strigori Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 Obviously we have proven many times it just doesn't work. However, I am puzzled at something. Why can we go kick the sh#t out of Germany and Japan, have bases there till this day and be their friends now and they have built themselves both to be powers in the world. Meanwhile, so many other places it just turns into a disaster? Do you think it has to do with the society that is within the country itself? It is absolutely the culture. Religion is a huge part, for all the talk of Islam being a peaceful religion, the two main factions have been killing each other forever. Germany, being a predominantly Christian nation doesnt have that issue, by and large the Catholics and Protestants have not been actively trying to kill each other. And Japan, which has Shinto the main religion if I remember right, like most eastern religions, doesnt have that issue to begin with. Another giant issue is how people self identify. Both the Germans and the Japanese will self identify as German or Japanese above all else. In the middle east, the first identifier tends to be Islam, then the sub-sect and the Nation won't even be in 3rd place for many. Without the national self identity getting people to put effort and pain into building and holding a nation together is going to be problematic at least. And in the case of Japan, the Allies very wisely allowed the Japanese to maintain the Emperor in a position similar to the English Queen. Keeping a core of what they self identified with in place. Link to comment
carlfense Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 Biden opps - of course not bigger than 'mission accomplished' http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/biden-once-called-iraq-one-obamas-great-achievments_794909.html Boy . . . how the Weekly Standards standards have fallen. They sure had to stretch that headline, didn't they? Link to comment
carlfense Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 It has everything to do with the Neanderthals inhabiting that particular patch of earth. Heathens, through and through. Let's see; they stone girls to death just for going to school. Check. They wipe their a#ses with their hands. Check. They sh#t all over a toilet instead of in it. Check. Women are for pro-creating and boys are for "fun." Check. Barbarians, the whole lot of them. I would not lose a single second of sleep if we turned the entire region into an ashtray. You know how they view homosexuality . . . right? Some of those might hit close to home in other religions as well. Link to comment
walksalone Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 WWII showed us that only complete and utter annihilation will make your enemy surrender. That didn't happen in Korea, Vietnam, Gulf War I or II, or Afghanistan. We gave too much credence to religion, warlords, culture, collateral damage, and popular thought. The reason there is more criticism now is based on the popular opinion of the war, good or bad. WWII-Popular opinion was good. No one cares how we win. Just win Vietnam-Popular opinion was bad, so our soldiers we deemed baby killers Afghanistan-Twin Towers go down, Popular opinion was pretty good so there wasn't much criticism Iraq-Popular opinion is bad so our soldiers are criticized again. F*cking nailed it... Link to comment
wildman Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 Obviously we have proven many times it just doesn't work. However, I am puzzled at something. Why can we go kick the sh#t out of Germany and Japan, have bases there till this day and be their friends now and they have built themselves both to be powers in the world. Meanwhile, so many other places it just turns into a disaster? Do you think it has to do with the society that is within the country itself? It has everything to do with the Neanderthals inhabiting that particular patch of earth. Heathens, through and through. Let's see; they stone girls to death just for going to school. Check. They wipe their a#ses with their hands. Check. They sh#t all over a toilet instead of in it. Check. Women are for pro-creating and boys are for "fun." Check. Barbarians, the whole lot of them. I would not lose a single second of sleep if we turned the entire region into an ashtray. Before anyone gets all butt-hurt about what I just wrote, I invite you to spend a little time with the friendly folks of the Middle East. You will walk away stunned... I did two tours in Iraq spending about 2 years there. The first was in Baghdad with an engineer unit, the second in Mosul with an eod unit. Yes i seen some things that I personally don't agree with. Such as 6 year old kids doing work of cleaning porta potties while an adult sat in the air conditioned truck the entire time. Even though we don't agree with it that is their culture. Believe it or not as we were there helping build their government. Those types of things started to change. We would see 2 adults come and cleaning the porta potties and no kids be involved at all. I don't think nor wish or want them to be turned into an ashtray as how you put it. Don't act as if we don't have similar problems here. We have racist/serial killers that kill others due to skin color or for any other criteria their warped minds come up with. Or gangs that beat up, stab, shoot people for walking down the wrong side of a street or wearing the wrong color. We to use to think similar to women were for procreating only. But we have gotten smarter and moved on passed that thankfully. If we can learn from those mistakes and become better as a culture. Then they can to. 1 Link to comment
