Immigration Pause

[Moiraine]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

800,000 refugees/immigrants since 9/11.

 

 

4 have been charged with terrorism.

 

 

it's fine.

Where do you get such a number? That's 14 years. Terrorism all over the world. Likely thousands of attacks by refugees and immigrants all over. Why would you say $? Are you talking those convicted of carrying out attacks in the USA? We know they are terror attacks all over. Paris attacks were refugees for example. The two who were killed in San Bernadino CA one week ago were 'refugee/immigrant' and child of immigrant! I am sorry but the Unites States poplution is 'estimated' as we don't really even know due to illegal immigration at alarming rates over the past 7 years! Estimated at around 330 MILLION! That is about 90 million more than have jobs in this economy! We need 20 million good, upper middle income jobs immediately and another 2 million yearly.

One reason we have so much illegal immigration is because the bottom feeders in our economy would rather live on the social welfare handouts than take entry level jobs.

Do you have statistics to back that up or is it just a gut feeling based on stories you've heard about individuals? I have a feeling (but no stats) that illegal immigrants are taking jobs that pay less than minimum wage.

 

Some anecdotal evidence: I was on food stamps for a year while getting my undergrad degree in Math and Education and working 25 hours per week cashiering and tutoring. I wanted to work, and I worked, and still needed help so I took it. I wasn't a "bottom feeder" who wanted to live off of handouts. I find it highly unlikely that more than a handful of people on social programs actually want to be reliant on them, but again, I don't have statistics.

 

Either way, there's no reason we should cut social welfare "handouts" as you call them and spend as much $ as we do on corporate subsidies. Almost every state, maybe every state, requires that you work or volunteer if you want to receive food stamps. I don't know the details on other types of welfare.

Sorry, no stats other than personal experience over the years working with various people. It sounds like your situation is the exception more than the rule. I mean, what percentage of people receiving food stamps are college students? I'm guessing it's a fairly small percentage.

And I think people abusing the system area exception. I think the people who abuse the system are just more memorable because they're doing something horrible.

Fair enough. But why is it that there are so many minimum wage jobs available for the taking, and yet a lot of folks would rather get a free handout than work for a small wage? I can understand if someone is going to college and working part time. But what about the vast majority of people who aren't seeking to improve their skill set?

 

I think I was more compassionate years ago when I was just reading about these situations, before I had actually met some of these people and tried to work with them. Over the years I've gradually become convinced that, in many cases, free handouts aren't the way to go. It incentivizes the wrong behavior. But I guess that's just my opinion. :shrug:

Those are the statistics I'm saying you don't have. This "lot of folks" and "vast majority."

 

Unfortunately there is a sweet spot for some of these things where it's better to stay on assistance. For instance if you work too many hours and make $500 too much then you're ineligible for the benefit which might have been more than $500.

 

I don't really know how non disability welfare works but I was under the impression they had to prove they were applying for x # of jobs.

[BigRedBuster]

Your last paragraph is a joke.

 

It's amazing how many people will apply for jobs with absolutely no intention of taking them so ghet can keep getting welfare.

 

I owned a small contracting company. I would hire 2-3 in the spring, if I put an ad in the paper, I would get lots of people just wanting to fill out an application.

 

These were people that I could have hired and given a job to. But, they didn't want the job. They just needed to fill it out.

[Moiraine]

Maybe what should happen is the minimum wage should continue to rise with inflation and if something like that passes, reduce social welfare spending (other than that for the elderly and maybe children). That's something that makes sense to me.

 

Corporations are making more $ than ever in comparison to their employees so they should be able to keep up with inflation at the bare minimum. Do this and increase the requirements for welfare eligibility, since min. wage workers would be making more money.

[BigRedBuster]

Maybe what should happen is the minimum wage should continue to rise with inflation and if something like that passes, reduce social welfare spending (other than that for the elderly and maybe children). That's something that makes sense to me.

 

Corporations are making more $ than ever in comparison to their employees so they should be able to keep up with inflation at the bare minimum. Do this and increase the requirements for welfare eligibility, since min. wage workers would be making more money.

I paid quite a bit more than minimum wage.

[Moiraine]

 

Maybe what should happen is the minimum wage should continue to rise with inflation and if something like that passes, reduce social welfare spending (other than that for the elderly and maybe children). That's something that makes sense to me.

 

Corporations are making more $ than ever in comparison to their employees so they should be able to keep up with inflation at the bare minimum. Do this and increase the requirements for welfare eligibility, since min. wage workers would be making more money.

I paid quite a bit more than minimum wage.

 

 

Doesn't matter. I'm saying do that, then make eligibility more strict. That'd force more people to work those jobs. Less would have the choice to not take the job because they wouldn't be eligible for welfare, and less would consider going on welfare in the first place.

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

 

They need to find an effective way to vet anyone seeking access to this country. Until they find a way to do so, things like the tragedy in San Bernadino will keep occurring. You can't just say one cross section of people can't come in because of what happened, partially because this is what the country was founded on.

