Gun Control

[Landlord]

 

I will make my position very clear one more time for you, so you can stop assigning BS positions to me that are not even remotely true and that should not be allowed.

 

I am against more gun control laws because they will not stop mass shootings, it will only infringe on my rights. It is not a gun problem it is a humanity problem. not once has a gun killed anyone, it is a person picking up a gun to kill. it is societies lack of morality, among other things.

 

 

Can you point me to statistics that allude to the notion that gun control laws won't prevent mass shootings? Because I showed some analyses earlier in this thread which support (in part) the idea that fewer guns (i.e., more gun control) leads to fewer mass shootings and I am eager to see contrary analyses.

 

Think of going through an airport before and after 9/11/2001. Are you mad that you have to give up a little of your right to privacy in order to have a safe flight?

 

 

 

 

its simple bro

 

 

france has strict gun control laws. 150 people still get shot. see? doesn't work!!!!

[huskerfan2000]

 

I will make my position very clear one more time for you, so you can stop assigning BS positions to me that are not even remotely true and that should not be allowed.

 

I am against more gun control laws because they will not stop mass shootings, it will only infringe on my rights. It is not a gun problem it is a humanity problem. not once has a gun killed anyone, it is a person picking up a gun to kill. it is societies lack of morality, among other things.

 

 

Can you point me to statistics that allude to the notion that gun control laws won't prevent mass shootings? Because I showed some analyses earlier in this thread which support (in part) the idea that fewer guns (i.e., more gun control) leads to fewer mass shootings and I am eager to see contrary analyses.

 

Think of going through an airport before and after 9/11/2001. Are you mad that you have to give up a little of your right to privacy in order to have a safe flight?

 

 

You will have to repost it, I can't find it!

[huskerfan2000]

http://www.thedailysheeple.com/why-more-gun-control-wont-prevent-mass-shootings_122013

 

Charles C. W. Cooke of National Review Online, in his Gun Control Dishonesty article, cited a list of massacres that have occurred in recent years. Here are 12 that happened prior to 2013. Pay close attention to how the weapons used were attained:

• In December of last year, Jacob Tyler Roberts stole a Stag Arms AR-15 semiautomatic rifle and killed two people in Portland, Oregon.
• In September of 2012, Andrew John Engeldinger went on a shooting rampage in Minneapolis after he had been fired. Engeldinger used a Glock 19 handgun that he had bought legally from a licensed dealer. He passed the background check that is mandatory for all commercial sales.
• In August last year, Wade Michael Page killed six members of a Sikh Temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin. Page was an Army veteran, and because his discharge was “general” not “dishonorable” he was legally allowed to buy firearms. This he did, buying the handgun that he used in the shooting at a gun shop in West Allis, Wisconsin, and passing the background checks without a hitch.
• In July, James Holmes killed 12 people at a movie theater in Aurora, Colorado. Over a period of time, Holmes legally purchased two Glock 22 pistols, a Remington 870, and Smith & Wesson M&P15 semi-automatic rifle. All the weapons were purchased from licensed dealers, and Holmes passed background checks on each occasion.
• In May of 2012, Ian Lee Stawicki murdered five people at the Café Racer Espresso in Seattle, Washington. Stawicki legally purchased two .45-caliber handguns for his spree, before which he had legally purchased four other firearms. Stawicki not only passed background checks on all six occasions, but he had a concealed-carry permit too.
• In April 2012, Jake England and Alvin Watts killed three black men in Tulsa, Oklahoma, in an apparently racially motivated attack. The guns they used were legally owned.
• In April of 2012, One L. Goh walked into Oikos University [in Oakland, Calfornia] and murdered seven people. Goh used a .45-caliber semi-automatic handgun and four 10-round magazines, all of which he had purchased legally from a licensed dealer. He passed a background check and abided by California’s ten-day waiting period.
• In February 2012, Thomas “TK” Lane used a .22 caliber handgun to shoot three people dead at Chardon High School in Ohio. Authorities reported that Lane had stolen the .22-caliber handgun from his uncle, who had purchased it legally.
• In October 2011, Scott Evans Dekraai killed eight people in Seal Beach, California. Dekraai used a 9mm Springfield pistol, a .45-caliber Heckler & Koch pistol, and a .44 Magnum Smith & Wesson revolver. All the guns were legally purchased. Just over a year earlier, Dekraai had been under a restraining order that had barred him from possessing firearms. This had expired at the time of the shooting.
• In September of 2011, Eduardo Sencion shot 5 people dead in an International House of Pancakes in Nevada. The rifle Sencion used was not only banned in America, but the company that made it was prohibited from selling or moving its products into the United States. Indeed, nobody knows how Sencion got hold of the weapon. Reports are unclear, but some suggest that the perpetrator illegally converted the weapon from semi-automatic to fully automatic.
• In November of this year, Paul Ciancia murdered a TSA agent at LAX. Ciancia used a .223-caliber Smith & Wesson M&P-15 rifle that he had modified and which was therefore illegal in the state; he brought with him five 30-round magazines, which have been illegal in California since 2000; and he walked happily into an airport, which is by definition a gun-free zone. Authorities told the Huffington Post that Ciancia acquired his guns legally: “He didn’t buy them on the street. He didn’t buy them on the Internet. He bought them from a licensed gun dealer.
• In September, Aaron Alexis killed 12 people at the Navy Yard in Washington D.C. Alexis had patronized a licensed dealer in Virginia and bought a Remington 870 shotgun that is so common that it is even legal in England. He had passed a background check. To commit his crime, he went onto a locked-down, “gun-free” military base, in a city in which carrying firearms is flatly prohibited.

