So why is it so hard to believe God is.....

[HuskerShark]

No you didn't...

 

I can't save myself because I don't believe in god. If you're going to believe in something, man up, and stick to it...

 

Okay will do. God bless you. Good night.

[walksalone]

No you didn't...

 

I can't save myself because I don't believe in god. If you're going to believe in something, man up, and stick to it...

 

Okay will do. God bless you. Good night.

 

Thanks, but no thanks, I've got this...

[HuskerShark]

Something I ran across that applies directly to this discussion:

 

(Scene: a college lecture hall)

Professor : You are a Christian, aren’t you, son ?

 

Student : Yes, sir.

 

Professor: So, you believe in GOD ?

 

Student : Absolutely, sir.

 

Professor : Is GOD good ?

 

Student : Sure.

 

Professor: Is GOD all powerful ?

 

Student : Yes.

 

Professor: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to GOD to heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But GOD didn’t. How is this GOD good then? Hmm?

 

(Student was silent.)

 

Professor: You can’t answer, can you ? Let’s start again, young fella. Is GOD good?

 

Student : Yes.

 

Professor: Is satan good ?

 

Student : No.

 

Professor: Where does satan come from ?

 

Student : From … GOD …

 

Professor: That’s right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world?

 

Student : Yes.

 

Professor: Evil is everywhere, isn’t it ? And GOD did make everything. Correct?

 

Student : Yes.

 

Professor: So who created evil ?

 

(Student did not answer.)

 

Professor: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don’t they?

 

Student : Yes, sir.

 

Professor: So, who created them ?

 

(Student had no answer.)

 

Professor: Science says you have 5 Senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son, have you ever seen GOD?

 

Student : No, sir.

 

Professor: Tell us if you have ever heard your GOD?

 

Student : No , sir.

 

Professor: Have you ever felt your GOD, tasted your GOD, smelt your GOD? Have you ever had any sensory perception of GOD for that matter?

 

Student : No, sir. I’m afraid I haven’t.

 

Professor: Yet you still believe in Him?

 

Student : Yes.

 

Professor : According to Empirical, Testable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says your GOD doesn’t exist. What do you say to that, son?

 

Student : Nothing. I only have my faith.

 

Professor: Yes, faith. And that is the problem Science has.

 

Student : Professor, is there such a thing as heat?

 

Professor: Yes.

 

Student : And is there such a thing as cold?

 

Professor: Yes.

 

Student : No, sir. There isn’t.

 

(The lecture theater became very quiet with this turn of events.)

 

Student : Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don’t have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can’t go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.

 

(There was pin-drop silence in the lecture theater.)

 

Student : What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?

 

Professor: Yes. What is night if there isn’t darkness?

 

Student : You’re wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light. But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and its called darkness, isn’t it? In reality, darkness isn’t. If it is, well you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn’t you?

 

Professor: So what is the point you are making, young man ?

 

Student : Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed.

 

Professor: Flawed ? Can you explain how?

 

Student : Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good GOD and a bad GOD. You are viewing the concept of GOD as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, Science can’t even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing.

 

Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. Now tell me, Professor, do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?

 

Professor: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do.

 

Student : Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?

 

(The Professor shook his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument was going.)

 

Student : Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor. Are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher?

 

(The class was in uproar.)

 

Student : Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor’s brain?

 

(The class broke out into laughter. )

 

Student : Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor’s brain, felt it, touched or smelt it? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established Rules of Empirical, Stable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says that you have no brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?

 

(The room was silent. The Professor stared at the student, his face unfathomable.)

 

Professor: I guess you’ll have to take them on faith, son.

 

Student : That is it sir … Exactly ! The link between man & GOD is FAITH. That is all that keeps things alive and moving.

[ZRod]

So the student is demonstrating a lack of scientific understanding and arguing over descriptors?

[walksalone]

Where the professor said, "have you ever tasted your god", I immediately wondered, is he catholic?

[knapplc]

Something I ran across that applies directly to this discussion:

 

(Scene: a college lecture hall)

Professor : You are a Christian, aren’t you, son ?

