Moiraine Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 I wish Bernie was younger and more attractive. I like him and I don't like Hillary but I'm concerned about his ability to win the election. I hear this a lot, mostly from the Clinton camp, but I don't understand how the argument actually works. He polls better against the Republican candidates than Hilary does. If he went up against Trump, he'd completely decimate the guy. I hope that's the case. But it would be even more likely if he was good looking. He's not up by enough in head to head polls for my tastes and who knows what will happen between now and November. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-5565.html Link to comment
TGHusker Posted January 27, 2016 Author Share Posted January 27, 2016 Net Net guys - are you ready for the good ole USA to become a socialistic nation? As Reagan use to say, the Gov't that can give it all can take it all away. If you think we are dumping enormous debt on our children and grandkids now - just wait until Bernie does his thing. That is the totally irresponsible. As much as I like his honesty, I dislike the possible path he'd take this country on. He has to pay for that $19 Trillion in spending somehow. Link to comment
Danny Bateman Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 TGH, that DeLay guy is crooked as hell. One glance at his Wikipedia page told me I could dismiss him as a source. He was involved with Abramoff big time and seems to have taken under the table stuff on other occasions as well. Given that he's so slimy and the only one saying that about the FBI, I could honestly see it as a lame attempt to try to slander the Hillary. Landlord, an argument against the Samders v. Pubs polling I heard recently is that it doesn't matter too much right now. National polls are predictive of very little at this point, and Sanders numbers don't take into account the attack ads the Pubs would draw up to try to hurt Bernie. I like his platform, but unfortunately he is susceptible to attack on a variety of things. Moiraine has a point on one of them- to a skeptic, Bernie can come off as a crotchety old man up there ranting. I thought I had heard at one point the $19 trillion number wasn't accurate. But I couldn't find anything to suggest otherwise. Anyone know? Landlord? Link to comment
cornographic Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Net Net guys - are you ready for the good ole USA to become a socialistic nation? As Reagan use to say, the Gov't that can give it all can take it all away. If you think we are dumping enormous debt on our children and grandkids now - just wait until Bernie does his thing. That is the totally irresponsible. As much as I like his honesty, I dislike the possible path he'd take this country on. He has to pay for that $19 Trillion in spending somehow. Yeah socialism sucks--just ask the Pentagon. The troops, everybody loves themselves some troops--the socialistically paid troops. Or the police force, or the fire dpt, or the public schools, or public utilities, or the post office, or the grandma getting her SS check so she doesn't have to eat cat food. Just ask Goldman Sachs'/Chase Bank, Wells Fargo, et al, bailed out asses how they feel about socialism, or GM, or Boeing whois heavily subsidized and sells their planes to the gov't whenever nobody else is buying. All insurance is a form of socialism. How about your pro sports unions, yeah, socialistic. Ask Israel how they feel about Mur'can socialism to the tune of~3 billion per year. Roads, how could I forget the roads? Shall I go on? Bernie is simply going after the filthy rich to getting back to paying something resembling their fair share in the society, but not even near as much as that commie socialist Republican Eisenhower did back in the day when he had them at a marginal tax rate of ~90%. Lifting the $250k cap on income for SS payroll tax, the Tobin tax for Wall St speculation, not exactly rad ideas. The rich have had their way for the last several decades, Bernie just wants to restore some semblance of socioeconomic balance/sanity. Link to comment
BIGREDIOWAN Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Net Net guys - are you ready for the good ole USA to become a socialistic nation? As Reagan use to say, the Gov't that can give it all can take it all away. If you think we are dumping enormous debt on our children and grandkids now - just wait until Bernie does his thing. That is the totally irresponsible. As much as I like his honesty, I dislike the possible path he'd take this country on. He has to pay for that $19 Trillion in spending somehow. Yeah socialism sucks--just ask the Pentagon. The troops, everybody loves themselves some troops--the socialistically paid troops. Or the police force, or the fire dpt, or the public schools, or public utilities, or the post office, or the grandma getting her SS check so she doesn't have to eat cat food. Just ask Goldman Sachs'/Chase Bank, Wells Fargo, et al, bailed out asses how they feel about socialism, or GM, or Boeing whois heavily subsidized and sells their planes to the gov't whenever nobody