Mea Maxima Culpa

[knapplc]

I think condemning all Catholics because the Catholic church's hierarchy is corrupt is a bit much.

Did someone do this?

I am condemning all Catholics and this isn't something that knapplc typed in this quote to win an internet point.

 

[carlfense]

I think condemning all Catholics because the Catholic church's hierarchy is corrupt is a bit much.

Did someone do this?

I am condemning all Catholics and this isn't something that knapplc typed in this quote to win an internet point.

 

[knapplc]

OK, fine. Not as funny as I'd planned. You win this time, carlfense.

[C N Red]

Is anybody else tired of trying to explain to carlfense or sd'sker why some of us are catholic and believe in the religion, the fundamentals, and that the actions of few do not condemn the rest of us. They will deny it, but there is some sort of vendetta with them or they wouldn't continually try to sway us from the religion. Isn't it ironic that as much as they bash catholics for "pushing" their beliefs on people that they continue to try and push their beliefs on us about how bad the church is?

[JJ Husker]

If you are still Catholic....why? Because I agree with and share a majority of their faith and belief positions. Don't confuse those specific issues of why many people are still Catholic with some of the things human beings or those in positions of power have done under the guise of being Catholic clergy.

It wasn't done under the guise of clergy . . . they were clergy and in many cases still were clergy long after the church knew of their behavior.

 

How is this excused? Why in the world would you think these types things are "excused" by those who continue to be Catholic? I sure don't excuse them and I do not know any Catholics who excuse them. I don't think anyone should equate still being Catholic with excusing sexual abuse or coverups.

I think I'd classify the Pope as a Catholic . . .

 

Do I need to find a case of an atheist sexually abusing children and then ask you why you excuse that behavior?

Sure . . . as soon as you identify what atheist hierarchal structure I financially support that condones, conceals, and enables child rape.

 

I will admit the church has had way more than their fair share and has handled these cases very poorly but I do believe there is an attempt to rectify the problems. I simply fail to see how that should change what I believe.

It shouldn't change what you believe at all unless you believe that the Pope is holy . . . in fact I think that you could keep almost all beliefs intact without supporting the evil (my words) within the upper levels of the church. Have any splinter groups formed? (Other than Irish Catholics that Rome tried to bring back into the fold . . .)

I apologize, I assumed that maybe you would attempt to explain why you view being Catholic with "excusing" this behavior. My Bad. I will no longer assume that you will stick to the subject at hand instead of deflecting and convoluting the discussion. Carry on.

[JJ Husker]

Is anybody else tired of trying to explain to carlfense or sd'sker why some of us are catholic and believe in the religion, the fundamentals, and that the actions of few do not condemn the rest of us. They will deny it, but there is some sort of vendetta with them or they wouldn't continually try to sway us from the religion. Isn't it ironic that as much as they bash catholics for "pushing" their beliefs on people that they continue to try and push their beliefs on us about how bad the church is?

Where is the emoticon, with the eager student raising his hand high in the air, when you need it?

[carlfense]

Isn't it ironic that as much as they bash catholics for "pushing" their beliefs on people that they continue to try and push their beliefs on us about how bad the church is?

I don't think that I've ever done this.

 

If that's the straw that you need for your strawman . . . so be it . . . but I don't think that I've ever bashed Catholics for pushing their beliefs on people.

 

 

 

 

 

Now . . . bashing the Catholic Church (capital letters) for aiding and abetting/condoning/excusing/hiding the rape of children? You bet that I'll bash them for that. That'd be true regardless of the institution. Feel free to dig up the Penn State thread that I started if you have doubts.

[JJ Husker]

This place probably needs another religion themed forum. Of course the primary one would be titled "Come on in and bash the Catholic religion". It wouldn't matter what you called the other one because nobody would post anything in it anyway.

[Junior]

I apologize, I assumed that maybe you would attempt to explain why you view being Catholic with "excusing" this behavior. My Bad. I will no longer assume that you will stick to the subject at hand instead of deflecting and convoluting the discussion. Carry on.

 

Not to speak for Carl, but I guess from my standpoint, anyone who continues to donate money to an organization who's response to a massive child rape and molestation is to pretend it didn't happen is excusing the behavior. If I were a Catholic, I would not donate any more of my money to the church until they got rid of the Pope who swept things under the rug. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/24/pope-sexual-abuse-lawrence-murphy_n_512483.html

[carlfense]

I apologize, I assumed that maybe you would attempt to explain why you view being Catholic with "excusing" this behavior. My Bad. I will no longer assume that you will stick to the subject at hand instead of deflecting and convoluting the discussion. Carry on.

