Hey i know how Jesus was able to walk on water

[husker_99]

The point of this thread that Jesus was probably a master illusionist aka magician.

Oh, I have a pretty good feeling that your intent was to mock both Christianity and Christians. I doubt that you were inspired to use that particular youtube video to best espouse your deepest thoughts and feelings on the subject.

 

But I'll give you this...it looks like you left room to doubt your doubts.

Even if Jesus was just a magician does it really change what he preached?

If he was just a magician, we would have no idea what he preached. What does David Copperfield say about how we should live our lives? What does the son of God say about it? See the difference? One is ignored and never considered, the other spreads like wildfire into all corners of the earth.

you do know that it is possible to be 2 things at once right? He could intertwine magic with preaching. How do you think the poor would have saw it? That he was a magical person cause he could amaze them.

[husker_99]

The point of this thread that Jesus was probably a master illusionist aka magician.

Oh, I have a pretty good feeling that your intent was to mock both Christianity and Christians. I doubt that you were inspired to use that particular youtube video to best espouse your deepest thoughts and feelings on the subject.

 

But I'll give you this...it looks like you left room to doubt your doubts.

Even if Jesus was just a magician does it really change what he preached?

 

 

It changes absolutely everything.

no it doesn't. Just because someone or a group of people write something doesn't mean it is true. People have been writing about things that aren't true since writing was invented, just how they explain it.

[JJ Husker]

Well, Jesus was two things at once, sone of man and son of God. And yes, a person could be magician and a preacher bit I'm not sure what that has to do with this discussion. If you think Jesus was just a magician who preached, then you need to answer my previous question; why/how is he such a big deal more than2000 years after his last magic trick and bit of preaching? I am aware of lots of magicians and lots of preachers who have done their thing much more recently and they sure aren't much of a topic of discussion or contention. What in your mind makes this Jesus fellow such an enigma that nobody else has even come close to the attention he still garners, this many years after taking the dirt nap? In the realm of magic tricks and illusions, what he did was not really that spectacular. But if what he did were genuine miracles, well that would explain a bunch. Harry Houdini had quite a bit written about him but it is virtually nothing compared to Christianity.

[ShawnWatson]

This thread sucks.

[Landlord]

Well, Jesus was two things at once, sone of man and son of God. And yes, a person could be magician and a preacher bit I'm not sure what that has to do with this discussion. If you think Jesus was just a magician who preached, then you need to answer my previous question; why/how is he such a big deal more than2000 years after his last magic trick and bit of preaching? I am aware of lots of magicians and lots of preachers who have done their thing much more recently and they sure aren't much of a topic of discussion or contention. What in your mind makes this Jesus fellow such an enigma that nobody else has even come close to the attention he still garners, this many years after taking the dirt nap? In the realm of magic tricks and illusions, what he did was not really that spectacular. But if what he did were genuine miracles, well that would explain a bunch. Harry Houdini had quite a bit written about him but it is virtually nothing compared to Christianity.

 

 

I'm guessing the response will be about Constantine, ignoring the rapidfire weed that was Christianity that kept growing and growing and growing despite extreme persecution before Constantine's conversion.

[husker_99]

Well, Jesus was two things at once, sone of man and son of God. And yes, a person could be magician and a preacher bit I'm not sure what that has to do with this discussion. If you think Jesus was just a magician who preached, then you need to answer my previous question; why/how is he such a big deal more than2000 years after his last magic trick and bit of preaching? I am aware of lots of magicians and lots of preachers who have done their thing much more recently and they sure aren't much of a topic of discussion or contention. What in your mind makes this Jesus fellow such an enigma that nobody else has even come close to the attention he still garners, this many years after taking the dirt nap? In the realm of magic tricks and illusions, what he did was not really that spectacular. But if what he did were genuine miracles, well that would explain a bunch. Harry Houdini had quite a bit written about him but it is virtually nothing compared to Christianity.

Actually Christianity is declining specially in the countries where they have the highest levels of education but Christianity does grow in areas where education is not achievable by most like countries in Asia. Ask yourself this why did Jesus preach to the poor mainly? When you are down on your luck and living below poverty you will believe in anything as long as it makes your life better. It's not just Christianity it's also other religions where people are just not becoming religious anymore because of the emergence of science. Christianity mainly grew by the sword not because of free will. What was once considered to be demons like diseases can now be explained by science. Science doesn't have all the answers but as far as health is concerned we know it's not caused by a demon or a demon caused you to cheat on your wife. There wasn't much written on Jesus as a man so that does leave the door open to question his existence and miraculous claims.

[JJ Husker]

That's two times you've avoided answering that question. If your reasoning leads you to think he was merely a magician/preacher and relied on parlor tricks to fool people, then you really should think about my question. I don't even want to know your answer now but you owe it to yourself to figure out how some mere magician came to be such a big deal. Stating that Christianity is declining or that his preaching is aimed at the poor doesn't begin to cover how Christianity exploded or what it is today.

 

If, however, you want to claim that the miracles/magic tricks are fabrications and didn't occur at all, well then we'll just have to agree to disagree. But, it would probably be best for you to pick one story or the other; either he was doing magic tricks and become inexplicably popular or he didn't do any magic tricks at all. It surely isn't a combination of both. If you are trying to figure out this deal using your intellect, at least apply that intellect consistently.

[husker_99]

Christianity grew by the sword, they killed pagans who didn't convert. After Constantine, Roman Emporers began outlawing paganism and literally making Christianity the state religion just like it is today in most Arab countries with Islam. Then whever the Roman Empire conquered they converted. Parents force kids to attend church whether they like it or not which in turn gives them a big hand in retaining a large membership. If you really believe most christians are christians just because of the word then you have another thing coming.

