The Ultimate Conundrum.

[ZRod]

When you look at the complexity of the universe--even what little we perceive of it--I just don't see how someone could deny God. It seems rather implausible to say that all this happened spontaneously due to some bang, and then life sparked into being because the conditions were right and evolved into the world teaming with life that we have today.

 

And then people point to science as if that somehow disproves God. Modern science has barely scratched the surface. All of modern science would not manufacture one butterfly from scratch. And yet some believe that butterflies, and all life forms, simply came together by happenstance. I just don't have enough faith in happenstance to believe that could happen.

 

 

All of modern science has only been around for a couple of hundred years, and truly modern science that could even have to potential to manufacture a butterfly has only been about a hundred years. Isn't it asking a bit much to accelerate the creation of something by 10,000,000%? But I mean, things are happening.

 

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/synthetic-genome-cell/

[Husker_x]

 

 

The Flying Spaghetti Monster is a mocking Internet meme whose sole purpose is the argument: Since you can't disprove the Flying Spaghetti Monster that means God is not real. Kind of silly really.

It's as valid as any other religion. Your mockery of my beliefs is completely unwarranted.

 

 

Just as valid? Name one person martyred in the name of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. There are thousands of Christians who preferred death to renouncing their religion. So "valid" is not the right word.

 

Did you ever stop and wonder why someone would prefer death to renouncing their faith? And not just a painless execution, but often deaths such as being burned at the stake or crucified. Do you think it's because they were just very stubborn and ignorant, or could there have been something else?

 

 

You mean like suicide bombers?

[NUance]

 

 

 

The Flying Spaghetti Monster is a mocking Internet meme whose sole purpose is the argument: Since you can't disprove the Flying Spaghetti Monster that means God is not real. Kind of silly really.

It's as valid as any other religion. Your mockery of my beliefs is completely unwarranted.

 

 

Just as valid? Name one person martyred in the name of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. There are thousands of Christians who preferred death to renouncing their religion. So "valid" is not the right word.

 

Did you ever stop and wonder why someone would prefer death to renouncing their faith? And not just a painless execution, but often deaths such as being burned at the stake or crucified. Do you think it's because they were just very stubborn and ignorant, or could there have been something else?

 

 

You mean like suicide bombers?

 

 

Yeah, I guess you could say they have great faith. Even though all Christians and the vast majority of Muslims would say that their faith is misplaced.

 

I sometimes wonder if Islam is a valid religion--that is, mainstream Islam, not extremist suicide bomber Islam. If I understand correctly, Muslims say they worship the same God as Christians and Jews. But Muslims believe that Jesus was a mere prophet rather than the son of God, and that Muhammad is a prophet as well.

[NUance]

 

When you look at the complexity of the universe--even what little we perceive of it--I just don't see how someone could deny God. It seems rather implausible to say that all this happened spontaneously due to some bang, and then life sparked into being because the conditions were right and evolved into the world teaming with life that we have today.

 

And then people point to science as if that somehow disproves God. Modern science has barely scratched the surface. All of modern science would not manufacture one butterfly from scratch. And yet some believe that butterflies, and all life forms, simply came together by happenstance. I just don't have enough faith in happenstance to believe that could happen.

 

 

All of modern science has only been around for a couple of hundred years, and truly modern science that could even have to potential to manufacture a butterfly has only been about a hundred years. Isn't it asking a bit much to accelerate the creation of something by 10,000,000%? But I mean, things are happening.

 

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/synthetic-genome-cell/

 

 

But I thought science has all the answers??

[carlfense]

 

But I thought science has all the answers??

That's not what science would tell you. If you want hard and fast answers, religion is where you should look.

 

Science is about doubt (sometimes close to certainty but never absolute certainty) and questions.

[Landlord]

 

I sometimes wonder if Islam is a valid religion--that is, mainstream Islam, not extremist suicide bomber Islam. If I understand correctly, Muslims say they worship the same God as Christians and Jews. But Muslims believe that Jesus was a mere prophet rather than the son of God, and that Muhammad is a prophet as well.

 

 

 

 

Propaganda says it well, I think:

 

 

"And Muslims— excuse my boldness— but what if you're lying, too?

Like you don't ever have questions?

As if you've never wondered why Allah's ears only hear directionally,

and if you accidentally point it slightly north easterly then you've blasphemed?

As if the thought has never crossed your mind

that the Jihad has interpreted the Quran correctly

and you are what we Christians would call 'lukewarm'?

Which makes you much more like my evanjellyfish churchianity would allow me to admit.

And you call me on it; I'll deny it, just don't believe me

because I'm lying.

I strain at gnats; I focus on silliness; I act like God has joined a political party— just like you.

As if you've never thought,

"What if I was paralyzed and I can't make my pilgrimage to Mecca—

yet I follow the text better than my whole family? Is there enough mercy for me?" "

[ZRod]

 

 

When you look at the complexity of the universe--even what little we perceive of it--I just don't see how someone could deny God. It seems rather implausible to say that all this happened spontaneously due to some bang, and then life sparked into being because the conditions were right and evolved into the world teaming with life that we have today.