Cooke also referenced two pre-2011 shootings – and last year’s school massacre – that prompted people to “do something”:

Jared Loughner, who shot Representative Gabby Giffords and murdered six other people, bought his 9mm Glock pistol legally. Seung-Hui Cho, the Virginia Tech student who was responsible for the most deadly shooting spree in American history, bought a .22 caliber Walther P22 semi-automatic pistol and a 9mm Glock 19 semiautomatic pistol from licensed dealers, and passed background checks on both occasions. And, of course, the guns used at Newtown were

legally purchased

by the perpetrator’s mother and then stolen by her son.

All of these shootings have something in common: none of the weapons used were purchased through an unregulated private sale or at a gun show. Yet, anti-gun activists and some legislators believe (or do they?) that more strict background checks will miraculously prevent additional gun-related tragedies.

 

[huskerfan2000]

Let's go back to 1989..

 

http://www.nytimes.com/1989/02/04/opinion/why-gun-laws-won-t-stop-shootings.html

 

 

Why Gun Laws Won't Stop Shootings By Don B. Kates Jr.; Don B. Kates Jr. is a constitutional lawyer and criminologist. Published: February 4, 1989

SAN FRANCISCO— Humane people react to the lack of ready solutions for tragedies like the Stockton, Calif., school massacre by crying out for gun control. I do not believe that gun bans can overcome the basic socio-economic and cultural factors that produce violence in America.

 

Americans assume that such laws have produced Europe's low rates of violence. But criminological studies find that these low rates long preceded the gun bans that supposedly caused them. Indeed, such laws were pioneered, unsuccessfully, by high-crime American states in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, when most of Europe had no gun laws.

It was only in the 1920's, when severe American gun laws were generally being abandoned as unworkable, that Europe was adopting them. However, European laws were aimed not at crime but at the political unrest of the post-World War I era.

 

Banning guns has not prevented modern Europe from suffering rates of political assassination, terrorism, etc., far exceeding those in the United States. Moreover, over the past 25 years even apolitical violence has risen more steeply in Europe than in America (although since Europe's crime rates started out far lower, its absolute rates remain lower).

What's especially ironic is that Switzerland consistently has had low violence, political and apolitical. Yet any law-abiding Swiss may own guns, and every male of military age must keep at home an assault rifle more powerful than that used in the Stockton massacre.