 

They need to completely revamp the way immigration is run...

 

800,000 refugees/immigrants since 9/11.

 

 

4 have been charged with terrorism.

https://www.whitehou...y-united-states

 

That stat is a valid one.

 

However, let me throw something out there. It has been shown that ISIS is trying to use these refugees as a way to get operatives into various countries. Before them, was there any terrorist organization or enemy of the US that was actively trying to make that happen?

 

If not, this stat become much less meaningful.

 

If I am a DC and I have only gone against teams who run the ball 99% of the time and my defense is tailored to that, when I finally go against a team that I KNOW is going to try to throw on us, am I allowed to say..."Hey, I don't need to change anything because nobody has been successful throwing on us yet."

 

Al Qaeda in 2001

 

So, there were hundreds of thousands of refugees that were the world was trying to find a place for and Al Qaeda in 2001 was purposely trying to plant operatives in the midst of them so they end up in the US?

 

I don't remember that. Where were the refugees from in 2001?

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

Maybe what should happen is the minimum wage should continue to rise with inflation and if something like that passes, reduce social welfare spending (other than that for the elderly and maybe children). That's something that makes sense to me.

 

Corporations are making more $ than ever in comparison to their employees so they should be able to keep up with inflation at the bare minimum. Do this and increase the requirements for welfare eligibility, since min. wage workers would be making more money.

I paid quite a bit more than minimum wage.

 

 

Doesn't matter. I'm saying do that, then make eligibility more strict. That'd force more people to work those jobs. Less would have the choice to not take the job because they wouldn't be eligible for welfare, and less would consider going on welfare in the first place.

 

I'll give you credit, you have much more confidence in certain people than I do. I am interested in what type of stricter requirements you are talking about.

[Moiraine]

 

 

 

Maybe what should happen is the minimum wage should continue to rise with inflation and if something like that passes, reduce social welfare spending (other than that for the elderly and maybe children). That's something that makes sense to me.

 

Corporations are making more $ than ever in comparison to their employees so they should be able to keep up with inflation at the bare minimum. Do this and increase the requirements for welfare eligibility, since min. wage workers would be making more money.

I paid quite a bit more than minimum wage.

 

 

Doesn't matter. I'm saying do that, then make eligibility more strict. That'd force more people to work those jobs. Less would have the choice to not take the job because they wouldn't be eligible for welfare, and less would consider going on welfare in the first place.

 

I'll give you credit, you have much more confidence in certain people than I do. I am interested in what type of stricter requirements you are talking about.

 

 

It's never going to happen because a law to keep minimum wage up with inflation will never pass. I don't know what the current requirements are for all the welfare types so I don't know. I know for food stamps at the time I was on them you had to make less than $13,000 per year if you were the only member of your household. With that one example they could lower it to $12,000, or whatever. But the work requirement could stay at 20 hours. (That's what it is in Nebraska). If the minimum wage were $10 that would be $10,400 a year. So basically only people working < 25 hours at minimum wage would be eligible.

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

 

 

Maybe what should happen is the minimum wage should continue to rise with inflation and if something like that passes, reduce social welfare spending (other than that for the elderly and maybe children). That's something that makes sense to me.

 

Corporations are making more $ than ever in comparison to their employees so they should be able to keep up with inflation at the bare minimum. Do this and increase the requirements for welfare eligibility, since min. wage workers would be making more money.

I paid quite a bit more than minimum wage.

 

 

Doesn't matter. I'm saying do that, then make eligibility more strict. That'd force more people to work those jobs. Less would have the choice to not take the job because they wouldn't be eligible for welfare, and less would consider going on welfare in the first place.

 

I'll give you credit, you have much more confidence in certain people than I do. I am interested in what type of stricter requirements you are talking about.

 

 

It's never going to happen because a law to keep minimum wage up with inflation will never pass. I don't know what the current requirements are for all the welfare types so I don't know. I know for food stamps at the time I was on them you had to make less than $13,000 per year if you were the only member of your household. With that one example they could lower it to $12,000, or whatever. But the work requirement could stay at 20 hours. (That's what it is in Nebraska). If the minimum wage were $10 that would be $10,400 a year. So basically only people working < 25 hours at minimum wage would be eligible.

 

Just a little bit of info for this conversation.

 

My company's starting wage is $14 per hour. That's the starting wage. Very few people make that. Most people make much more than that once they are here at least long enough to prove they can show up and actually work. We are almost always hiring.

 

Living in a small town, I know people who that have absolutely no desire to work for these wages. Heck, if they don't want to work for me, I know a number of other companies in the same area that are also looking for help that pay similar or even in some cases, better than us.

 

But, these people never come to apply or even attempt to look. Honestly, I don't know the system well enough to understand how they keep getting government support but, that's what they live on.

 

So, I guess I have to go back to the fact that I believe there is a very large number of people in this country that don't have any desire to have a job or work. They are getting the support they feel they need and no aspirations to do anything but that.

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

800,000 refugees/immigrants since 9/11.

