Rancher vs. Feds

[MidnightRider]

Knapp, are you asking if I would fire on another citizen in an LEO capacity?

 

I only have a minute and won't be able to answer everyone right now. Damned bunker partially caved. DelRoy got crushed by a pallet of 7.62 and I still haven't finished digging Bubba and Cooter out.

[MidnightRider]

No, Blackhorse. That's just silly. You know its really "Conspiracy Theory." I expected better from you, get your head in the game, dude.

[knapplc]

Knapp, are you asking if I would fire on another citizen in an LEO capacity?

 

Yeah. That's pretty much what this thread is about, innit?

[walksalone]

America, the finest country anyone ever stole...

 

Chief, out...

[MidnightRider]

Knapp, are you asking if I would fire on another citizen in an LEO capacity?

 

Yeah. That's pretty much what this thread is about, innit?

 

Well, in the scenario you presented, I wasn't sure.

 

The answer would be no because I would never wear a badge.

[MidnightRider]

America, the finest country anyone ever stole...

 

Chief, out...

 

Concur.

[tschu]

Knapp, are you asking if I would fire on another citizen in an LEO capacity?

 

Yeah. That's pretty much what this thread is about, innit?

 

Well, in the scenario you presented, I wasn't sure.

 

The answer would be no because I would never wear a badge.

Solid answer. Abstract thought seems to be your strong suit.

[carlfense]

America, the finest country anyone ever stole...

 

Chief, out...

[MidnightRider]

America, the finest country anyone ever stole...

 

Chief, out...

 

Is it really that hard to understand than I have a differing viewpoint than you do? I don't try to force my thoughts upon others, I certainly don't advocate violence and damned sure don't want to see this country become any more divided than it already is. So, what's up?

I don't ridiclue you for your viewpoint but you (and others in this thread) seem to be comfortable hiding behind your keyboard(s), doing so to me. Why is that? Does that make you all part of the cool kids club? Does it give you something to tell your other cool friends or co-workers? Does it make you feel all He Man?

 

It all boils down to this (for me); I've given a very significant portion of my life to this country, lost friends who were doing the same and don't take my oath lightly. Yet you feel the need to belittle me? I find the very thought of surrendering any of my liberty or freedom to be repugnant and repulsive and will never do so, willingly. Its as simple as that.

 

If you want the fed up your ass with a flashlight every time you sneeze, then get on with your bad self.

 

Me? I can take care of myself, thanks. I don't need a Nanny State doing it for me. If I wanted that, I'd move to X European country.

 

Now, you have the best day ever.

[carlfense]

Is it really that hard to understand than I have a differing viewpoint than you do? I don't try to force my thoughts upon others, I certainly don't advocate violence and damned sure don't want to see this country become any more divided than it already is. So, what's up?

I don't ridiclue you for your viewpoint but you (and others in this thread) seem to be comfortable hiding behind your keyboard(s), doing so to me. Why is that? Does that make you all part of the cool kids club? Does it give you something to tell your other cool friends or co-workers? Does it make you feel all He Man?

 

It all boils down to this (for me); I've given a very significant portion of my life to this country, lost friends who were doing the same and don't take my oath lightly. Yet you feel the need to belittle me? I find the very thought of surrendering any of my liberty or freedom to be repugnant and repulsive and will never do so, willingly. Its as simple as that.

 

If you want the fed up your ass with a flashlight every time you sneeze, then get on with your bad self.

 

Me? I can take care of myself, thanks. I don't need a Nanny State doing it for me. If I wanted that, I'd move to X European country.

 

Now, you have the best day ever.

You can have whatever viewpoint you'd like. If you make an argument that I find ridiculous, I'll say so. I'll probably even explain why I think the way that I do. I trust that you'll do the same for me.

 

Where you tend to lose me in this thread is when we're talking about a common criminal . . . and a government agency that is attempting to enforce the law . . . and then you somehow get to the conclusions that 1. the government can't own anything, 2. the fed up my @$$ with a flashlight, 3. the nanny state taking care of you, and 4. bizarre conspiracy theories. Non sequiturs, basically.

 

None of this has the significance that you seem to be attaching to it. You've expressed an opinion. Others have disagreed. It's not personal.