MidnightRider Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 It has everything to do with the Neanderthals inhabiting that particular patch of earth. Heathens, through and through. Let's see; they stone girls to death just for going to school. Check. They wipe their a#ses with their hands. Check. They sh#t all over a toilet instead of in it. Check. Women are for pro-creating and boys are for "fun." Check. Barbarians, the whole lot of them. I would not lose a single second of sleep if we turned the entire region into an ashtray. You know how they view homosexuality . . . right? Some of those might hit close to home in other religions as well. I do, but it sure as hell doesn't stop them. Ever heard of "boy love Thursday?" Dress them up and put makeup on them and everything. This is no joke, it is very real. Disgusting animals. It may very well bleed over into other religions but that is of no consequence to me. I practice my own faith and don't need organized religion to tell me how to do it. Yet, I digress... Link to comment
krill Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 I did two tours in Iraq spending about 2 years there. The first was in Baghdad with an engineer unit, the second in Mosul with an eod unit. Yes i seen some things that I personally don't agree with. Such as 6 year old kids doing work of cleaning porta potties while an adult sat in the air conditioned truck the entire time. Even though we don't agree with it that is their culture. Believe it or not as we were there helping build their government. Those types of things started to change. We would see 2 adults come and cleaning the porta potties and no kids be involved at all. I don't think nor wish or want them to be turned into an ashtray as how you put it. Don't act as if we don't have similar problems here. We have racist/serial killers that kill others due to skin color or for any other criteria their warped minds come up with. Or gangs that beat up, stab, shoot people for walking down the wrong side of a street or wearing the wrong color. We to use to think similar to women were for procreating only. But we have gotten smarter and moved on passed that thankfully. If we can learn from those mistakes and become better as a culture. Then they can to. Interesting information, but it seems that despite all the blood, sweat, and money that was thrown into Iraq, little was accomplished to stamp out corruption or ensure governance that is at all competent. In fact the regime of corruption was tacitly used as matter of convenience while our forces occupied the country. The Iraqi military is also plagued by corruption, cronyism, and generally incompetent leadership. These are pretty much the same circumstances that were present when the government and military of South Vietnam rapidly collapsed, as well as Afghanistan today. Link to comment
MidnightRider Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 Obviously we have proven many times it just doesn't work. However, I am puzzled at something. Why can we go kick the sh#t out of Germany and Japan, have bases there till this day and be their friends now and they have built themselves both to be powers in the world. Meanwhile, so many other places it just turns into a disaster? Do you think it has to do with the society that is within the country itself? It has everything to do with the Neanderthals inhabiting that particular patch of earth. Heathens, through and through. Let's see; they stone girls to death just for going to school. Check. They wipe their a#ses with their hands. Check. They sh#t all over a toilet instead of in it. Check. Women are for pro-creating and boys are for "fun." Check. Barbarians, the whole lot of them. I would not lose a single second of sleep if we turned the entire region into an ashtray. Before anyone gets all butt-hurt about what I just wrote, I invite you to spend a little time with the friendly folks of the Middle East. You will walk away stunned... I did two tours in Iraq spending about 2 years there. The first was in Baghdad with an engineer unit, the second in Mosul with an eod unit. Yes i seen some things that I personally don't agree with. Such as 6 year old kids doing work of cleaning porta potties while an adult sat in the air conditioned truck the entire time. Even though we don't agree with it that is their culture. Believe it or not as we were there helping build their government. Those types of things started to change. We would see 2 adults come and cleaning the porta potties and no kids be involved at all. I don't think nor wish or want them to be turned into an ashtray as how you put it. Don't act as if we don't have similar problems here. We have racist/serial killers that kill others due to skin color or for any other criteria their warped minds come up with. Or gangs that beat up, stab, shoot people for walking down the wrong side of a street or wearing the wrong color. We to use to think similar to women were for procreating only. But we have gotten smarter and moved on passed that thankfully. If we can learn from those mistakes and become better as a culture. Then they can to. Huh? You're seriously going to compare the problems in America to those of Iraq? Not even the same universe. Wow dude, you really reached on that one. Link to comment