else is buying. All insurance is a form of socialism. How about your pro sports unions, yeah, socialistic. Ask Israel how they feel about Mur'can socialism to the tune of~3 billion per year. Roads, how could I forget the roads? Shall I go on? Bernie is simply going after the filthy rich to getting back to paying something resembling their fair share in the society, but not even near as much as that commie socialist Republican Eisenhower did back in the day when he had them at a marginal tax rate of ~90%. Lifting the $250k cap on income for SS payroll tax, the Tobin tax for Wall St speculation, not exactly rad ideas. The rich have had their way for the last several decades, Bernie just wants to restore some semblance of socioeconomic balance/sanity. He's not going to be able to raise taxes on only the wealthy. Everyone's taxes will be raised on some level. I understand the wealthy will get hit pretty good based on his plans, but I'm not betting on my taxes raising single digits. His ideas just seem too far fetched for me to buy into the hype. http://www.vox.com/2016/1/22/10814798/bernie-sanders-tax-rates I just seen this article this morning as well just generally talking about the elections. I agree, it's a mess.... https://www.yahoo.com/politics/so-much-for-the-political-1352516777156662.html Link to comment
cornographic Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Net Net guys - are you ready for the good ole USA to become a socialistic nation? As Reagan use to say, the Gov't that can give it all can take it all away. If you think we are dumping enormous debt on our children and grandkids now - just wait until Bernie does his thing. That is the totally irresponsible. As much as I like his honesty, I dislike the possible path he'd take this country on. He has to pay for that $19 Trillion in spending somehow. Yeah socialism sucks--just ask the Pentagon. The troops, everybody loves themselves some troops--the socialistically paid troops. Or the police force, or the fire dpt, or the public schools, or public utilities, or the post office, or the grandma getting her SS check so she doesn't have to eat cat food. Just ask Goldman Sachs'/Chase Bank, Wells Fargo, et al, bailed out asses how they feel about socialism, or GM, or Boeing whois heavily subsidized and sells their planes to the gov't whenever nobody else is buying. All insurance is a form of socialism. How about your pro sports unions, yeah, socialistic. Ask Israel how they feel about Mur'can socialism to the tune of~3 billion per year. Roads, how could I forget the roads? Shall I go on? Bernie is simply going after the filthy rich to getting back to paying something resembling their fair share in the society, but not even near as much as that commie socialist Republican Eisenhower did back in the day when he had them at a marginal tax rate of ~90%. Lifting the $250k cap on income for SS payroll tax, the Tobin tax for Wall St speculation, not exactly rad ideas. The rich have had their way for the last several decades, Bernie just wants to restore some semblance of socioeconomic balance/sanity. He's not going to be able to raise taxes on only the wealthy. Everyone's taxes will be raised on some level. I understand the wealthy will get hit pretty good based on his plans, but I'm not betting on my taxes raising single digits. His ideas just seem too far fetched for me to buy into the hype. http://www.vox.com/2016/1/22/10814798/bernie-sanders-tax-rates I just seen this article this morning as well just generally talking about the elections. I agree, it's a mess.... https://www.yahoo.com/politics/so-much-for-the-political-1352516777156662.html First of all, my above reply was a response to those who somehow don't realize that there are plenty of socialistic practices that pervade American society already, corporate and military/Pentagon social welfare being the major ones. Secondly, I'm not sure I trust the Vox chart's numbers--especially the alleged payroll tax increases he states which don't appear to be an accurate representation of Bernie's plans. But even so, if the Vox guy is correct with the income tax, it's only ~2% increase on anyone making up to ~250K/year. The slight income tax increases are to cover the single payer health plan and paid leave program only, from what I understand. The idea is, that you would have a slight income tax increase but would not have a private insurance policy and that expense, so on the balance, you would be saving greatly for health care. The only tax I don't agree with--for any citizen--is the carbon tax, which I think is a total scam, though it appears that Bernie would only be applying that to the fossil fuel producing industries(not sure on that one). Anyway, better to look at Bernie's site for his plans: https://berniesanders.com/issues/how-bernie-pays-for-his-proposals/ Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 LOL....you are actually using the military as a good example of why socialism is great???Pardon me if I don't want to live in a military type situation. That example is funny. Link to comment
