Dylann Roof, South Carolina Church Shooting

[True2tRA]

 

He's been caught in north Carolina. Absolutely horrible. Being treated as a hate crime, I wonder if recent events for blacks vs cops is going to be this punks excuse..

 

His FB picture had some white supremacy flags on his jacket. He has been filled with hate his whole life.

 

Something happened that set him off. No idea, but 9 innocent people are dead now because of his hate.

.......and because he had easy access to a firearm.

 

Hate does not end 9 peoples lives.

[Saunders]

 

 

He's been caught in north Carolina. Absolutely horrible. Being treated as a hate crime, I wonder if recent events for blacks vs cops is going to be this punks excuse..

His FB picture had some white supremacy flags on his jacket. He has been filled with hate his whole life.

 

Something happened that set him off. No idea, but 9 innocent people are dead now because of his hate.

.......and because he had easy access to a firearm.

 

Hate does not end 9 peoples lives.

 

No, a hate filled person did.

[Hedley Lamarr]

 

 

He's been caught in north Carolina. Absolutely horrible. Being treated as a hate crime, I wonder if recent events for blacks vs cops is going to be this punks excuse..

 

His FB picture had some white supremacy flags on his jacket. He has been filled with hate his whole life.

 

Something happened that set him off. No idea, but 9 innocent people are dead now because of his hate.

.......and because he had easy access to a firearm.

 

Hate does not end 9 peoples lives.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people

[True2tRA]

No. It's simple really. Try not to overcomplicate things. It's not complicated.

 

Guns don't kill people. People don't kill people. Hate-filled people with murderous intentions kill people with guns.

 

Not all guns are used for the wrong purpose. Not all people have bad intentions.

 

We seem to just want to lay a blanket over the gun control conversation as if it's black and white. Nobody has said all or none.

 

Guns make things easy for a weak man with a weak mind to take a life. Even take a life of someone with a stronger body and mind. There's no justice in that.

 

An extensive background check, some simple research into this mans daily life, beliefs, internet history, or simple discussions with people he knew, would have made it very clear that a gun did not belong in this man's possession.

 

So when you say something like "guns don't kill people, people kill people", it makes you sound ignorant. it makes you sound as if you're saying that these extensive background checks would not be worth it? Why not? We act as if this is an un-preventable issue. Will you prevent everything? No. In what aspect of life do we prevent everything though? We put an age limit on drinking. We put an age limit on driving. We enforce seat-belt laws, helmet laws, etc. So with the facts known about the dangers of guns, the simplicity of pulling a trigger and ending a life, why is it still so easy to access a weapon in this country?

 

It needs to be harder. Maybe this guy would've been one that didn't slip through the cracks and these 9 people would've attended church today.

[Saunders]

No. It's simple really. Try not to overcomplicate things. It's not complicated.

 

Guns don't kill people. People don't kill people. Hate-filled people with murderous intentions kill people with guns.

 

Not all guns are used for the wrong purpose. Not all people have bad intentions.

 

We seem to just want to lay a blanket over the gun control conversation as if it's black and white. Nobody has said all or none.

 

Guns make things easy for a weak man with a weak mind to take a life. Even take a life of someone with a stronger body and mind. There's no justice in that.

 

An extensive background check, some simple research into this mans daily life, beliefs, internet history, or simple discussions with people he knew, would have made it very clear that a gun did not belong in this man's possession.

 

So when you say something like "guns don't kill people, people kill people", it makes you sound ignorant. it makes you sound as if you're saying that these extensive background checks would not be worth it? Why not? We act as if this is an un-preventable issue. Will you prevent everything? No. In what aspect of life do we prevent everything though? We put an age limit on drinking. We put an age limit on driving. We enforce seat-belt laws, helmet laws, etc. So with the facts known about the dangers of guns, the simplicity of pulling a trigger and ending a life, why is it still so easy to access a weapon in this country?

 

It needs to be harder. Maybe this guy would've been one that didn't slip through the cracks and these 9 people would've attended church today.

FYI, a background check wouldn't have done anything because he didn't buy the gun. It was given to him.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3129887/Dylann-Roof-21-suspected-murdering-nine-race-hate-church-crime-got-gun-birthday-arrested-twice-year-drug-trespassing-charges.html

 

But please, continue calling people ignorant.

 

As someone who owns multiple firearms, and has a decent amount of training to go along with a CC license, I think there's a few tweaks that could be made to the current laws, but there is no slam dunk solution. The political posturing over this even by certain politcal candidates is pathetic and downright despicable though.

[True2tRA]

As someone who owns multiple firearms, and has a decent amount of training to go along with a CC license, I think there's a few tweaks that could be made to the current laws, but there is no slam dunk solution. The political posturing over this even by certain politcal candidates is pathetic and downright despicable though.