[walksalone]

America, the finest country anyone ever stole...

 

Chief, out...

 

Thank god somebody knows I'm not serious...

[tschu]

Is it really that hard to understand than I have a differing viewpoint than you do?

 

amazing

[BigRedBuster]

America, the finest country anyone ever stole...

 

Chief, out...

 

Is it really that hard to understand than I have a differing viewpoint than you do? I don't try to force my thoughts upon others, I certainly don't advocate violence and damned sure don't want to see this country become any more divided than it already is. So, what's up?

I don't ridiclue you for your viewpoint but you (and others in this thread) seem to be comfortable hiding behind your keyboard(s), doing so to me. Why is that? Does that make you all part of the cool kids club? Does it give you something to tell your other cool friends or co-workers? Does it make you feel all He Man?

 

It all boils down to this (for me); I've given a very significant portion of my life to this country, lost friends who were doing the same and don't take my oath lightly. Yet you feel the need to belittle me? I find the very thought of surrendering any of my liberty or freedom to be repugnant and repulsive and will never do so, willingly. Its as simple as that.

 

If you want the fed up your ass with a flashlight every time you sneeze, then get on with your bad self.

 

Me? I can take care of myself, thanks. I don't need a Nanny State doing it for me. If I wanted that, I'd move to X European country.

 

Now, you have the best day ever.

 

Midnight....

 

I'm assuming from your statements that you have been in the military. I don't know a one person on this site that isn't going to respect you and your sacrifice 100%.

 

However, that doesn't mean that if you come on here and make some wild claims that you aren't going to be challenged. That is what is happening and when you really don't back them up, then that is when the conversation gets goofy. If you don't like it, then express your opinions in a manner in which you back up what you are saying.

[TGHusker]

Here is a time line presented by the Washington Post

 

http://www.washingto...ral-government/

 

My take, the guy is disobeying the law. He needs to pay the fines. It is like me as a hunter, expecting to hunt on land I've leased for hunting wtout paying for the leases. The lessor would not allow me to hunt on the land again. He has a warp sense of the constitution. There is a strong sentiment against the federal gov't now (NSA, many who don't care for apparent overreaching policies of the federal govt) but the law is the law. In the same way conservatives want the fed govt to enforce boarder laws, they should also expect the fed to enforce these types of laws also. In this case Bundy's cattle are the 'illegals". This isn't about liberty vs tyranny but about the rule of law. You can't have it both ways (wt that said, I'd like to see dirty Harry Reid to get more excited about enforcing boarder laws - he too is hypocritical - picking and choosing which laws to support) There are also reports that Harry's son has money interests in the area. I haven't looked into that much - maybe Harry's anger is more about personal gain then the rule of law.

 

The more I read about this, the more far fringe Bundy and his friends and supporters look.

 

 

 

Some highlights:

This is an old fight:

1989: The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service lists the desert tortoise as an endangered species. A year later, its designation was changed to "threatened."

March 1993: The Washington Post publishes a story about the federal government's efforts to protect the desert tortoise in Nevada. Near Las Vegas, the Bureau of Land Management designated hundreds of thousands of acres of federal land for strict conservation efforts. "Among the conservation measures required," according to the Post's coverage, "are the elimination of livestock grazing and strict limits on off-road vehicle use in the protected tortoise habitat. Two weeks ago, the managers of the plan completed the task of purchasing grazing privileges from cattle ranchers who formerly used BLM land."

Many people were not impressed by the new conservation plan. "Cliven Bundy, whose family homesteaded his ranch in 1877 and who accuses the government of a 'land grab,' are digging in for a fight and say they will not willingly sell their grazing privileges to create another preserve.

 

This is an amazing Stat (maybe the state of Nevada should be a federal district!!. Make L Vegas area a part of Arizona and Reno/Carson City a part of Calif - make Harry Reid's senate seat disappear! - no I'm not serious)

 

March 18, 1996: The federal government, which owns 87 percent of the land in Nevada, is still worried about potential violence if they try to remove illegally grazing cattle from protected land. Two more pipebombs had exploded in Forest Service and Bureau of Land Management offices in the past two years. The Justice Department has 12 lawsuits pending against Nevada cattle ranchers. A federal court in the state struck down the Nye County ordinance that caused trouble the year before. Not that ranchers took that as reason to stand down, however. One local resident told USA Today,"A single district court decision in one district doesn't settle it. It's just a single day in the year of a revolutionary war. We're going to continue on with the fight." Bundy is also continuing to graze on federal lands. "I'm still saying the state of Nevada owns that land, and the federal government has been an encroacher. I'm not moving my cattle. We have ... rights."