If someone regularly attends Mass and gives to the Church without taking any sort of action to ensure that the Church purges this evil and refrains from this sort of behavior in the future they excuse this behavior.

 

Now that other stuff that you'd argued? I'm sure that can't be categorized as "deflecting and convoluting the discussion," right? I mean . . . that would excuse you from having to respond . . . and we might never know if the Pope is Catholic.

[carlfense]

I apologize, I assumed that maybe you would attempt to explain why you view being Catholic with "excusing" this behavior. My Bad. I will no longer assume that you will stick to the subject at hand instead of deflecting and convoluting the discussion. Carry on.

 

Not to speak for Carl, but I guess from my standpoint, anyone who continues to donate money to an organization who's response to a massive child rape and molestation is to pretend it didn't happen is excusing the behavior. If I were a Catholic, I would not donate any more of my money to the church until they got rid of the Pope who swept things under the rug. http://www.huffingto...y_n_512483.html

That'd be one way to put it.

 

That . . . or you could continue to financially support an enabler of child rape and say that you share faith and beliefs.

[carlfense]

This place probably needs another religion themed forum. Of course the primary one would be titled "Come on in and bash the Catholic religion". It wouldn't matter what you called the other one because nobody would post anything in it anyway.

Not the religion . . . unless you say that rape was part of the religion. Odd thing to fail to differentiate . . .

[zoogs]

OK, fine. Not as funny as I'd planned. You win this time, carlfense.

 

I laughed

 

I like the Nebraska fan analogy. And I'm with NUance. Even if scandal-ridden, it's an organization that at least strives to do good. It deserves the criticism it gets largely, but there's another side to it too.

[C N Red]

Debuted on HBO last night. Absolutely chilling.

 

If you are still Catholic . . . why? The evidence is overwhelming. How is this excused?

 

https://www.hbo.com/...ulpa/index.html

Isn't it ironic that as much as they bash catholics for "pushing" their beliefs on people that they continue to try and push their beliefs on us about how bad the church is?

I don't think that I've ever done this.

 

If that's the straw that you need for your strawman . . . so be it . . . but I don't think that I've ever bashed Catholics for pushing their beliefs on people.

 

 

 

 

 

Now . . . bashing the Catholic Church (capital letters) for aiding and abetting/condoning/excusing/hiding the rape of children? You bet that I'll bash them for that. That'd be true regardless of the institution. Feel free to dig up the Penn State thread that I started if you have doubts.

This is basically saying the Catholic Church itself is bad and that you should not believe in it or the teachings without just frankly saying it. How is this not trying to push beliefs??

 

I'm seriously not here to fight. I hate talking religion in general and really try to stay away from it, but some things I see on this board just rub me the wrong way. People want to put down the church but it's the people who are doing wrong they should put down. Our faith has sinners just like any other faith or non-faith.

 

It's hard to talk with those who don't believe and don't understand why we believe. There is no chance we will see eye to eye. I believe, you don't believe, and that's fine with me. I have friends that don't believe and I don't agree with them, but I don't try to make them believe, we just don't talk about it, we talk about other things.

 

If you want to blame certain people in the church so be it, but the way you guys come across, as in the above bolded sentence, seems to put your ire on all Catholics. Most of us from what I've seen on here do not try and stick up for the people that are actually doing the wrong, we are just sticking up for the religion and it's teachings on it's own. Some catholics, even "leaders" of the church do wrong and are selfish, dishonest, etc. That's wrong and I don't condone it, but it's not b/c the faith teaches that b/c it doesn't.

 

Also, I wouldn't agree if people on a here posted things that put atheists in a bad light on here either. Why try so hard to push each other down, it's beneficial to no one. I've said before, humans run the church, therefore things are going to be done wrong and in selfishness etc, and I don't agree with much of it, but the religion and the teachings I do believe in.

[strigori]

This place probably needs another religion themed forum. Of course the primary one would be titled "Come on in and bash the Catholic religion". It wouldn't matter what you called the other one because nobody would post anything in it anyway.

If the anti-religion people on this forum were members of a club where the leaders either raped kids, or covered it up, but we kept going and contributing money, we would be attacked, and justly so.

 

This is no different. The membership of the Catholic Church keep tithing away. By most people that is at least complacency. The membership knows there are criminals in positions of authority, and do nothing to change it. The membership could effectively change the viewpoints simply by ceasing to attend Mass, and ceasing to tithe. Neither has happened.