I Don't Care About Riley's "System" - It will never work!

[Xmas32]

I'm not sure why you're throwing Boise, Utah and TCU in here as comparison examples. It's significantly easier to build a powerhouse programs when you're playing in a largely crappy conference (none of those schools have been in Power 5 conferences for more than 5 years).

 

I fully agree with you on Baylor and Art Briles though. He has them absolutely humming.

[TheSker]

 

So you'd like Paul johnson here, who is 2-4 yet complaining about Riley who is 2-4?

 

If you put Paul Johnson and Mike Riley's resumes side by side, you'll clearly see which one you'd be less worried about being 2-4.

[Guy Chamberlin]

 

 

So you'd like Paul johnson here, who is 2-4 yet complaining about Riley who is 2-4?

 

If you put Paul Johnson and Mike Riley's resumes side by side, you'll clearly see which one you'd be less worried about being 2-4.

 

 

Then again, Paul Johnson is 2 - 4 with a team that was ranked #8 last season. In a well established system he recruited for.

And his margins of defeats have been greater.

 

Why do you insist on making excuses for Paul Johnson?

[TheSker]

 

 

 

So you'd like Paul johnson here, who is 2-4 yet complaining about Riley who is 2-4?

 

If you put Paul Johnson and Mike Riley's resumes side by side, you'll clearly see which one you'd be less worried about being 2-4.

 

 

Then again, Paul Johnson is 2 - 4 with a team that was ranked #8 last season. In a well established system he recruited for.

And his margins of defeats have been greater.

 

Why do you insist on making excuses for Paul Johnson?

 

There was nothing in my post about an excuse. It was about a resume comparison.

 

And between Johnson and Riley, it's not a close comparison.

[FrostedTips]

 

So, as I'm reading correctly from this thread, OP essentially wants us to go back to 1995 because throwing the football is "wussy."

 

Give me a break. There are several things in OP that make the argument drivel, but one of the most egregious is the idea that outstanding coaches find ways to win regardless of their circumstances. Many of the "outstanding" or even very successful coaches in division one football right now had average teams at lower tier schools. Saban is one of them. You're pumping poison into other posters here by suggesting great coaches have been great forever and that's fundamentally false.

 

And those "sissy" offenses from the coasts have been working our defenses raw for years. Does that still make them sissy? Pretty sure most of those athletes would've destroyed you and most of this board in our prime so don't sit there and spout off about how they're somehow lesser football players because they don't meet some vision in your mind.

 

I actually agree that I think Nebraska should be more of a run-based program. And if you want to argue a different type of scheme is better for Nebraska that's fine, but you can do better than that.

 

Enhance89 -

 

I will clarify again....I said my PREFERENCE is 80/20 (or higher to run the ball) because i love the running game. I did NOT say that my OPINION of passing the ball to be wussy football as the REASON why NU needs to be a running team. There are many reasons why i feel Nebraska's best chance to return to NATIONAL prominence is to run the ball (and a solid defense and special teams), namely weather conditions, recruiting, the walk on program, identity, tradition, etc.

 

Coaches - Saban, Meyer, Devaney, Osborne, they figured it out and WON in the middle and latter stages of their careers. Sure, guys like Saban had a few rough years in the beginning of their head coaching careers, but later on they figured things out and rolled. Guys like Osborne and Meyer (just to name a few) never really had any bad years. My whole point being, Riley, In the last 20 years, has never figured it out. He's never won ANYTHING substantial. I mean, we're talking about a guy who just last year went 5-7 with HIS PLAYERS and his own "SYSTEM". He's been a head coach for a couple decades and been in coaching overall for close to 40 years. That is plenty of time to figure out how to WIN at the highest level. Now if, let's say, he had a few bad years in the beginning but then developed a solid winning career at Oregon State after that, fine. But he hasn't. Not even close. He's been mediocre his entire coaching career, college and NFL.

 

Schemes - sure, we can talk that. Start with inside zone and outside zone blocking, add in Power runs with pulling linemen, traps, isos, counters, options, etc. I could talk all day on running plays. You can have the schemes but you also need to get the horses, which NU could do.