Moiraine Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Net Net guys - are you ready for the good ole USA to become a socialistic nation? As Reagan use to say, the Gov't that can give it all can take it all away. If you think we are dumping enormous debt on our children and grandkids now - just wait until Bernie does his thing. That is the totally irresponsible. As much as I like his honesty, I dislike the possible path he'd take this country on. He has to pay for that $19 Trillion in spending somehow. Yeah socialism sucks--just ask the Pentagon. The troops, everybody loves themselves some troops--the socialistically paid troops. Or the police force, or the fire dpt, or the public schools, or public utilities, or the post office, or the grandma getting her SS check so she doesn't have to eat cat food. Just ask Goldman Sachs'/Chase Bank, Wells Fargo, et al, bailed out asses how they feel about socialism, or GM, or Boeing whois heavily subsidized and sells their planes to the gov't whenever nobody else is buying. All insurance is a form of socialism. How about your pro sports unions, yeah, socialistic. Ask Israel how they feel about Mur'can socialism to the tune of~3 billion per year. Roads, how could I forget the roads? Shall I go on? Bernie is simply going after the filthy rich to getting back to paying something resembling their fair share in the society, but not even near as much as that commie socialist Republican Eisenhower did back in the day when he had them at a marginal tax rate of ~90%. Lifting the $250k cap on income for SS payroll tax, the Tobin tax for Wall St speculation, not exactly rad ideas. The rich have had their way for the last several decades, Bernie just wants to restore some semblance of socioeconomic balance/sanity. He's not going to be able to raise taxes on only the wealthy. Everyone's taxes will be raised on some level. I understand the wealthy will get hit pretty good based on his plans, but I'm not betting on my taxes raising single digits. His ideas just seem too far fetched for me to buy into the hype. http://www.vox.com/2016/1/22/10814798/bernie-sanders-tax-rates I just seen this article this morning as well just generally talking about the elections. I agree, it's a mess.... https://www.yahoo.com/politics/so-much-for-the-political-1352516777156662.html The only thing that seems far fetched about them to me is his ability to pass any of it into law. Link to comment
cornographic Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Net Net guys - are you ready for the good ole USA to become a socialistic nation? As Reagan use to say, the Gov't that can give it all can take it all away. If you think we are dumping enormous debt on our children and grandkids now - just wait until Bernie does his thing. That is the totally irresponsible. As much as I like his honesty, I dislike the possible path he'd take this country on. He has to pay for that $19 Trillion in spending somehow. Yeah socialism sucks--just ask the Pentagon. The troops, everybody loves themselves some troops--the socialistically paid troops. Or the police force, or the fire dpt, or the public schools, or public utilities, or the post office, or the grandma getting her SS check so she doesn't have to eat cat food. Just ask Goldman Sachs'/Chase Bank, Wells Fargo, et al, bailed out asses how they feel about socialism, or GM, or Boeing whois heavily subsidized and sells their planes to the gov't whenever nobody else is buying. All insurance is a form of socialism. How about your pro sports unions, yeah, socialistic. Ask Israel how they feel about Mur'can socialism to the tune of~3 billion per year. Roads, how could I forget the roads? Shall I go on? Bernie is simply going after the filthy rich to getting back to paying something resembling their fair share in the society, but not even near as much as that commie socialist Republican Eisenhower did back in the day when he had them at a marginal tax rate of ~90%. Lifting the $250k cap on income for SS payroll tax, the Tobin tax for Wall St speculation, not exactly rad ideas. The rich have had their way for the last several decades, Bernie just wants to restore some semblance of socioeconomic balance/sanity. He's not going to be able to raise taxes on only the wealthy. Everyone's taxes will be raised on some level. I understand the wealthy will get hit pretty good based on his plans, but I'm not betting on my taxes raising single digits. His ideas just seem too far fetched for me to buy into the hype. http://www.vox.com/2016/1/22/10814798/bernie-sanders-tax-rates I just seen this article this morning as well just generally talking about the elections. I agree, it's a mess.... https://www.yahoo.com/politics/so-much-for-the-political-1352516777156662.html The only thing that seems far fetched about them to me is his ability to pass any of it into law. That's where The People come in. Massive politcal pressure by The People on their Reps is that it's going to take to, hopefully, over time, get them out of the hands of the corporate lobbyists and back working for The People again. Citizen's United has to be ditched as well, of course. Link to comment