 

Student : Yes, sir.

 

Professor: So, you believe in GOD ?

 

Student : Absolutely, sir.

 

Professor : Is GOD good ?

 

Student : Sure.

 

Professor: Is GOD all powerful ?

 

Student : Yes.

 

Professor: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to GOD to heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But GOD didn’t. How is this GOD good then? Hmm?

 

(Student was silent.)

 

Professor: You can’t answer, can you ? Let’s start again, young fella. Is GOD good?

 

Student : Yes.

 

Professor: Is satan good ?

 

Student : No.

 

Professor: Where does satan come from ?

 

Student : From … GOD …

 

Professor: That’s right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world?

 

Student : Yes.

 

Professor: Evil is everywhere, isn’t it ? And GOD did make everything. Correct?

 

Student : Yes.

 

Professor: So who created evil ?

 

(Student did not answer.)

 

Professor: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don’t they?

 

Student : Yes, sir.

 

Professor: So, who created them ?

 

(Student had no answer.)

 

Professor: Science says you have 5 Senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son, have you ever seen GOD?

 

Student : No, sir.

 

Professor: Tell us if you have ever heard your GOD?

 

Student : No , sir.

 

Professor: Have you ever felt your GOD, tasted your GOD, smelt your GOD? Have you ever had any sensory perception of GOD for that matter?

 

Student : No, sir. I’m afraid I haven’t.

 

Professor: Yet you still believe in Him?

 

Student : Yes.

 

Professor : According to Empirical, Testable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says your GOD doesn’t exist. What do you say to that, son?

 

Student : Nothing. I only have my faith.

 

Professor: Yes, faith. And that is the problem Science has.

 

Student : Professor, is there such a thing as heat?

 

Professor: Yes.

 

Student : And is there such a thing as cold?

 

Professor: Yes.

 

Student : No, sir. There isn’t.

 

(The lecture theater became very quiet with this turn of events.)

 

Student : Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don’t have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can’t go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.

 

(There was pin-drop silence in the lecture theater.)

 

Student : What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?

 

Professor: Yes. What is night if there isn’t darkness?

 

Student : You’re wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light. But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and its called darkness, isn’t it? In reality, darkness isn’t. If it is, well you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn’t you?

 

Professor: So what is the point you are making, young man ?

 

Student : Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed.

 

Professor: Flawed ? Can you explain how?

 

Student : Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good GOD and a bad GOD. You are viewing the concept of GOD as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, Science can’t even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing.

 

Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. Now tell me, Professor, do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?

 

Professor: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do.

 

Student : Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?

 

(The Professor shook his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument was going.)

 

Student : Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor. Are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher?

 

(The class was in uproar.)

 

Student : Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor’s brain?

 

(The class broke out into laughter. )

 

Student : Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor’s brain, felt it, touched or smelt it? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established Rules of Empirical, Stable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says that you have no brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?

 

(The room was silent. The Professor stared at the student, his face unfathomable.)

 

Professor: I guess you’ll have to take them on faith, son.

 

Student : That is it sir … Exactly ! The link between man & GOD is FAITH. That is all that keeps things alive and moving.

 

Why do people believe this tripe and pass it along as truth? How gullible are you?

 

http://www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.asp

[Landlord]

I think most people (at least on here, not in general) understand it's not an actual historical event, but an illustration.

[knapplc]

It's utterly worthless as an illustration. I can dream up any kind of story I want that proves my point by having caricature characters do what I think is right or reasonable. It's stupid and silly to think that illustrates anything.

[HuskerShark]

It's utterly worthless as an illustration. I can dream up any kind of story I want that proves my point by having caricature characters do what I think is right or reasonable. It's stupid and silly to think that illustrates anything.

 

People do it all the time, and in the case of this story, it's very effective. While the last 2 or 3 lines were pretty cheesy and unrealistic, the story shows that even those who think the earth was created by pure chance, or the big bang, or primordial ooze or what-have-you, there is still zero scientific basis to back this belief.