 

I will say this.....in re-watching the Wisconsin game again earlier, it does look like Riley's TRYING to incorporate more running schemes/plays into his arsenal and also allowing Armstrong to run more and even some of the QB-designed runs looked good.

 

Someone better tell Aaron Rodgers he won't be successful once the calendar hits November.

[BRV920]

You do realize that pro football players are the top 1% of college football players. How about naming a Midwest college team that has won anything being a pass first offense.

[FrostedTips]

You do realize that pro football players are the top 1% of college football players. How about naming a Midwest college team that has won anything being a pass first offense.

Pros play against pros. College athletes play against college athletes. My point is that you are able to be a successful passing team in Midwest weather conditions. It isn't about an offensive system, but the athletes gathered to play in said system.

[Count 'Bility]

 

 

So, as I'm reading correctly from this thread, OP essentially wants us to go back to 1995 because throwing the football is "wussy."

 

Give me a break. There are several things in OP that make the argument drivel, but one of the most egregious is the idea that outstanding coaches find ways to win regardless of their circumstances. Many of the "outstanding" or even very successful coaches in division one football right now had average teams at lower tier schools. Saban is one of them. You're pumping poison into other posters here by suggesting great coaches have been great forever and that's fundamentally false.

 

And those "sissy" offenses from the coasts have been working our defenses raw for years. Does that still make them sissy? Pretty sure most of those athletes would've destroyed you and most of this board in our prime so don't sit there and spout off about how they're somehow lesser football players because they don't meet some vision in your mind.

 

I actually agree that I think Nebraska should be more of a run-based program. And if you want to argue a different type of scheme is better for Nebraska that's fine, but you can do better than that.

 

Enhance89 -

 

I will clarify again....I said my PREFERENCE is 80/20 (or higher to run the ball) because i love the running game. I did NOT say that my OPINION of passing the ball to be wussy football as the REASON why NU needs to be a running team. There are many reasons why i feel Nebraska's best chance to return to NATIONAL prominence is to run the ball (and a solid defense and special teams), namely weather conditions, recruiting, the walk on program, identity, tradition, etc.

 

Coaches - Saban, Meyer, Devaney, Osborne, they figured it out and WON in the middle and latter stages of their careers. Sure, guys like Saban had a few rough years in the beginning of their head coaching careers, but later on they figured things out and rolled. Guys like Osborne and Meyer (just to name a few) never really had any bad years. My whole point being, Riley, In the last 20 years, has never figured it out. He's never won ANYTHING substantial. I mean, we're talking about a guy who just last year went 5-7 with HIS PLAYERS and his own "SYSTEM". He's been a head coach for a couple decades and been in coaching overall for close to 40 years. That is plenty of time to figure out how to WIN at the highest level. Now if, let's say, he had a few bad years in the beginning but then developed a solid winning career at Oregon State after that, fine. But he hasn't. Not even close. He's been mediocre his entire coaching career, college and NFL.

 

Schemes - sure, we can talk that. Start with inside zone and outside zone blocking, add in Power runs with pulling linemen, traps, isos, counters, options, etc. I could talk all day on running plays. You can have the schemes but you also need to get the horses, which NU could do.

 

I will say this.....in re-watching the Wisconsin game again earlier, it does look like Riley's TRYING to incorporate more running schemes/plays into his arsenal and also allowing Armstrong to run more and even some of the QB-designed runs looked good.

That's more reasonable. I think you have valid concerns surrounding the offense and Riley, but if I may add a few things.

 

First, your run/pass preference. I understand your love of the running game and it is my preference, too. But, 80/20 is far too high in general. Even the best Husker offense in the last 25 years, 1995, had a run/pass ratio of 73 percent run, 27 percent pass. Some may mention Paul Johnson, then, who ran just under 80 percent of the time last year at 79.5 percent. That's the same man whose 2-4 this season with 'his players' and his own 'system.'