cornographic Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 LOL....you are actually using the military as a good example of why socialism is great??? Pardon me if I don't want to live in a military type situation. That example is funny. Uh, the military/industrail complex? You are already living in it, last time I checked. But I suggest you revisit your reading comp skills, I never said it's "great". I used the military and Pentagon as an example of socialism in America because they are funded by the Public tax $, that's a form of democratic socialism, right, they are not private institutions, you have to go to Blackwater/Xe/Academi for private warfare. I never said that socialiszed warfare is "great", in fact, I am anti war, I just said it's an example. Nice try, though. BTW, how's your boy Carson doing these days? Ben Carson Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 LOL....you are actually using the military as a good example of why socialism is great??? Pardon me if I don't want to live in a military type situation. That example is funny. Uh, the military/industrail complex? You are already living in it, last time I checked. But I suggest you revisit your reading comp skills, I never said it's "great". I used the military and Pentagon as an example of socialism in America because they are funded by the Public tax $, that's a form of democratic socialism, right, they are not private institutions, you have to go to Blackwater/Xe/Academi for private warfare. I never said that socialiszed warfare is "great", in fact, I am anti war, I just said it's an example. Nice try, though. BTW, how's your boy Carson doing these days? Ben Carson You're posts just took a really weird angle. The military and the Pentagon ARE GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS...of COURSE they are going to be funded by tax payer dollars. You are making absolutely no sense......like usual. Link to comment
cornographic Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 LOL....you are actually using the military as a good example of why socialism is great??? Pardon me if I don't want to live in a military type situation. That example is funny. Uh, the military/industrail complex? You are already living in it, last time I checked. But I suggest you revisit your reading comp skills, I never said it's "great". I used the military and Pentagon as an example of socialism in America because they are funded by the Public tax $, that's a form of democratic socialism, right, they are not private institutions, you have to go to Blackwater/Xe/Academi for private warfare. I never said that socialiszed warfare is "great", in fact, I am anti war, I just said it's an example. Nice try, though. BTW, how's your boy Carson doing these days? Ben Carson You're posts just took a really weird angle. The military and the Pentagon ARE GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS...of COURSE they are going to be funded by tax payer dollars. You are making absolutely no sense......like usual. Anything paid for by the the gov't--i.e., The People's tax $--is a form of socialism, democratic socialism, Keynesian economics 101--that is factual. I assume you went to UNL, well, UNL is funded by the State, it is a State school,it is NOT a private school, it is funded socialistically, democratically, whatever. The fact that you don't comprehend these things isn't my problem, it just means you don't comprehend the reality of these things. democratic socialism, as Bernie explains it isn’t that scary and in fact it already exists all around us. For people in the military this fact is truer than in any other organization in America. Actually, as a member of the military, your very existence hinges on socialism. http://firebrandleft.com/us-military-socialist-organization-america/ Link to comment
TGHusker Posted January 28, 2016 Author Share Posted January 28, 2016 Net Net guys - are you ready for the good ole USA to become a socialistic nation? As Reagan use to say, the Gov't that can give it all can take it all away. If you think we are dumping enormous debt on our children and grandkids now - just wait until Bernie does his thing. That is the totally irresponsible. As much as I like his honesty, I dislike the possible path he'd take this country on. He has to pay for that $19 Trillion in spending somehow. Yeah socialism sucks--just ask the Pentagon. The troops, everybody loves themselves some troops--the socialistically paid troops. Or the police force, or the fire dpt, or the public schools, or public utilities, or the post office, or the grandma getting her SS check so she doesn't have to eat cat food. Just ask Goldman Sachs'/Chase Bank, Wells Fargo, et al, bailed out asses how they feel about socialism, or GM, or Boeing whois heavily subsidized and sells their planes to the gov't whenever nobody else is buying. All insurance is a form of socialism. How about your pro sports unions, yeah, socialistic. Ask Israel how they feel about Mur'can socialism to the tune of~3 billion per year. Roads, how could I forget the roads? Shall I go on? Bernie is simply going after the filthy rich to getting back to