Putin Blinked

[carlfense]

Except of course for the tiny matter of getting exactly what he wanted. Unless the West maintains economic and diplomatic pressure on Russia until they return Crimea to the Ukraine, Putin's play was absolutely worth it.

He got something he wanted . . . that much I'll agree with.

 

Whether it's exactly what he wanted, all he wanted, or worth the cost paid are all very different questions.

[carlfense]

Everybody blinks you guys, this isn't a big deal IMO.

I don't.

 

I go through a lot of eye drops.

[LukeinNE]

 

Whether it's exactly what he wanted, all he wanted, or worth the cost paid are all very different questions.

 

 

I'll concede that, and suggest it's too early to tell for those questions.

[Creighton Duke]

 

In regards to you second point:

Better for whom? Ukraine in 50 years? Probably EU now? Maybe? Ukraine now? No, no , no[/size]

 

Ukraine in 50 years? Who knows? Absolutely impossible to say.

 

Ukraine now? If you're asking whether they are better off with Putin standing down I'd say yes. Yes they are.

 

The EU now? Eh. The EU is and was a pretty terrible idea.

 

To the first bolded point, I disagree. The sanctions that will be imposed (your 2 hryvnia a liter petrol is about to be more like 20), continued skirmishes, possible future annexation, possible future self-imposed annexation (thinking Transnistria), higher-cost EU goods (albeit, higher quality), and a possible exodus of much of the working class...I'm thinking no (for now).

 

I agree; EU is one of the dumber ideas of the last 25 years. Major pro of the deal: opens up influx of cheap labor from Ukraine. Major con of deal: gas prices go up (even more).

[Creighton Duke]

Also, let me point out that when I consider Putin's strategy on things, I try to take as much of a non-Western perspective as possible. Eastern minds just DON'T think the same as we do. It is important when labeling "winners" and "losers" and "blinkers" (Putin?) and "non-blinkers" (carlfense, self-described ) to keep this in mind.

[sd'sker]

Everybody blinks you guys, this isn't a big deal IMO.

you are so naive.

[Junior]

 

Everybody blinks you guys, this isn't a big deal IMO.

you are so naive.

 

 

[carlfense]

 

In recent weeks, there had been signs of growing concern among Kremlin moderates and the Russian business community that the proxy war in Ukraine was far too damaging to Russia’s economy and was developing into a potential threat to Russia’s longterm stability. This week, with new U.S. sanctions and the threat of Russian isolation emanating from Putin’s Lockerbie, the Russian stock market fell by over 8 percent.

 

Putin can seize on this tragedy to move toward rapid de-escalation in eastern Ukraine. He can urge the 15,000 insurgent fighters in Ukraine’s East—many of them Russians—to lay down their arms. And he can immediately stop the flow of tanks, missiles, and other weapons to the rebels.

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/118765/putins-lockerbie-why-russias-propaganda-machine-high-gear

[walksalone]

Not so sure I'm onboard with this guy and his "Putin blinked" theory, although it sounds good on paper.

 

Putin was in the KGB and later in charge of the FSB (another version of the KGB), which means he's a sneaky f*cking Russian. I'm sure there are other reasons for him doing this.

 

He attempted to poison Viktor Yuschenko, remember that guy?

[Creighton Duke]

 

 

In recent weeks, there had been signs of growing concern among Kremlin moderates and the Russian business community that the proxy war in Ukraine was far too damaging to Russia’s economy and was developing into a potential threat to Russia’s longterm stability. This week, with new U.S. sanctions and the threat of Russian isolation emanating from Putin’s Lockerbie, the Russian stock market fell by over 8 percent.

 

Putin can seize on this tragedy to move toward rapid de-escalation in eastern Ukraine. He can urge the 15,000 insurgent fighters in Ukraine’s East—many of them Russians—to lay down their arms. And he can immediately stop the flow of tanks, missiles, and other weapons to the rebels.

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/118765/putins-lockerbie-why-russias-propaganda-machine-high-gear

 

To be honest, it wouldn't surprise me if such a move was orchestrated with an expected crash in mind. Putin is in bed with all of the oligarchs that he hasn't ousted or banished. How many do you think shorted the market just in time for the crash?

[LukeinNE]

Unfortunately, this thread needs updating.

 

KAMENSK-SHAKHTINSKY, Russia — NATO and Ukraine said that a column of military vehicles crossed into Ukraine from Russia last night and that most of them had been destroyed by Ukrainian artillery fire. It was not clear whether Russian soldiers or rebel separatists were driving the vehicles.

 

Russia, for its part, is denying everything at this point.

[TGHusker]

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/why-vladimir-putin-referring-eastern-ukraine-new-russia-1463130

 

http://news.yahoo.com/putin-says-russia-ready-respond-aggression-123956691.html

 

Maybe Putin is winking instead of blinking

[carlfense]

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/why-vladimir-putin-referring-eastern-ukraine-new-russia-1463130

 

http://news.yahoo.com/putin-says-russia-ready-respond-aggression-123956691.html

 

Maybe Putin is winking instead of blinking

Putin has lost control of the situation. This won't end well for Russia.

[Micheal]

This sounds fun

 

Ukraine crisis: NATO to create 'high-readiness force,' secretary general says

 

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/01/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

[VectorVictor]

 

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/why-vladimir-putin-referring-eastern-ukraine-new-russia-1463130

 

http://news.yahoo.com/putin-says-russia-ready-respond-aggression-123956691.html

 

Maybe Putin is winking instead of blinking

Putin has lost control of the situation. This won't end well for Russia.

 

 

When Putin is the sanest man you have in a leadership position within your country, and he's not being listened to...I shudder to think who they are listening to.