 

The point is not that arming citizens will eliminate crime. What the European evidence shows is that crime, being caused by socio-economic and cultural factors, can be at most marginally affected by gun policies.

 

England's foremost gun control analyst, Colin Greenwood, scoffs at claims that the availability of guns is a major cause of crime and that banning guns would reduce it.

Claiming that in any society the number of guns will always suffice to arm the violent aberrant, Mr. Greenwood sees rates of violence as varying with the relative size of a group: perhaps one in 300 Americans are violent, while the comparable figure for Japanese and Europeans may be one in 30,000.

[JJ Husker]

http://www.thedailysheeple.com/why-more-gun-control-wont-prevent-mass-shootings_122013

 

 

Charles C. W. Cooke of National Review Online, in his Gun Control Dishonesty article, cited a list of massacres that have occurred in recent years. Here are 12 that happened prior to 2013. Pay close attention to how the weapons used were attained:

 

• In December of last year, Jacob Tyler Roberts stole a Stag Arms AR-15 semiautomatic rifle and killed two people in Portland, Oregon.
• In September of 2012, Andrew John Engeldinger went on a shooting rampage in Minneapolis after he had been fired. Engeldinger used a Glock 19 handgun that he had bought legally from a licensed dealer. He passed the background check that is mandatory for all commercial sales.
• In August last year, Wade Michael Page killed six members of a Sikh Temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin. Page was an Army veteran, and because his discharge was “general” not “dishonorable” he was legally allowed to buy firearms. This he did, buying the handgun that he used in the shooting at a gun shop in West Allis, Wisconsin, and passing the background checks without a hitch.
• In July, James Holmes killed 12 people at a movie theater in Aurora, Colorado. Over a period of time, Holmes legally purchased two Glock 22 pistols, a Remington 870, and Smith & Wesson M&P15 semi-automatic rifle. All the weapons were purchased from licensed dealers, and Holmes passed background checks on each occasion.
• In May of 2012, Ian Lee Stawicki murdered five people at the Café Racer Espresso in Seattle, Washington. Stawicki legally purchased two .45-caliber handguns for his spree, before which he had legally purchased four other firearms. Stawicki not only passed background checks on all six occasions, but he had a concealed-carry permit too.
• In April 2012, Jake England and Alvin Watts killed three black men in Tulsa, Oklahoma, in an apparently racially motivated attack. The guns they used were legally owned.
• In April of 2012, One L. Goh walked into Oikos University [in Oakland, Calfornia] and murdered seven people. Goh used a .45-caliber semi-automatic handgun and four 10-round magazines, all of which he had purchased legally from a licensed dealer. He passed a background check and abided by California’s ten-day waiting period.
• In February 2012, Thomas “TK” Lane used a .22 caliber handgun to shoot three people dead at Chardon High School in Ohio. Authorities reported that Lane had stolen the .22-caliber handgun from his uncle, who had purchased it legally.
• In October 2011, Scott Evans Dekraai killed eight people in Seal Beach, California. Dekraai used a 9mm Springfield pistol, a .45-caliber Heckler & Koch pistol, and a .44 Magnum Smith & Wesson revolver. All the guns were legally purchased. Just over a year earlier, Dekraai had been under a restraining order that had barred him from possessing firearms. This had expired at the time of the shooting.
• In September of 2011, Eduardo Sencion shot 5 people dead in an International House of Pancakes in Nevada. The rifle Sencion used was not only banned in America, but the company that made it was prohibited from selling or moving its products into the United States. Indeed, nobody knows how Sencion got hold of the weapon. Reports are unclear, but some suggest that the perpetrator illegally converted the weapon from semi-automatic to fully automatic.
• In November of this year, Paul Ciancia murdered a TSA agent at LAX. Ciancia used a .223-caliber Smith & Wesson M&P-15 rifle that he had modified and which was therefore illegal in the state; he brought with him five 30-round magazines, which have been illegal in California since 2000; and he walked happily into an airport, which is by definition a gun-free zone. Authorities told the Huffington Post that Ciancia acquired his guns legally: “He didn’t buy them on the street. He didn’t buy them on the Internet. He bought them from a licensed gun dealer.
• In September, Aaron Alexis killed 12 people at the Navy Yard in Washington D.C. Alexis had patronized a licensed dealer in Virginia and bought a Remington 870 shotgun that is so common that it is even legal in England. He had passed a background check. To commit his crime, he went onto a locked-down, “gun-free” military base, in a city in which carrying firearms is flatly prohibited.