MidnightRider Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 I did two tours in Iraq spending about 2 years there. The first was in Baghdad with an engineer unit, the second in Mosul with an eod unit. Yes i seen some things that I personally don't agree with. Such as 6 year old kids doing work of cleaning porta potties while an adult sat in the air conditioned truck the entire time. Even though we don't agree with it that is their culture. Believe it or not as we were there helping build their government. Those types of things started to change. We would see 2 adults come and cleaning the porta potties and no kids be involved at all. I don't think nor wish or want them to be turned into an ashtray as how you put it. Don't act as if we don't have similar problems here. We have racist/serial killers that kill others due to skin color or for any other criteria their warped minds come up with. Or gangs that beat up, stab, shoot people for walking down the wrong side of a street or wearing the wrong color. We to use to think similar to women were for procreating only. But we have gotten smarter and moved on passed that thankfully. If we can learn from those mistakes and become better as a culture. Then they can to. Interesting information, but it seems that despite all the blood, sweat, and money that was thrown into Iraq, little was accomplished to stamp out corruption or ensure governance that is at all competent. In fact the regime of corruption was tacitly used as matter of convenience while our forces occupied the country. The Iraqi military is also plagued by corruption, cronyism, and generally incompetent leadership. These are pretty much the same circumstances that were present when the government and military of South Vietnam rapidly collapsed, as well as Afghanistan today. Yup. You can buy allegiance for a song in that region of the world. Link to comment
Hooked on Huskers Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 What's the purpose for U.N. ???? HINT ......... worthless Never learned ...... Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, probably Iran and on and on and on. Please stay out. Let them kill each other off. Our problems was at home, not abroad. Link to comment
Husker_x Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 What someone posted on the last page. 30,000 equipped and trained soldiers in a defensive position stripped their uniforms and fled the scene against the onslaught of . . . 800 men. If I am Obama and this one isolated fact is indeed representative of Iraq's general posture towards its own defense, I would not send a single bomb, bullet, missile, or drone. Not one more American life or dollar should be squandered in this place. I think it's time to learn the lessons of history and I mean really learn them. The age of American omnipotence was always an illusion and is now proven to be a falsehood. Our military simply doesn't offer a solution to every problem in the world. If a decade of training and endless resources can't help you hold the second largest city in your country, it means you don't believe in your country. Why should we? Link to comment
Hooked on Huskers Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 What someone posted on the last page. 30,000 equipped and trained soldiers in a defensive position stripped their uniforms and fled the scene against the onslaught of . . . 800 men. If I am Obama and this one isolated fact is indeed representative of Iraq's general posture towards its own defense, I would not send a single bomb, bullet, missile, or drone. Not one more American life or dollar should be squandered in this place. I think it's time to learn the lessons of history and I mean really learn them. The age of American omnipotence was always an illusion and is now proven to be a falsehood. Our military simply doesn't offer a solution to every problem in the world. If a decade of training and endless resources can't help you hold the second largest city in your country, it means you don't believe in your country. Why should we? only 800 terrorist men? I didn't know that ! And your second paragraph completely agreed. Excellent post. I say close ALL overseas bases and our navy ships restricted in US territory waters including all carriers, battleships, cruisers ..... standby but ready to go. Plus leave NATO, SEATO and CENTO pacts. Link to comment
Moiraine Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 I say close ALL overseas bases lol. 1 Link to comment
Hooked on Huskers Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 I say close ALL overseas bases lol. I'm serious. No Russia military presence in overseas countries. Only a few small satellite countries....used to be CCCP. China too. Link to comment
Junior Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 It has everything to do with the Neanderthals inhabiting that particular patch of earth. Heathens, through and through. Let's see; they stone girls to death just for going to school. Check. They wipe their a#ses with their hands. Check. They sh#t all over a toilet instead of in it. Check. Women are for pro-creating and boys are for "fun." Check. Barbarians, the whole lot of them. I would not lose a single second of sleep if we turned the entire region into an ashtray. You know how they view homosexuality . . . right? Some of those might hit close to home in other religions as well. I do, but it sure as hell doesn't stop them. Ever heard of "boy love Thursday?" Dress them up and put makeup on them and everything. This is no joke, it is very real. Disgusting animals. It may very well bleed over into other religions but that is of no consequence to me. I practice my own faith and don't need organized religion to tell me how to do it. Yet, I digress... Sounds bad. Good thing nothing like that could happen in the US. http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/r/roman_catholic_church_sex_abuse_cases/index.html Link to comment
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