Confederate flags coming down, and Civil War introspective

[The Dude]

I can't help but wonder if many Native Americans have similar feelings when they see the American flag.

[Creighton Duke]

I can't help but wonder if many Native Americans have similar feelings when they see the American flag.

This is an excellent point and something that I've been thinking about as well (not specifically Native Americans). We've started down the slippery slope and now, all bets are off.

[BigRedBuster]

You're right, it is hypocrisy. That with the right administrators in place, knee jerk, immediate changes (take down flags, take away guns) can be implemented as the result of a single (or a few in close proximity), albeit tragic, event. Be careful when you're applauding this kind of activity. The precedent is being set for things to just as easily go in the other direction depending on which of the ruling elite happens to be calling the shots at the time.

 

I have absolutely no problem with something like this being asked to be taken down. To many Americans, it is a symbol of people who were supporting the slavery/rape/torture of their people.

 

Now, everyone has the right to ask for something. The people in charge have the right to make that decision. To my knowledge, I haven't heard of anyone asking for the flag to be outlawed and if you fly it, you will be fined or imprisoned. In the wake of an extremely horrible racist act in which the offender proudly waved this flag in support of his own racist opinions, I have no problem with the flag being taken down.

 

If someone were to walk through the a jewish neighborhood waving a Nazi flag, I have absolutely no problem with people asking him to stop. Now, he has the freedom and right to do it. But, it is offensive (and rightly so) to many people to proudly wave that flag.

 

The confederate flag (no matter what the history revisionists want us to believe) WAS flown on the battle field by people fighting for the right to still imprison/rape/torture/kill slaves in any fashion they see fit simply because they were white and the slaves were black. The documents drawn up by this exact same state when declaring they were seceding from the union declares that it was about keeping their right to slaves.

 

Now....people want us to believe this is supposed to be a symbol of individualism and freedom of some sick way.

 

Is the Nazi flag simply a symbol of Germans being proud of their country and their patriotism towards that country? Jews are just over emotional saps.

[BigRedBuster]

I can't help but wonder if many Native Americans have similar feelings when they see the American flag.

That's a very good question. I happen to be reading right now a book about Red Cloud and the indian wars.

 

I guess I would answer that as that I would understand if the indians have ill feelings towards this flag.

[Bigred_inSD]

Some Native's don't and some do, basically the same as how some African American's view the confederate flag.

 

I have a female friend who is Native and she refuses to stand for the National anthem because of what this country did to her ancestors,

 

meanwhile i have other Native friends who absolutely love the U.S. and have defended our flag in wars, and if you speak ill of our country they are the last person you would want to do it in front of.

[darkhorse85]

TNN is on the ball already.

 

[huKSer]

TNN is on the ball already.

 

Seriously?

[huKSer]

 

 

If someone were to walk through the a jewish neighborhood waving a Nazi flag, I have absolutely no problem with people asking him to stop. Now, he has the freedom and right to do it. But, it is offensive (and rightly so) to many people to proudly wave that flag.

 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Party_of_America_v._Village_of_Skokie

[darkhorse85]

 

TNN is on the ball already.

 

Seriously?

 

 

No. It was a sad attempt at humor.

[zoogs]

Yes, interesting thoughts from Benjamin Watson. I agree that South Carolina's decision should not come without criticism:

 

This afternoon, in announcing her support for removing the Confederate flag from the capitol grounds, South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley asserted that killer Dylann Roof had “a sick and twisted view of the flag” which did not reflect “the people in our state who respect and in many ways revere it.” If the governor meant that very few of the flag’s supporters believe in mass murder, she is surely right. But on the question of whose view of the Confederate Flag is more twisted, she is almost certainly wrong.

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/what-this-cruel-war-was-over/396482/

This is in definite contrast to Paul Thurmond's unequivocal call for the flag's removal, in which he termed it "a symbol of racism and bigotry". (Was the North, despite the nascent abolitionist movement, also as racist as the times? Possibly. But only one side here was fighting to preserve slavery and white supremacy.)