 

 

4 have been charged with terrorism.

 

 

it's fine.

Where do you get such a number? That's 14 years. Terrorism all over the world. Likely thousands of attacks by refugees and immigrants all over. Why would you say $? Are you talking those convicted of carrying out attacks in the USA? We know they are terror attacks all over. Paris attacks were refugees for example. The two who were killed in San Bernadino CA one week ago were 'refugee/immigrant' and child of immigrant! I am sorry but the Unites States poplution is 'estimated' as we don't really even know due to illegal immigration at alarming rates over the past 7 years! Estimated at around 330 MILLION! That is about 90 million more than have jobs in this economy! We need 20 million good, upper middle income jobs immediately and another 2 million yearly.

 

 

One reason we have so much illegal immigration is because the bottom feeders in our economy would rather live on the social welfare handouts than take entry level jobs. It's even tough to find decent workers for jobs paying almost twice the minimum wage. The problem with illegal immigrants is that many of them don't pay income taxes. If we bring in legitimate immigrants with skills and ambition, maybe the income tax they pay will help support some of our resident deadbeats.

 

I agree with a lot of your post but I question the bolded sentence.

 

I actually believe that most illegal immigrants do pay taxes. Yes, you are going to have the ones who work for the landscaper that pays them in cash...etc. However, there are one heck of a lot that work in jobs that require documentation as being citizens and legitimate pay rolls where appropriate taxes are taken out. How? the fake documents that are available now are absolutely so good that it is virtually impossible to tell if they are real or not. A company may go through all the appropriate channels to check on someone and still not catch that they are illegal.

 

These people are paying taxes. If they get a license and buy a car, they are obviously paying taxes on that. Anything they purchase, they pay sales tax on. If they buy a house, they pay property taxes...etc.

[NUance]

 

 

 

800,000 refugees/immigrants since 9/11.

 

 

4 have been charged with terrorism.

 

 

it's fine.

Where do you get such a number? That's 14 years. Terrorism all over the world. Likely thousands of attacks by refugees and immigrants all over. Why would you say $? Are you talking those convicted of carrying out attacks in the USA? We know they are terror attacks all over. Paris attacks were refugees for example. The two who were killed in San Bernadino CA one week ago were 'refugee/immigrant' and child of immigrant! I am sorry but the Unites States poplution is 'estimated' as we don't really even know due to illegal immigration at alarming rates over the past 7 years! Estimated at around 330 MILLION! That is about 90 million more than have jobs in this economy! We need 20 million good, upper middle income jobs immediately and another 2 million yearly.

 

 

One reason we have so much illegal immigration is because the bottom feeders in our economy would rather live on the social welfare handouts than take entry level jobs. It's even tough to find decent workers for jobs paying almost twice the minimum wage. The problem with illegal immigrants is that many of them don't pay income taxes. If we bring in legitimate immigrants with skills and ambition, maybe the income tax they pay will help support some of our resident deadbeats.

 

I agree with a lot of your post but I question the bolded sentence.

 

I actually believe that most illegal immigrants do pay taxes. Yes, you are going to have the ones who work for the landscaper that pays them in cash...etc. However, there are one heck of a lot that work in jobs that require documentation as being citizens and legitimate pay rolls where appropriate taxes are taken out. How? the fake documents that are available now are absolutely so good that it is virtually impossible to tell if they are real or not. A company may go through all the appropriate channels to check on someone and still not catch that they are illegal.

 

These people are paying taxes. If they get a license and buy a car, they are obviously paying taxes on that. Anything they purchase, they pay sales tax on. If they buy a house, they pay property taxes...etc.

 

 

Yeah, that's a good point. And just think of the windfall in FICA payments by illegal aliens who will never collect. They're paying for our retirement!

[StPaulHusker]

800,000 refugees/immigrants since 9/11.

 

 

4 have been charged with terrorism.

 

 

it's fine.

Can you post where you found this information? I would like to read into it more.

 

 

Thanks

[TGHusker]

Why do you have status quo as allowing all who want to enter the US enter? That's not the status quo and I don't think it ever has been. I would vote for the actual status quo but that option is not available.

I changed it to be more in the spirit of what I was trying to say - I think this will match what you mentioned

[Landlord]

 

800,000 refugees/immigrants since 9/11.

 

 

4 have been charged with terrorism.

 

 

it's fine.

Can you post where you found this information? I would like to read into it more.

 

 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

It's a pretty simplistic summation statement, but here's a good link that looks through a lot of the numbers

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/11/19/the-viral-claim-that-not-one-refugee-resettled-since-911-has-been-arrested-on-domestic-terrorism-charges/

[TGHusker]

I would say it is absolutely imperative that we provide really good resources, even extra resources, to refugees in order to give them a chance at being educated and employed well. Not only does that help our economy, but education and economical prosperity are the best ways to combat radicalization, and the most effective means to paving the way towards a safer world for our children.

Good post. Education is the best way to provide assimilation and prevent balkanization as well.