 

Get's interesting here: BLM stops the round up but some liberal group pushes the BLM to continue:

 

April 2012: The BLM plans to round up Bundy's cattle. After several threats, these plans are abandoned. The Center for Biological Diversity files an intent to sue against the BLM for canceling their plans.

May 2012: BLM files a complain in a federal Las Vegas court seeking an injunction against Bundy

 

 

 

The Family army is gathered together - their Alamo I guess:

April 1, 2014: Bundy's 14 children and 52 grandchildren are all bunkered down at his house waiting for the BLM to arrive. Bundy is giving constant interviews and making constant calls to local and state officials. BLM has set up two "First Amendment areas" in nearby Bunkerville

 

I'm beginning to think that Bundy and his son are a couple of bricks short of a full load:

 

April 5, 2014: After decades of trepidation, federal officials and cowboys start rounding up what they think are Cliven Bundy's hundreds of cows. The operation was going to cost $1 million, and reportedly last until May. BLM contends that Bundy owes $1 million in fees, and will also have to pay the round-up expenses. Bundy — who retorts that he only owes $300,000 in fees — says the city folk are only hurting themselves by taking his cows. He told a reporter from the Las Vegas Review Journal that there would be 500,000 fewer hamburgers per year after his cows were towed away; “But nobody is thinking about that. Why would they? They’re all thinking about the desert tortoise. Hey, the tortoise is a fine creature. I like him. I have no problem with him. But taking another man’s cattle? It just doesn’t seem right.”

He also thinks the co-habitating cows and tortoises could have a beautiful, symbiotic relationship if the government would let them. “The tortoises eat the cow manure, too. It’s filled with protein.”

April 6, 2014: Cliven Bundy's 37-year-old son is arrested for "refusing to disperse" and resisting arrest. He was released the following day. His face is covered with scratches from fighting the feds. Before he left the detention center, authorities gave him a tuna fish sandwich. "It wasn’t poison," he said. "I just ate it.”

 

 

The Nut Cases arrive. What idiots - sounds like Saddam's tactics - see last statement.

April 10, 2014: A protest camp has formed. There is a sign at the entrance that reads, "MILITA SIGHN IN."

Traveling from as close as St. George — and as far as Montana — a mix of characters waved picket signs at an encampment just before a bridge over the Virgin River, protesting the BLM’s campaign.

“This is a better education than being in school! I’m glad I brought you. I’m a good mom,” said Ilona Ence, a 49-year-old mother from St. George and Bundy relative who brought her four teenage kids to the ranch. “They’re learning about the Constitution.”

... Jack Faught, Bundy’s first cousin, drove his forest green 1929 Chevy truck from Mesquite loaded with water and Gatorade.

“It’s not about the cows,” he said. “It’s about the freedom to make our own choices close to home.”

Polo Parra, a 27-year-old tattoo artist from Las Vegas, even showed up with two of his friends to support the rancher. Dressed in baggy clothes and covered in tattoos, the group carried signs that read “TYRANNY IS ALIVE” and “WHERE’S THE JUSTICE?” in red spray-painted letters.

One of Parra’s friends, who would not share his name, had a pistol tucked in his waistband.

“I think it’s bull, and it really made me mad,” said Parra, who decided to make the trip when he heard about the violence that broke out on the ranch. “This isn’t about no turtles or cows.”

One protester, a former Arizona sheriff named Richard Mack, told Fox News about the militia's plans if violence broke out in Bunkerville. “We were actually strategizing to put all the women up at the front. If they are going to start shooting, it’s going to be women that are going to be televised all across the world getting shot by these rogue federal officers.”

[carlfense]

The more I read about this, the more far fringe Bundy and his friends and supporters look.

Agreed.