 

And then people point to science as if that somehow disproves God. Modern science has barely scratched the surface. All of modern science would not manufacture one butterfly from scratch. And yet some believe that butterflies, and all life forms, simply came together by happenstance. I just don't have enough faith in happenstance to believe that could happen.

 

 

All of modern science has only been around for a couple of hundred years, and truly modern science that could even have to potential to manufacture a butterfly has only been about a hundred years. Isn't it asking a bit much to accelerate the creation of something by 10,000,000%? But I mean, things are happening.

 

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/synthetic-genome-cell/

 

 

But I thought science has all the answers??

 

Who said that? All I'm saying is that for not having some almighty power giving us the answers, were doing a pretty efficient job so far.

[EbylHusker]

Anyone claiming science has all the answers is a f'ing moron. Now, whether you choose to fill in the gaps with belief in some kind of higher power determines whether you're (sanely) religious or not. It's as simple as that.

[Scratchtown]

These threads just feel phony to me. It's obvious that the OP already has their conclusion so framing out all these questions just seems like a way to self-promote rather than to have considerate dialogue.

Uh, so because I posted MY conclusion, with the assumption of being right, it's self promoting?

 

What is a message board and opinions for if not self promoting our own thoughts?

 

I feel these questions are ones that should be thought about regardless of belief system. You know LOMS, sometimes you tend to post things that sound smart and thought out, but really just give me the impression of borderline attention craving and juvenile.

 

Excuse and offensive tone.

[EbylHusker]

I get what he's trying to say, though. There is no real discussion that can come from this. There is nothing I can say to you, or anyone else, that will make an already religious person not fill in the gaps with belief in God. And there is nothing you can say to me that will make me start believing in God to fill in the gaps. So what discussion can be had beyond simply stating what you do or do not believe? That's where the self-promotion part starts to come into play.

[Landlord]

Sorry I didn't quite mean it that way.

 

 

It just seems that you're more interested in sharing with the rest of us what you think than actually wanting to know what anyone else thinks, which is fine because we are on a message board and that's part of discussion - but it makes me wonder about the need to make a thread rather than just posting about it somewhere else?

[JJ Husker]

I only have one comment to make about the original post. The conclusion is flawed. Just because we do not have the answers on the smallest particles or the furthest extents of the universe does not mean- God. However, it doesn't prove or disprove God so God is possible.

 

To be clear (like ya'll didn't know already), I do believe in God and that he created everything from nothing. But, the lack of a scientific explanation of how he caused it to happen does not mean there is or isn't a God, just that we don't know how, or rather why, it happened. Science will keep pushing and chasing the question in both directions but I do not believe it will ever get to the point of proving or disproving God beyond any reasonable doubt. I don't think science is built to deal with questions of that nature. I believe there are things that exceed human understanding and this quest is one of those things. Religion, belief, faith, God, etc. fill in some of the blanks for those of us who need the blanks filled in. Once again, that doesn't prove or disprove anything, it's just the way it is.

[knapplc]

I only have one comment to make about the original post. The conclusion is flawed. Just because we do not have the answers on the smallest particles or the furthest extents of the universe does not mean- God. However, it doesn't prove or disprove God so God is possible.

 

 

Exactly.

[Scratchtown]

I guess the basic question on Christianity is this.

To you, did Jesus rise from the grave or not?

 

I have said this before in a topic somewhere else but I'll type it out again. Jesus, and his followers existed that can't be refuted. Jesus' closest disciples that were with him the night he was arrested were absolutely TERRIFIED of being associated with Jesus in fear of what would happen to them. 3 days later Christ is believed to have risen, and appeared to them, and proved to them that he was in fact ALIVE! So they went out to preach until they were killed for doing so while never wavering in their proclamations that Jesus IS Lord.

People don't just go from being terrified from association to be willing to get martyred for that same association and what they saw as truth and believed.

So did Jesus rise from the grave or not?

 

I think he did, but, thats just me. Everyone is free to make their own choice.

[NUance]

I guess the basic question on Christianity is this.

 

To you, did Jesus rise from the grave or not?

 

I have said this before in a topic somewhere else but I'll type it out again. Jesus, and his followers existed that can't be refuted. Jesus' closest disciples that were with him the night he was arrested were absolutely TERRIFIED of being associated with Jesus in fear of what would happen to them. 3 days later Christ is believed to have risen, and appeared to them, and proved to them that he was in fact ALIVE! So they went out to preach until they were killed for doing so while never wavering in their proclamations that Jesus IS Lord.

 

People don't just go from being terrified from association to be willing to get martyred for that same association and what they saw as truth and believed.

 

So did Jesus rise from the grave or not?

 

I think he did, but, thats just me. Everyone is free to make their own choice.

Yeah, even people who don't believe in God or Jesus would have to admit that something significant happened at about the time of Jesus' crucifixion to bolster the disciples. They went from being afraid to admit they knew Jesus for fear of persecution, to fully devoting their lives to spreading Christianity up to the time of their rather violent deaths.