 

With coaches, again, you make some valid points, but the thing you're ignoring in your analysis is the coaching venues many of those men went to in order to win. Saban struggled at mid-to-lower tier programs but didn't really impress anyone until he got a job where - LSU. Night and day difference from a variety of standpoints compared to a place like Michigan St. at the time, where he was coaching. Riley has spent his entire college coaching career at a place considered to be one of the worst college football programs in the country from a fan, money and resources standpoint. I believe most coaches would struggle to win anything of substance there unless they were one of the few elite coaches. Does that mean Riley will eventually get it all figured out at Nebraska and win big? I don't know. But, I'm still not ready to throw in the towel.

 

I personally believe Nebraska can win with a balanced attack here. A school that doesn't have the same advantages as Nebraska is doing it (Michigan St.) and won the B1G conference and the Rose Bowl in 2013.

 

Here's the biggest point, though - Eichorst is not getting fired by season's end. And he's going to be extremely reluctant to fire Riley, his own choice, by the end of the season. So, we all might as well buckle down and just hope the team gets better. There's literally nothing else we can do. Talking about coaching changes and how wrong a coach is during the season does little but spread poison. We're halfway through the season. I'd rather evaluate the entire product then make rash judgement halfway through the first season.

id like to expand on that run pass ratio of 95. Id be curious to see-and will look into it if i get time-if that ratio evens out even more in say first halves-or in the case of that ridiculous team-1st quarters when the games were "still in doubt".

[Guy Chamberlin]

You do realize that pro football players are the top 1% of college football players. How about naming a Midwest college team that has won anything being a pass first offense.

 

True. The La. Techs and Hawaii's and BYUs and Texas Techs have put up crazy passing numbers over the years, and it generally lands them in lower-tier bowl games. They can put up 600 yards of total offense and still lose.

 

Baylor and TCU may prove the exception.

 

But I'm still having trouble with the phrase "pass first offense."

 

As long as we're talking college football, find me a Top Ten team that does not pass the ball often and well. I guarantee you they also run the ball well.

 

What they don't really do is fixate on whether they are a "run first" or "pass first" offense. They generally do both well, and will do one more often if the opposing defense is exploitable. Last year we wanted to be run-first Wisconsin. This year Joel Stave through the ball 50 times against Nebraska.

 

The best teams in college football will pass on first down on one series. Run the ball on first down in the next series. A third and one can go either way.

 

Sometimes I think Nebraska fans are the only people having this conversation.

[Count 'Bility]

 

You do realize that pro football players are the top 1% of college football players. How about naming a Midwest college team that has won anything being a pass first offense.

 

True. The La. Techs and Hawaii's and BYUs and Texas Techs have put up crazy passing numbers over the years, and it generally lands them in lower-tier bowl games. They can put up 600 yards of total offense and still lose.

 

Baylor and TCU may prove the exception.

 

But I'm still having trouble with the phrase "pass first offense."

 

As long as we're talking college football, find me a Top Ten team that does not pass the ball often and well. I guarantee you they also run the ball well.

 

What they don't really do is fixate on whether they are a "run first" or "pass first" offense. They generally do both well, and will do one more often if the opposing defense is exploitable. Last year we wanted to be run-first Wisconsin. This year Joel Stave through the ball 50 times against Nebraska.

 

The best teams in college football will pass on first down on one series. Run the ball on first down in the next series. A third and one can go either way.

 

Sometimes I think Nebraska fans are the only people having this conversation.

only nebraska fans could have one thread bitching about not enough smashmouth football in one thread, and thanking their lucky stars that the only guy in CFB that coulda brough it here is NOT our coach in another.

[HuskersBeatIowa]

 

And just from a pure selfish reason, I want a coach who knows and can teach/coach an overpowering running game (at least a 80/20 or higher run-pass ratio) because i like the BEAUTY of a running game attack I find more joy in a 5 yard fullback trap or an inside ISO play than I do any kind of pass play. Passing, to me, just represents WUSSY football pure and simple. You aren't dominating anyone with a passing attack. You aren't imposing your will with a passing game. You're playing monkey in the middle, throwing it over the defenders' head instead of RAMMING it down their throats with a running game.

 

80/20. lol

 

Maybe we should wear leather helmets too.

