping point, is that an idea doesn't need a massive following to take hold, only a few "true believers" with unwavering belief in their idea, sprinkled in among the population.

[Mars]

Butthurt people like to do some saber rattling. Nobody gives a sh#t.

I do.

 

The United States was founded by men who chose secede from the world's most powerful nation. Another secession tore the country in two and cost thousands of American lives. Secession is a part of politics, a part of history, it involves psychology and sociology and human behavior, all subjects that fascinate me endlessly.

 

Apparently you are above such things, and see no need to learn about them or even discuss them.

[Fuzzy]

I have to agree with Knapplc on this. Over the next few years those numbers will shrink (if succession doesn't happen before then). With 700,00 digital signatures, it is a bit of a reality check. I suspect the majority of them are Republicans, just making point. Or maybe the media is downplaying the desperation these people have, i don't know.

 

What i do know, this process won't survive several years, people are too impatient. There will be rioting and looting before the federal government allows a state to secede.

 

The problem with changing and ratifying the constitution is that not all states are on the same page when it comes to the important issues. I hate to say it, but the majority of this country's people don't pay much attention to local and state politics as much as they do national and foreign politics.

 

I'm a firm believer in that local and state government makes a much bigger impact on your life than the federal government does, at least that is the way it should be.

[EbylHusker]

What's fascinating you endlessly is a bunch of butthurt people going, "RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE." These people are idiots and are just looking to make a scene. They have no real interest in secession or what it would actually mean, and actually have no real interest in working to improve the country. They just want to "fascinate" a few people who are willing to give them the time of day.

[knapplc]

That number could (and almost certainly will) shrink over the coming years, too.

What makes you so sure?

 

Because I have seen "If ________ is elected, I'm moving to Canada/Australia" and secession talk subsequent to each election since I've been playing attention to politics. For me, anecdotally, it started with Reagan/Mondale, then it happened again, like clockwork, with Bush I/Dukakis, Bush I/Clinton, Clinton/Dole, Bush II/Gore, Bush II/Kerry, Obama/McCain and now Obama/Romney.

 

If this were the first time I'd heard secession talk after an election, maybe I'd take more notice. If it were the second time, maybe. But it's not. Not even close.

[TGHusker]

If all of this can somehow get rid of my student loan debt, I'm in.

 

If not, this is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Just reduce the power of the Federal Government and send the power back to the states like it was meant to be in the first place, and boom! everybody's happy again (for the most part).

 

Agree. Most of the discontent is based on the power of the fed gov't, wasteful spending, and the feeling that the 'our voices' aren't being heard in DC. The best gov't is the local govt where people have greater access and can more easily voice their concerns. A one size fits all approach that a large fed govt has to take, ends up being a one size disappoints most. States can be better at crafting programs that fit their local populations. The Constitution, if followed properly (balance federal and state rights and responsibilities) is a thing of beauty and was drafted by some pretty wise men.

[HuskerShark]

If all of this can somehow get rid of my student loan debt, I'm in.

 

If not, this is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Just reduce the power of the Federal Government and send the power back to the states like it was meant to be in the first place, and boom! everybody's happy again (for the most part).

I didn't realize that we could reduce the size of the federal government just by snapping our fingers. It was so easy!

 

How stupid of me not to think of such an easy, entirely uncomplicated solution!

 

Thank you for the sarcastic reply. Much appreciated.

 

I know that it would not be an easy task to reduce the amount of "big government" that is going on, but quite simply, it needs to be done. And it starts with the people that we elect to the Presidency/Senate/House. They are the ones in the end that have to collectively decide to make this change, and we are getting nowhere with the types of people that America votes in.

I proposed an idea to fix the problem, and your response was to call it the "stupidest thing you've ever heard". You added nothing to the discussion with your first response. Much appreciated.

 

I agree with you that if the problems are to be corrected, we need to start with our elected representatives. But after this last election, nothing has changed. The White House is the same, the Senate is the same, and Congess is the same. People understand that a change has to be made, but they keep electing the same people to office. Barring some kind of catastrophic event, I don't see any kind of change happening.

 

Well don't blame me, because I voted Libertarian.

 

And also, I wasn't bashing an idea of yours as far as I know. I meant that the idea of states withdrawing from the US and trying to become their own nation is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. This whole petition thing is a bit ridiculous if you ask me. People have no idea what that would actually entail.

[TGHusker]

A few years back some Russian eco/polictical guy predicted that the USA would split into 7 regions. Does anyone remember or know anything about it? I just remember it coming up on a radio interview some years ago. Regardsless, we have seen the 'balkenization' of the USA. No longer are we the great melting pot where everyone's cultural and nation of origin values get mixed into the pot and come out American. Now we have the hyphen-American on everything. Groups of people fight for their 'rights' based on their ethinic, race, gender, sexual orientation, cultural identity. Obama did a good job during the last 4 years dividing us along the economic lines. So we have balkenized by every conceivable idenity. When we no longer share a common culture, creed, vision, and ideals we cease being a united nation in a practical sense. This makes it much more difficult to govern effectively. We know longer govern by what is good for all of Americans as a whole but end up catering to special interests, groups etc. Both parties have their special interest groups - both parties have been involved in this balkenization process - as they craft laws based on their one special interests.

[zoogs]

I balk at those sentiments. In what era (year range) were we a united nation by your criteria?

[lo country]

A few years back some Russian eco/polictical guy predicted that the USA would split into 7 regions. Does anyone remember or know anything about it? I just remember it coming up on a radio interview some years ago. Regardsless, we have seen the 'balkenization' of the USA. No longer are we the great melting pot where everyone's cultural and nation of origin values get mixed into the pot and come out American. Now we have the hyphen-American on everything. Groups of people fight for their 'rights' based on their ethinic, race, gender, sexual orientation, cultural identity. Obama did a good job during the last 4 years dividing us along the economic lines. So we have balkenized by every conceivable idenity. When we no longer share a common culture, creed, vision, and ideals we cease being a united nation in a practical sense. This makes it much more difficult to govern effectively. We know longer govern by what is good for all of Americans as a whole but end up catering to special interests, groups etc. Both parties have their special interest groups - both parties have been involved in this balkenization process - as they craft laws based on their one special interests.

 

Check post #10 on page one. Unsure if this is the one that you were thinking of.

[TGHusker]

A few years back some Russian eco/polictical guy predicted that the USA would split into 7 regions. Does anyone remember or know anything about it? I just remember it coming up on a radio interview some years ago. Regardsless, we have seen the 'balkenization' of the USA. No longer are we the great melting pot where everyone's cultural and nation of origin values get mixed into the pot and come out American. Now we have the hyphen-American on everything. Groups of people fight for their 'rights' based on their ethinic, race, gender, sexual orientation, cultural identity. Obama did a good job during the last 4 years dividing us along the economic lines. So we have balkenized by every conceivable idenity. When we no longer share a common culture, creed, vision, and ideals we cease being a united nation in a practical sense. This makes it much more difficult to govern effectively. We know longer govern by what is good for all of Americans as a whole but end up catering to special interests, groups etc. Both parties have their special interest groups - both parties have been involved in this balkenization process - as they craft laws based on their one special interests.

 

Check post #10 on page one. Unsure if this is the one that you were thinking of.

Yes, that is the one

thanks