I'm not anti-gun. I'm anti-ignorance. I love guns as does just about everybody I know.

 

There's no slam dunk solution to any issue. There is somebody who will be hurt, offended, or slip through the cracks of just about every single law you could apply to any single situation in the history of man. I don't think anybody expects a slam dunk. It's after a terrorist act like this, can you look in the mirror and say "we did everything we could do to prevent this".

 

I don't know that as a country, we can say that.

 

Politicians using this incident to position themselves is not surprising. This country is represented by a majority of very ugly and insensitive human beings.

[Landlord]

 

It's after a terrorist act like this, can you look in the mirror and say "we did everything we could do to prevent this".

 

I don't know that as a country, we can say that.

 

 

 

 

Great, great insight. Take any political element out of it - what Obama said is right on the money. We have to come to terms with the fact that this sh#t is not happening like this or with this kind of frequency in other developed parts of the world.

[Enhance]

We have serious socio-economic problems that feed our gun culture and violent behavior as a nation. I'm glad people are raising the point that it doesn't matter, to some degree, how stringent you make gun laws - if someone wants a gun, they're going to get a gun through any channel possible. That doesn't mean ban guns or take away laws, it just means we have to make sure we're doing everything in our power to stop these things from happening. T2tRA is right - as a country, I don't think we are doing as much as we can.

 

We need to take more responsibility as people and as a country to fight racism, bullying, drug use and anything else that fuels horrendous acts like these. It's my belief that the vast majority of killers weren't born killers - they're products of their environment, parents and influences. Everybody needs to take more responsibility for this.

[Scratchtown]

You can't compare America to other developed countries. The US is a unique country. There is a reason people flock to it, and leave their home countries, and have for many many years.

Here is a question I pose.

How many other countries around the world are easily influenced/manipulated by media/news/commercialized society....?

Mental Health? What's the average joe/jane to think when he/she see's that men/women are attracted to certain looks, smells, etc...Our kids are growing up in a gross society that tells them to conform to that society or be left behind.

Anywho....want an answer? Ask the Swiss. (from 2012)

http://world.time.com/2012/12/20/the-swiss-difference-a-gun-culture-that-works/

[Stumpy1]

I was watching one reporter on a national network do a Q&A with an anchor, and the anchor asked him to describe the emotions and the energy surrounding Charleston right now.

 

I'm paraphrasing, but the reporter said the best way to describe the situation is by looking at the flags in the state. He said the American flag is at half staff, the flag of the great state of South Carolina is at half staff, yet the flag of the Confederacy is being flown at full mast.

 

There's no denying the racial problems in our country have been masked and mocked by those who wish to ignore they still exist, especially in places like the South. What happened isn't tragic - it's downright abominable. My heart goes out to these victims and their families - I can't even imagine what they're going through, but I've seen such bravery by some of the families to forgive this guy. I don't know if I'd have it in me. During times like this, as deplorable as his actions are, it's also truly uplifting to see the human spirit come through in the form of forgiveness.

 

I wish there was an easy fix so things like this wouldn't happen. I wish we could forget this guy exists - only focus on the victims and focus on trying to repair some of the problems in our country. We have a mass murder and flat out murder problem in America. Mental health issues is the easy way out, the scapegoat. This goes far beyond mental health problems.

This right here tells me that Charleston is filled with hypocrites.

[Landlord]

You can't compare America to other developed countries. The US is a unique country. There is a reason people flock to it, and leave their home countries, and have for many many years.

 

 

 

This is a comparison, isn't it? There's no such thing as unique without the comparison to non-unique.

 

That's the entire point of comparing. Things don't have to be the same. I can compare an apple and an orange, note that the apple has a different texture, different color, smell, taste, etc. than the orange does.

 

That's why we can look at America, look at what is different by comparing, and take a sobering look in the mirror and try to figure out, first of all, what makes us different in the sense that we keep having these ugly events unfolding, and then if the things that lead to horrendous stuff like this, that make America ~unique~, are things that should be held onto?

[Scratchtown]

 

You can't compare America to other developed countries. The US is a unique country. There is a reason people flock to it, and leave their home countries, and have for many many years.

 

 

 

This is a comparison, isn't it? There's no such thing as unique without the comparison to non-unique.

 

That's the entire point of comparing. Things don't have to be the same. I can compare an apple and an orange, note that the apple has a different texture, different color, smell, taste, etc. than the orange does.

 

That's why we can look at America, look at what is different by comparing, and take a sobering look in the mirror and try to figure out, first of all, what makes us different in the sense that we keep having these ugly events unfolding, and then if the things that lead to horrendous stuff like this, that make America ~unique~, are things that should be held onto?