Ya that cracked me up too. He had some good points, but saying ATLEAST a 80/20 run to pass split would be insane. Hello 9 or more in box and blitzing on every play.

 

But with that being said I'd love to see a 65/35 ish split with run pass. Also I agree that Riley doesn't deserve his whole contract if play continues like this. 99.9% of us when we found out Riley was hired had that letdown and or sick feeling in our stomach. But then we let our hearts be reeled into the false hope. You know the saying trust your gut, odds are it's right.

 

The main reason that most of us changed opinions and opened up to Riley was his experience. We clamor here for just the idea of coaches not shooting the team in foot, and being a help, not a harm to the team. We all seen that in Riley, and bought the whole he did less with more hype. But here we are halfway through year one and you could debate 3 of our losses and 1 near loss all could be pinned squarely on collective coaching decisions. Riley has spent whole career virtually on West Coast with some South and Canada mixed in. Even the biggest of Mr. Rogers lovers have to admit that at his age, previous track record, and being in a foreign leauge that's style is complete opposite of everything he's ever known, is a big stretch.

[BRV920]

I posted in another thread the stats on running percentage for the national champs during the BCS era. Two of those teams were a 50/50 split in run pass. Oklahoma and FSU. All of the rest were around a 60/40 run/pass ratio. So the numbers point to a team that can do both but their bread and butter is running the ball. So if the goal is winning a national championship wouldn't you want to model your team on the model?

[gdubs4nu]

FWIW, all four playoff teams last year were top 20 in pass efficiency. Only two teams were in the top 25 in run efficiency. Florida State ranked 86th.

 

It's not whether you're calling a pass or run play, its that when you call a play, you execute it efficiently. Nebraska has proven to be able to run the ball, just not consistently. Nebraska has proven to be able to pass the ball, just not consistently.

 

I'll still take 4 losses by a total of 11 points leading 3 of the four games with at least 10 seconds on the clock over more double digit losses than double digit wins and single digit losses any day.

 

People that hang their hat on it being solely an offensive problem seem to forget that the defense has given up the winning score in every game so far.

 

It's not just one thing, there a lots of things that need to be fixed. Be patient. This staff will figure it out. Whining won't help anyone win games.

[Jeremy]

FWIW, all four playoff teams last year were top 20 in pass efficiency. Only two teams were in the top 25 in run efficiency. Florida State ranked 86th.

 

It's not whether you're calling a pass or run play, its that when you call a play, you execute it efficiently. Nebraska has proven to be able to run the ball, just not consistently. Nebraska has proven to be able to pass the ball, just not consistently.

 

I'll still take 4 losses by a total of 11 points leading 3 of the four games with at least 10 seconds on the clock over more double digit losses than double digit wins and single digit losses any day.

 

People that hang their hat on it being solely an offensive problem seem to forget that the defense has given up the winning score in every game so far.

 

It's not just one thing, there a lots of things that need to be fixed. Be patient. This staff will figure it out. Whining won't help anyone win games.

Respectfully disagree. Had the offense gotten one more first down at the end of three of the losses, we would've won.

[desertshox]

 

FWIW, all four playoff teams last year were top 20 in pass efficiency. Only two teams were in the top 25 in run efficiency. Florida State ranked 86th.

 

It's not whether you're calling a pass or run play, its that when you call a play, you execute it efficiently. Nebraska has proven to be able to run the ball, just not consistently. Nebraska has proven to be able to pass the ball, just not consistently.

 

I'll still take 4 losses by a total of 11 points leading 3 of the four games with at least 10 seconds on the clock over more double digit losses than double digit wins and single digit losses any day.

 

People that hang their hat on it being solely an offensive problem seem to forget that the defense has given up the winning score in every game so far.

 

It's not just one thing, there a lots of things that need to be fixed. Be patient. This staff will figure it out. Whining won't help anyone win games.

Respectfully disagree. Had the offense gotten one more first down at the end of three of the losses, we would've won.

 

and had the defense stopped the opposing team after not getting that first down, they would have won.

 

i can't believe i actually had to type that.