 

So essentially, those beliefs are not any more fact-based than religion is, but people who have those beliefs try to play it off like it is backed by science, which it isn't.

 

That story was not meant to prove the existence of God, but rather to prove that the belief in God is no less science based than any other belief about how the world was made.

[knapplc]

(Scene: a Christian college lecture hall)

 

Professor : You are an Atheist, aren’t you, son ?

 

Student : Yes, sir.

 

Professor: So, you don't believe in GOD ?

 

Student : No, sir.

 

Professor : You don't believe GOD is good?

 

Student : No sir, I don't believe he exists.

 

Professor: You don't believe GOD is all powerful ?

 

Student : No.

 

Professor: My brother was cured of cancer after he prayed to GOD to heal him. Most Atheists wouldn't attempt to help others who are ill. But GOD did. What is the benefit of Atheism, then? Hmm?

 

(Student was silent because he had been crushed by this brilliant logic he was unable to refute.)

 

Professor: You can’t answer, can you? Let’s start again, young fella. Is Atheism logical?

 

Student : Yes.

 

Professor: Is Atheism good ?

 

Student : It is neither good nor bad.

 

Professor: Where does Atheism come from ?

 

Student : From a lack of belief in… GOD …

 

Professor: That’s right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world?

 

Student : Yes.

 

Professor: Evil is everywhere, isn’t it? And Atheism doesn't prevent evil. Correct?

 

Student : Yes.

 

Professor: So who created evil?

 

(Student did not answer because the professor was talking WAY over his head and the poor student was crushed by the truth of what the Professor was saying.)

 

Professor: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don’t they?

 

Student : Yes, sir.

 

Professor: So, who created them ?

 

(Student had no answer, and stood silent, shamed by his inability to combat the professor's genius.)

 

Professor: God gave you have 5 Senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son, have you ever seen Atheism?

 

Student : No, sir.

 

Professor: Tell us if you have ever heard Atheism?

 

Student : No, sir.

 

Professor: Have you ever felt Atheism, tasted Atheism, smelt Atheism? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Atheism for that matter?

 

Student : No, sir. I’m afraid I haven’t.

 

Professor: Yet you still don't believe in God, who gave you all these things?

 

Student : No, I don't.

 

Professor : According to Empirical, Testable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says Atheism doesn’t exist. What do you say to that, son?

 

Student : Nothing. I only have my reason.

 

Professor: Yes, reason. And that is the problem with your belief in Atheism.

 

Student : Professor, is there such a thing as God?

 

Professor: Yes.

 

Student : And is there such a thing as the Holy Spirit?

 

Professor: Yes.

 

Student : No, sir. There isn’t.

 

(The lecture theater became very quiet with this turn of events.)

 

Student : Sir, you can have lots of stories about God, even more stories, parables, books, prophets, or priests. But we don’t have anything that can be defined as a belief in Atheism. We can have no belief in a "god," but we can’t go any further after that. There is no such thing as a belief in Atheism. Atheism is only a word we use to describe the absence of faith in a god. We cannot measure Atheism. Faith is a belief. Atheism is not the opposite of faith, sir, just the absence of it.

 

(There was pin-drop silence in the lecture theater as the tables were turned by the wily student upon the hapless, bumbling professor.)

 

Student: What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?

 

Professor: Yes. What is night if there isn’t darkness?

 

Student: You’re wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light. But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and its called darkness, isn’t it? In reality, darkness isn’t. If it is, well you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn’t you?

 

Professor: So what is the point you are making, young man ?

 

Student : Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed.

 

Professor: Flawed ? Can you explain how?

 

Student : Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a belief in GOD and a belief in no god. You are viewing the concept of Atheism as something tangible, something we can measure. Sir, Science can already explain how a thought is formed. It uses electricity and magnetism, and it has been seen and measured, although the process is not yet fully understood. To view Logic as the opposite of Belief is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing.

 

Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. Now tell me, Professor, do you teach your students that earth was created in six days?