 

You really are nit picky aren't you.

[zoogs]

I thought that was a good point: America being different from other countries provides context, but shouldn't throw comparisons out the window.

 

Anywho....want an answer? Ask the Swiss. (from 2012)

Switzerland is a very unique country too. There's similarity in that they also don't appear likely to give up their firearms, but their culture and history with it is different from that of the United States.

 

And so is their violent crime rate: their firearms killing rate is ten times less.

 

Their one major recent incident resulted in a change in policy very specific to the incident that happened, and kicked off a national debate that resulted in a wider referendum vote, which was defeated (but hardly unanimously -- 56% voted against). It seems logical that if the Swiss faced firearms killing issues with the same volume as the United States, there would be more and more calls for change. It seems insane that the very debate itself is dismissed by some in the U.S. as not one we should be having in the face of these events.

 

That said, would the sensibly moderate proposals about equipment and access restrictions have stopped some of these particular killings? Probably not. Do we just write off that 5 annual firearm deaths per 100,000 (this translates to 15,000 annual firearm deaths per 300 million; the most recent CDC figures were 32,251 people in 2011 for firearms and 33,561 for car crashes.) as an unavoidable fact of life in this country? If not, is there anything that can prevent all these people from dying other than a simple, wide-scale disarmament in number of *all* privately owned firearms?

 

* Worth mentioning, the U.S. is in the middle of the pack in car death fatalities. Maybe that makes the number more acceptable (as well as the largely accidental nature of the figure) but I'm sure there are serious, uncontroversial efforts at getting or keeping that figure down via regulation, policy changes, attitude changes, etc. It's still a figure close to 3 times as high as the United Kingdom, Israel, Switzerland, Japan, and others.

[Scratchtown]

I thought that was a good point: America being different from other countries provides context, but shouldn't throw comparisons out the window.

 

Anywho....want an answer? Ask the Swiss. (from 2012)

Switzerland is a very unique country too. There's similarity in that they also don't appear likely to give up their firearms, but their culture and history with it is different from that of the United States.

 

And so is their violent crime rate: their firearms killing rate is ten times less.

 

Their one major recent incident resulted in a change in policy very specific to the incident that happened, and kicked off a national debate that resulted in a wider referendum vote, which was defeated (but hardly unanimously -- 56% voted against). It seems logical that if the Swiss faced firearms killing issues with the same volume as the United States, there would be more and more calls for change. It seems insane that the very debate itself is dismissed by some in the U.S. as not one we should be having in the face of these events.

 

That said, would the sensibly moderate proposals about equipment and access restrictions have stopped some of these particular killings? Probably not. Do we just write off that 5 annual firearm deaths per 100,000 (this translates to 15,000 annual firearm deaths per 300 million; the most recent CDC figures were 32,251 people in 2011 for firearms and 33,561 for car crashes.) as an unavoidable fact of life in this country? If not, is there anything that can prevent all these people from dying other than a simple, wide-scale disarmament in number of *all* privately owned firearms?

 

* Worth mentioning, the U.S. is in the middle of the pack in car death fatalities. Maybe that makes the number more acceptable (as well as the largely accidental nature of the figure) but I'm sure there are serious, uncontroversial efforts at getting or keeping that figure down via regulation, policy changes, attitude changes, etc. It's still a figure close to 3 times as high as the United Kingdom, Israel, Switzerland, Japan, and others.

 

It's hard for me to get on board with a disarmament of the American public. Not saying you support this, but, it's just the concept of it even being a possibility blows my mind.

 

I have been thinking about this whole concept of the similarity of people that go on these rampages and I don't know if it can be described or answered with what I'm about to say/ask, however, if there was a better mindset of people in this country when it comes to social acceptability, would these things even happen?

 

I think that's the bigger issue than the existence of guns. I think that's pretty obvious. The farther you dig into the why? It just becomes more muddied to me. Or is it as simple as saying someone was "bullied" as a kid?

 

I feel like I was all over the place and probably don't make sense but that's essentially where my head is at when thinking about this stuff. A jumbled mess.

[Landlord]

Who can really say what actually causes this? There's obviously no simple answer, and there's definitely no single answer. What were the nuanced details of this kid's upbringing? If we got to be a fly on the wall going through his growth as a human, is there any way that we can look at the circumstances and think, "Oh. Yeah. I can totally see how he became a hateful terrorist serial murderer"?

 

Watching his face as the families of the victims forgave him and called him to turn to God tells me there is still a human being somewhere in there. What can make a person go that wrong is definitely a bigger issue, but it's also an issue that might be impossible to fix or make great progress towards; no matter how far we go as a country, awful people will still exist and raise their children to be even worse. Gun reform is more of a bandaid, but it can potentially be a very effective one that's actually possible.