paying something resembling their fair share in the society, but not even near as much as that commie socialist Republican Eisenhower did back in the day when he had them at a marginal tax rate of ~90%. Lifting the $250k cap on income for SS payroll tax, the Tobin tax for Wall St speculation, not exactly rad ideas. The rich have had their way for the last several decades, Bernie just wants to restore some semblance of socioeconomic balance/sanity. He's not going to be able to raise taxes on only the wealthy. Everyone's taxes will be raised on some level. I understand the wealthy will get hit pretty good based on his plans, but I'm not betting on my taxes raising single digits. His ideas just seem too far fetched for me to buy into the hype. http://www.vox.com/2016/1/22/10814798/bernie-sanders-tax-rates I just seen this article this morning as well just generally talking about the elections. I agree, it's a mess.... https://www.yahoo.com/politics/so-much-for-the-political-1352516777156662.html First of all, my above reply was a response to those who somehow don't realize that there are plenty of socialistic practices that pervade American society already, corporate and military/Pentagon social welfare being the major ones. Secondly, I'm not sure I trust the Vox chart's numbers--especially the alleged payroll tax increases he states which don't appear to be an accurate representation of Bernie's plans. But even so, if the Vox guy is correct with the income tax, it's only ~2% increase on anyone making up to ~250K/year. The slight income tax increases are to cover the single payer health plan and paid leave program only, from what I understand. The idea is, that you would have a slight income tax increase but would not have a private insurance policy and that expense, so on the balance, you would be saving greatly for health care. The only tax I don't agree with--for any citizen--is the carbon tax, which I think is a total scam, though it appears that Bernie would only be applying that to the fossil fuel producing industries(not sure on that one). Anyway, better to look at Bernie's site for his plans: https://berniesanders.com/issues/how-bernie-pays-for-his-proposals/ Corn, I'm well aware of the socialistic practices that pervade America already. You even failed to mention one - farms. More specifically corporate farming, ethanol subsidies, dairy subs, etc & etc - too many to name. All of these put together - including the ones you note + what Bernie wants to add - how can it be affordable? There aren't enough 'filthy rich' to pay for it all. Those filthy rich can afford to move away and they are the ones who provide most of us jobs. Small business owners are often also included in the list of filthy rich because they earn over $250k. Yet they provide many of our jobs. I would like to see a reverse trend away from socialism including the corporate welfare you note above. The Piper has to be paid sometime and we keep kicking the can down the road to the kids to deal with. I'd be all for justifiable military industrial complex cut backs in order to provide services to individuals. But protection of the nation is the primary role of the fed govt. Reform is needed, but must be in line wt the real threats we face. Link to comment
Danny Bateman Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Net Net guys - are you ready for the good ole USA to become a socialistic nation? As Reagan use to say, the Gov't that can give it all can take it all away. If you think we are dumping enormous debt on our children and grandkids now - just wait until Bernie does his thing. That is the totally irresponsible. As much as I like his honesty, I dislike the possible path he'd take this country on. He has to pay for that $19 Trillion in spending somehow. Yeah socialism sucks--just ask the Pentagon. The troops, everybody loves themselves some troops--the socialistically paid troops. Or the police force, or the fire dpt, or the public schools, or public utilities, or the post office, or the grandma getting her SS check so she doesn't have to eat cat food. Just ask Goldman Sachs'/Chase Bank, Wells Fargo, et al, bailed out asses how they feel about socialism, or GM, or Boeing whois heavily subsidized and sells their planes to the gov't whenever nobody else is buying. All insurance is a form of socialism. How about your pro sports unions, yeah, socialistic. Ask Israel how they feel about Mur'can socialism to the tune of~3 billion per year. Roads, how could I forget the roads? Shall I go on? Bernie is simply going after the filthy rich to getting back to paying something resembling their fair share in the society, but not even near as much as that commie socialist Republican Eisenhower did back in the day when he had them at a marginal tax rate of ~90%. Lifting the $250k cap on income for SS payroll tax, the Tobin tax for Wall St speculation, not exactly rad ideas. The rich have had their way for the last several decades, Bernie just wants to restore some semblance of socioeconomic balance/sanity. He's not going to be able to raise taxes on only the wealthy. Everyone's taxes will be raised