 

Professor: If you are referring to the first chapter of the book of Genesis in the Bible, yes, of course, I do.

 

Student: Have you ever observed creation with your own eyes, sir?

 

(The Professor shook his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument was going.)

 

Student : Since no one has ever observed the process of creation at work and cannot even prove that this process happened, are you not teaching your opinion, sir?

 

(The class was in uproar.)

 

Student: Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor’s God?

 

(The class broke out into laughter. )

 

Student : Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor’s God, felt it, touched or smelt it? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established Rules of Empirical, Stable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says that you have no God, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?

 

(The room was silent. The Professor stared at the student, his face unfathomable, realizing he had been shown up in front of his class by a mere student.)

 

Professor: I guess you’ll have to take them on faith, son.

 

Student : That is the problem sir … Exactly ! The link between man & life is evidence. That is all that keeps things alive and moving.

 

(The professor realized his whole life had been a lie, and he renounced his faith from that day and lived the rest of his life based on truth and reason)

 

---

 

 

There. That properly illustrates my point. Everyone can rest better now having read this.

[knapplc]

It's utterly worthless as an illustration. I can dream up any kind of story I want that proves my point by having caricature characters do what I think is right or reasonable. It's stupid and silly to think that illustrates anything.

 

People do it all the time, and in the case of this story, it's very effective. While the last 2 or 3 lines were pretty cheesy and unrealistic, the story shows that even those who think the earth was created by pure chance, or the big bang, or primordial ooze or what-have-you, there is still zero scientific basis to back this belief. So essentially, those beliefs are not any more fact-based than religion is, but people who have those beliefs try to play it off like it is backed by science, which it isn't.

 

That is so utterly untrue as to be absurd. The science is there. Go educate yourself.

[HuskerShark]

My room in the school sits right next to the science room. During my prep period one day, I heard the science teacher explaining to the class "how matter was created" and "how the earth was created." His explanation was something along the lines of "There were the gobs of ooze bouncing around so fast that BOOM! It created the earth."

 

Explain to me how exactly that is science based....

 

I realize that people who try to think scientifically usually immediately expel the notion of any higher power at work, but it's pretty laughable how things such as creation are taught in schools.

[walksalone]

I just don't get how folks can go all in on a book, that might not even be true. How do you know that it's not completely made up?

 

But yet, because of a fabricated story, you can immediately condemn those who aren't like-minded such as yourself, even in some instances justifying the killing of other to further your beliefs.

 

Stop and think how absolutely irrational that sounds...

[knapplc]

My room in the school sits right next to the science room. During my prep period one day, I heard the science teacher explaining to the class "how matter was created" and "how the earth was created." His explanation was something along the lines of "There were the gobs of ooze bouncing around so fast that BOOM! It created the earth."

 

Explain to me how exactly that is science based....

 

I realize that people who try to think scientifically usually immediately expel the notion of any higher power at work, but it's pretty laughable how things such as creation are taught in schools.

So your school's science teacher doesn't know about solar nebulae? Doesn't know about gravitational interaction of large and small bodies? Doesn't know about accretion? Doesn't know about nuclear fusion/fission?

 

That's a tremendously weak school, if true. I'd be embarrassed to work there.

[walksalone]

My room in the school sits right next to the science room. During my prep period one day, I heard the science teacher explaining to the class "how matter was created" and "how the earth was created." His explanation was something along the lines of "There were the gobs of ooze bouncing around so fast that BOOM! It created the earth."

 

Explain to me how exactly that is science based....

 

I realize that people who try to think scientifically usually immediately expel the notion of any higher power at work, but it's pretty laughable how things such as creation are taught in schools.

So your school's science teacher doesn't know about solar nebulae? Doesn't know about gravitational interaction of large and small bodies? Doesn't know about accretion? Doesn't know about nuclear fusion/fission?

 

That's a tremendously weak school, if true. I'd be embarrassed to work there.

 

If my teacher is describing the "building blocks of the universe" as "gobs of ooze", I want my f*ckin' money back...