[husker_99]

Well, Jesus was two things at once, sone of man and son of God. And yes, a person could be magician and a preacher bit I'm not sure what that has to do with this discussion. If you think Jesus was just a magician who preached, then you need to answer my previous question; why/how is he such a big deal more than2000 years after his last magic trick and bit of preaching? I am aware of lots of magicians and lots of preachers who have done their thing much more recently and they sure aren't much of a topic of discussion or contention. What in your mind makes this Jesus fellow such an enigma that nobody else has even come close to the attention he still garners, this many years after taking the dirt nap? In the realm of magic tricks and illusions, what he did was not really that spectacular. But if what he did were genuine miracles, well that would explain a bunch. Harry Houdini had quite a bit written about him but it is virtually nothing compared to Christianity.

 

 

I'm guessing the response will be about Constantine, ignoring the rapidfire weed that was Christianity that kept growing and growing and growing despite extreme persecution before Constantine's conversion.

Among the poor it grew but not until anybody with any real power came along.

[Landlord]

Well, Jesus was two things at once, sone of man and son of God. And yes, a person could be magician and a preacher bit I'm not sure what that has to do with this discussion. If you think Jesus was just a magician who preached, then you need to answer my previous question; why/how is he such a big deal more than2000 years after his last magic trick and bit of preaching? I am aware of lots of magicians and lots of preachers who have done their thing much more recently and they sure aren't much of a topic of discussion or contention. What in your mind makes this Jesus fellow such an enigma that nobody else has even come close to the attention he still garners, this many years after taking the dirt nap? In the realm of magic tricks and illusions, what he did was not really that spectacular. But if what he did were genuine miracles, well that would explain a bunch. Harry Houdini had quite a bit written about him but it is virtually nothing compared to Christianity.

 

 

I'm guessing the response will be about Constantine, ignoring the rapidfire weed that was Christianity that kept growing and growing and growing despite extreme persecution before Constantine's conversion.

Among the poor it grew but not until anybody with any real power came along.

 

 

I'll point you to Paul, Luke, the Ethiopian Eunuch and Matthew as counterpoints against that claim.

[husker_99]

Well, Jesus was two things at once, sone of man and son of God. And yes, a person could be magician and a preacher bit I'm not sure what that has to do with this discussion. If you think Jesus was just a magician who preached, then you need to answer my previous question; why/how is he such a big deal more than2000 years after his last magic trick and bit of preaching? I am aware of lots of magicians and lots of preachers who have done their thing much more recently and they sure aren't much of a topic of discussion or contention. What in your mind makes this Jesus fellow such an enigma that nobody else has even come close to the attention he still garners, this many years after taking the dirt nap? In the realm of magic tricks and illusions, what he did was not really that spectacular. But if what he did were genuine miracles, well that would explain a bunch. Harry Houdini had quite a bit written about him but it is virtually nothing compared to Christianity.

 

 

I'm guessing the response will be about Constantine, ignoring the rapidfire weed that was Christianity that kept growing and growing and growing despite extreme persecution before Constantine's conversion.

Among the poor it grew but not until anybody with any real power came along.

 

 

I'll point you to Paul, Luke, the Ethiopian Eunuch and Matthew as counterpoints against that claim.

 

So you saying those 4 were the equivalent status of an Emporer?

[Landlord]

Well, Jesus was two things at once, sone of man and son of God. And yes, a person could be magician and a preacher bit I'm not sure what that has to do with this discussion. If you think Jesus was just a magician who preached, then you need to answer my previous question; why/how is he such a big deal more than2000 years after his last magic trick and bit of preaching? I am aware of lots of magicians and lots of preachers who have done their thing much more recently and they sure aren't much of a topic of discussion or contention. What in your mind makes this Jesus fellow such an enigma that nobody else has even come close to the attention he still garners, this many years after taking the dirt nap? In the realm of magic tricks and illusions, what he did was not really that spectacular. But if what he did were genuine miracles, well that would explain a bunch. Harry Houdini had quite a bit written about him but it is virtually nothing compared to Christianity.

 

 

I'm guessing the response will be about Constantine, ignoring the rapidfire weed that was Christianity that kept growing and growing and growing despite extreme persecution before Constantine's conversion.

Among the poor it grew but not until anybody with any real power came along.

 

 

I'll point you to Paul, Luke, the Ethiopian Eunuch and Matthew as counterpoints against that claim.

 

So you saying those 4 were the equivalent status of an Emporer?

 

 

Wait, is there no middle ground between the poor and the emperor?

[husker_99]

 

 

Wait, is there no middle ground between the poor and the emperor?

 

talking about influence.

[Hedley Lamarr]

The 4 people mentioned are really only recognized in the bible aren't they? Pulling things from the bible and stating them as facts and history is a dangerous game.

[Landlord]

 

 

Wait, is there no middle ground between the poor and the emperor?

 

talking about influence.

 

 

You're the one that stated that Christianity only spread among the poor, and not among anyone notable. I corrected and refuted this point with a few examples of very notable people. If the Emperor is your standard, of course your argument is right because everyone is below the Emperor. So which is it, nobody notable adopted Christianity (which is false), or nobody as influential as the emperor did, which is correct but a stupid statement.

 

 

 

 

The 4 people mentioned are really only recognized in the bible aren't they? Pulling things from the bible and stating them as facts and history is a dangerous game.

 

Not exclusively, no. But the interesting thing about a lack of extra-biblical testimonies that corroborate what the Bible claims is that most everyone that started out not believing eventually converted, and thus became a Biblical testimony. All four names I mentioned, as just a small sample and example, started out as non-believers.