on some level. I understand the wealthy will get hit pretty good based on his plans, but I'm not betting on my taxes raising single digits. His ideas just seem too far fetched for me to buy into the hype. http://www.vox.com/2016/1/22/10814798/bernie-sanders-tax-rates I just seen this article this morning as well just generally talking about the elections. I agree, it's a mess.... https://www.yahoo.com/politics/so-much-for-the-political-1352516777156662.html First of all, my above reply was a response to those who somehow don't realize that there are plenty of socialistic practices that pervade American society already, corporate and military/Pentagon social welfare being the major ones. Secondly, I'm not sure I trust the Vox chart's numbers--especially the alleged payroll tax increases he states which don't appear to be an accurate representation of Bernie's plans. But even so, if the Vox guy is correct with the income tax, it's only ~2% increase on anyone making up to ~250K/year. The slight income tax increases are to cover the single payer health plan and paid leave program only, from what I understand. The idea is, that you would have a slight income tax increase but would not have a private insurance policy and that expense, so on the balance, you would be saving greatly for health care. The only tax I don't agree with--for any citizen--is the carbon tax, which I think is a total scam, though it appears that Bernie would only be applying that to the fossil fuel producing industries(not sure on that one). Anyway, better to look at Bernie's site for his plans: https://berniesanders.com/issues/how-bernie-pays-for-his-proposals/ He was using the 6.6% payroll tax figure that was rolled out in Bernie's 2013 proposal for payroll tax increases. Before Bernie finally dropped his most recent plan for single-payer, that was all people had to go on to guess at the financing. Above $250k, the rates start to jump so rapidly because he's figuring in the marginal tax rate changes like removing the cap on SS at $250k. I'm certainly no defender of the rich. I like what Bernie is doing by taking from the rich and giving to the poor. I like the concept. But some of it just seems economically unsound. Like they mentioned in the Vox article that Bernie's raises on capital gains taxes could actually decrease revenue due to the lowered volume of transactions. David Kamin, a professor of tax law at NYU and a former economic adviser to President Obama, notes in a recent paper, "The Joint Committee on Taxation and Treasury both assume that the revenue-maximizing rate for capital gains revenue ranges from 28 to 32 percent." That's much, much lower than the 64.2 percent top rate Sanders would enact, and much lower than the 49.2 percent rate he'd impose on many who are currently in the top 23.8 percent bracket. Let alone the fact that personally, if I were to ever find myself making north of $250k... it would really piss me off to have my profits slashed by that much. It seems to me that by curtailing $250k+ profits by 62% and up, you're making it very difficult to amass profit past that point. I worry about the effect that this may have on entrepreneurship and retaining American businesses as opposed to them outsourcing. I like Bernie's principles, but I find some of his policies politically untenable, and it makes it hard for me to want to vote for him. Link to comment
cornographic Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Net Net guys - are you ready for the good ole USA to become a socialistic nation? As Reagan use to say, the Gov't that can give it all can take it all away. If you think we are dumping enormous debt on our children and grandkids now - just wait until Bernie does his thing. That is the totally irresponsible. As much as I like his honesty, I dislike the possible path he'd take this country on. He has to pay for that $19 Trillion in spending somehow. Yeah socialism sucks--just ask the Pentagon. The troops, everybody loves themselves some troops--the socialistically paid troops. Or the police force, or the fire dpt, or the public schools, or public utilities, or the post office, or the grandma getting her SS check so she doesn't have to eat cat food. Just ask Goldman Sachs'/Chase Bank, Wells Fargo, et al, bailed out asses how they feel about socialism, or GM, or Boeing whois heavily subsidized and sells their planes to the gov't whenever nobody else is buying. All insurance is a form of socialism. How about your pro sports unions, yeah, socialistic. Ask Israel how they feel about Mur'can socialism to the tune of~3 billion per year. Roads, how could I forget the roads? Shall I go on? Bernie is simply going after the filthy rich to getting back to paying something resembling their fair share in the society, but not even near as much as that commie socialist Republican Eisenhower did back in the day when he had them at a marginal tax rate of ~90%. Lifting the $250k cap on income for SS payroll tax, the Tobin tax for Wall St speculation, not exactly rad ideas. The rich have had their way for the last several decades, Bernie just wants to restore some semblance