 

However, it's a good start. And it had to come from somewhere. I would not have supported the federal government coming in and banning the symbol -- or at least, it is better that the states choose to do this on their own. The choice was to either do so, or to continue flying it on their capitol grounds. Only with this move

 

As for not applauding it, why? Of course such decisions are within the purview of legislators and governors. There is a revisionist history view of the flag and its meaning; as noted, it has been repurposed over time. That won't change overnight -- or apparently, over 150 years -- but only with moves such as this can we gradually go back to understanding it for what it was. I can understand honoring the dead, but it is beyond time to lay their cause to rest.

[Landlord]

Well that article was a really ugly and sobering look back zoogs.

[Landlord]

 

 

We do not think that whites should be slaves either by law or necessity. Our slaves are black, of another and inferior race. The status in which we have placed them is an elevation. They are elevated from the condition in which God first created them, by being made our slaves. None of that race on the whole face of the globe can be compared with the slaves of the South. They are happy, content, unaspiring, and utterly incapable, from intellectual weakness, ever to give us any trouble by their aspirations. Yours are white, of your own race; you are brothers of one blood. They are your equals in natural endowment of intellect, and they feel galled by their degradation.

 

 

Yikes.

[Creighton Duke]

 

You're right, it is hypocrisy. That with the right administrators in place, knee jerk, immediate changes (take down flags, take away guns) can be implemented as the result of a single (or a few in close proximity), albeit tragic, event. Be careful when you're applauding this kind of activity. The precedent is being set for things to just as easily go in the other direction depending on which of the ruling elite happens to be calling the shots at the time.

 

I have absolutely no problem with something like this being asked to be taken down. To many Americans, it is a symbol of people who were supporting the slavery/rape/torture of their people.

 

Now, everyone has the right to ask for something. The people in charge have the right to make that decision. To my knowledge, I haven't heard of anyone asking for the flag to be outlawed and if you fly it, you will be fined or imprisoned. In the wake of an extremely horrible racist act in which the offender proudly waved this flag in support of his own racist opinions, I have no problem with the flag being taken down.

 

If someone were to walk through the a jewish neighborhood waving a Nazi flag, I have absolutely no problem with people asking him to stop. Now, he has the freedom and right to do it. But, it is offensive (and rightly so) to many people to proudly wave that flag.

 

The confederate flag (no matter what the history revisionists want us to believe) WAS flown on the battle field by people fighting for the right to still imprison/rape/torture/kill slaves in any fashion they see fit simply because they were white and the slaves were black. The documents drawn up by this exact same state when declaring they were seceding from the union declares that it was about keeping their right to slaves.

 

Now....people want us to believe this is supposed to be a symbol of individualism and freedom of some sick way.

 

Is the Nazi flag simply a symbol of Germans being proud of their country and their patriotism towards that country? Jews are just over emotional saps.

 

I think that it is very important to distinguish between some things here. Admittedly, I'm not a fan of the Battle Flag and I don't own a gun. I'm also not opposed to legislative processes and general elections/voting dictating how we handle these items and issues.

 

My problem is that those in power are beginning to use single events (or events in close proximity to one another) to make knee jerk, immediate decisions on how to handle these kinds of issues. This not only tarnishes appropriate political processes, but it sets a VERY dangerous precedent.

 

There are a lot of guys who have no education, no skills, no future....no hope; what is to stop the ruling elite from reaching out to these guys to help them to do their bidding before ISIS does?

[zoogs]

What's the "appropriate political process" here?

 

And to your last point -- what?

[Creighton Duke]

I feel like the issue could come up to a vote in the next state congressional session. If not, citizens could attempt a state referendum to push the envelope.

 

When the ruling elite know that a single event can lead to the results that they want, I don't doubt that there will be some who will do what they can to "manufacture" such events...mainly with the disposal of people who modern society has classified as the "dregs".