of socioeconomic balance/sanity. He's not going to be able to raise taxes on only the wealthy. Everyone's taxes will be raised on some level. I understand the wealthy will get hit pretty good based on his plans, but I'm not betting on my taxes raising single digits. His ideas just seem too far fetched for me to buy into the hype. http://www.vox.com/2016/1/22/10814798/bernie-sanders-tax-rates I just seen this article this morning as well just generally talking about the elections. I agree, it's a mess.... https://www.yahoo.com/politics/so-much-for-the-political-1352516777156662.html First of all, my above reply was a response to those who somehow don't realize that there are plenty of socialistic practices that pervade American society already, corporate and military/Pentagon social welfare being the major ones. Secondly, I'm not sure I trust the Vox chart's numbers--especially the alleged payroll tax increases he states which don't appear to be an accurate representation of Bernie's plans. But even so, if the Vox guy is correct with the income tax, it's only ~2% increase on anyone making up to ~250K/year. The slight income tax increases are to cover the single payer health plan and paid leave program only, from what I understand. The idea is, that you would have a slight income tax increase but would not have a private insurance policy and that expense, so on the balance, you would be saving greatly for health care. The only tax I don't agree with--for any citizen--is the carbon tax, which I think is a total scam, though it appears that Bernie would only be applying that to the fossil fuel producing industries(not sure on that one). Anyway, better to look at Bernie's site for his plans: https://berniesanders.com/issues/how-bernie-pays-for-his-proposals/ Corn, I'm well aware of the socialistic practices that pervade America already. You even failed to mention one - farms. More specifically corporate farming, ethanol subsidies, dairy subs, etc & etc - too many to name. All of these put together - including the ones you note + what Bernie wants to add - how can it be affordable? There aren't enough 'filthy rich' to pay for it all. Those filthy rich can afford to move away and they are the ones who provide most of us jobs. Small business owners are often also included in the list of filthy rich because they earn over $250k. Yet they provide many of our jobs. I would like to see a reverse trend away from socialism including the corporate welfare you note above. The Piper has to be paid sometime and we keep kicking the can down the road to the kids to deal with. I'd be all for justifiable military industrial complex cut backs in order to provide services to individuals. But protection of the nation is the primary role of the fed govt. Reform is needed, but must be in line wt the real threats we face. Maybe you could explain this stuff to BRB, he's somewhat hard of thinking on these matters. Anyway, yeah, I forgot to mention the farmers here, but I have mentioned them elsewhere. They have a pretty sweet deal of gov't subsidization/socialization. I think the ethanol thing is a completely stupid idea that wastes huge amounts of land and has a diminishing return. So, not a fan of ethanol, IOW. As to the military, people seem to forget the unbelievably massive amount of $ that goes into it's maintainance. They could cut it by even a 1/4 or 1/3 and probably pay for every type of social program imaginable just from that $ alone, no other taxation, etc. Shut down 1/2 of the ~1000 bases we have sitting more or less idle around the globe. Seriously, the military is, by FAR, the largest financial parasite on the American population. But good luck changing that. The medical industry is the 2nd largest parasite on the American population. And, there are certainly a multitude of other wasteful gov't entities that basically don't do anything useful that could be cut, cut the graft, etc etc. So, I'm not all about big gov't, but I think there are certain things in society, The Commons, that are best served in a gov't/socialistic way--like the roads, the fire dpt, etc. Gov't can do important, useful things, and be an appropriate size thereof. W/O trying to reiterate everything about Bernie, I don't see that his plans put much of an extra burden on non millionaires. The socio/economic scene has been shifted so far to the advantage of the rich, especially since Reagan, that it is time to get back to helping the working and middle classes, and the money is out there. Otherwise, this country is going into third worldization at a fairly rapid clip. Depends on what kind of country you want, I guess. Of course, none of the Republican plans are about reversing this, since they are the representatives of the owning/business/investor class. So, depends on your class interest where you fall, I guess. I recommend checking out Bernie's link I provided above. US Military $ ticker: Every hour, taxpayers in the United States are paying $8.36 million for Total Cost of Wars Since 2001. https://www.nationalpriorities.org/cost-of/ Link to comment
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