Cooke also referenced two pre-2011 shootings – and last year’s school massacre – that prompted people to “do something”:

 

Jared Loughner, who shot Representative Gabby Giffords and murdered six other people, bought his 9mm Glock pistol legally. Seung-Hui Cho, the Virginia Tech student who was responsible for the most deadly shooting spree in American history, bought a .22 caliber Walther P22 semi-automatic pistol and a 9mm Glock 19 semiautomatic pistol from licensed dealers, and passed background checks on both occasions. And, of course, the guns used at Newtown were legally purchased by the perpetrator’s mother and then stolen by her son.

 

All of these shootings have something in common: none of the weapons used were purchased through an unregulated private sale or at a gun show. Yet, anti-gun activists and some legislators believe (or do they?) that more strict background checks will miraculously prevent additional gun-related tragedies.

Well, this must leave only about 4 options;

 

1) Background checks don't work well enough so weapon bans it is. I mean after all, there is a problem.

 

2) Background checks and methods need to be greatly improved. I mean after all, there is a problem.

 

3) Something has to change and it involves the people who acquire weapons and/or the weapons they do acquire. Even if there are other societal forces at the root cause of gun violence, everyone realizes those forces will never be sufficiently corrected. I mean after all, there is a problem and there is no way we as a country will actually fix television and video game violence and there really is no way that family unit problems will get fixed by our government.

 

4) Problem, what problem? Leave everything just as it is and continue enjoying the nightly news.

 

If it's not one of those 4, what is it?

[huskerfan2000]

 

http://www.thedailysheeple.com/why-more-gun-control-wont-prevent-mass-shootings_122013

 

Charles C. W. Cooke of National Review Online, in his Gun Control Dishonesty article, cited a list of massacres that have occurred in recent years. Here are 12 that happened prior to 2013. Pay close attention to how the weapons used were attained:

• In December of last year, Jacob Tyler Roberts stole a Stag Arms AR-15 semiautomatic rifle and killed two people in Portland, Oregon.
• In September of 2012, Andrew John Engeldinger went on a shooting rampage in Minneapolis after he had been fired. Engeldinger used a Glock 19 handgun that he had bought legally from a licensed dealer. He passed the background check that is mandatory for all commercial sales.
• In August last year, Wade Michael Page killed six members of a Sikh Temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin. Page was an Army veteran, and because his discharge was “general” not “dishonorable” he was legally allowed to buy firearms. This he did, buying the handgun that he used in the shooting at a gun shop in West Allis, Wisconsin, and passing the background checks without a hitch.
• In July, James Holmes killed 12 people at a movie theater in Aurora, Colorado. Over a period of time, Holmes legally purchased two Glock 22 pistols, a Remington 870, and Smith & Wesson M&P15 semi-automatic rifle. All the weapons were purchased from licensed dealers, and Holmes passed background checks on each occasion.
• In May of 2012, Ian Lee Stawicki murdered five people at the Café Racer Espresso in Seattle, Washington. Stawicki legally purchased two .45-caliber handguns for his spree, before which he had legally purchased four other firearms. Stawicki not only passed background checks on all six occasions, but he had a concealed-carry permit too.
• In April 2012, Jake England and Alvin Watts killed three black men in Tulsa, Oklahoma, in an apparently racially motivated attack. The guns they used were legally owned.
• In April of 2012, One L. Goh walked into Oikos University [in Oakland, Calfornia] and murdered seven people. Goh used a .45-caliber semi-automatic handgun and four 10-round magazines, all of which he had purchased legally from a licensed dealer. He passed a background check and abided by California’s ten-day waiting period.
• In February 2012, Thomas “TK” Lane used a .22 caliber handgun to shoot three people dead at Chardon High School in Ohio. Authorities reported that Lane had stolen the .22-caliber handgun from his uncle, who had purchased it legally.
• In October 2011, Scott Evans Dekraai killed eight people in Seal Beach, California. Dekraai used a 9mm Springfield pistol, a .45-caliber Heckler & Koch pistol, and a .44 Magnum Smith & Wesson revolver. All the guns were legally purchased. Just over a year earlier, Dekraai had been under a restraining order that had barred him from possessing firearms. This had expired at the time of the shooting.
• In September of 2011, Eduardo Sencion shot 5 people dead in an International House of Pancakes in Nevada. The rifle Sencion used was not only banned in America, but the company that made it was prohibited from selling or moving its products into the United States. Indeed, nobody knows how Sencion got hold of the weapon. Reports are unclear, but some suggest that the perpetrator illegally converted the weapon from semi-automatic to fully automatic.
• In November of this year, Paul Ciancia murdered a TSA agent at LAX. Ciancia used a .223-caliber Smith & Wesson M&P-15 rifle that he had modified and which was therefore illegal in the state; he brought with him five 30-round magazines, which have been illegal in California since 2000; and he walked happily into an airport, which is by definition a gun-free zone. Authorities told the Huffington Post that Ciancia acquired his guns legally: “He didn’t buy them on the street. He didn’t buy them on the Internet. He bought them from a licensed gun dealer.
• In September, Aaron Alexis killed 12 people at the Navy Yard in Washington D.C. Alexis had patronized a licensed dealer in Virginia and bought a Remington 870 shotgun that is so common that it is even legal in England. He had passed a background check. To commit his crime, he went onto a locked-down, “gun-free” military base, in a city in which carrying firearms is flatly prohibited.

Cooke also referenced two pre-2011 shootings – and last year’s school massacre – that prompted people to “do something”:

 

Jared Loughner, who shot Representative Gabby Giffords and murdered six other people, bought his 9mm Glock pistol legally. Seung-Hui Cho, the Virginia Tech student who was responsible for the most deadly shooting spree in American history, bought a .22 caliber Walther P22 semi-automatic pistol and a 9mm Glock 19 semiautomatic pistol from licensed dealers, and passed background checks on both occasions. And, of course, the guns used at Newtown were legally purchased by the perpetrator’s mother and then stolen by her son.

 

All of these shootings have something in common: none of the weapons used were purchased through an unregulated private sale or at a gun show. Yet, anti-gun activists and some legislators believe (or do they?) that more strict background checks will miraculously prevent additional gun-related tragedies.

Well, this must leave only about 4 options;

 

1) Background checks don't work well enough so weapon bans it is. I mean after all, there is a problem.

 

2) Background checks and methods need to be greatly improved. I mean after all, there is a problem.

 

3) Something has to change and it involves the people who acquire weapons and/or the weapons they do acquire. Even if there are other societal forces at the root cause of gun violence, everyone realizes those forces will never be sufficiently corrected. I mean after all, there is a problem and there is no way we as a country will actually fix television and video game violence and there really is no way that family unit problems will get fixed by our government.

 

4) Problem, what problem? Leave everything just as it is and continue enjoying the nightly news.

 

If it's not one of those 4, what is it?

 

 

Answer me this..

 

Has a gun ever killed someone else by itself (without any intervention)? Once we get that established we can then move to the next step, which is figuring out who is the problem.

 

EDIT: I love your option 3 by the way!

[zoogs]

Neither has a hand grenade, and those are illegal.

[huKSer]

 

 

http://www.thedailysheeple.com/why-more-gun-control-wont-prevent-mass-shootings_122013

 

Charles C. W. Cooke of National Review Online, in his Gun Control Dishonesty article, cited a list of massacres that have occurred in recent years. Here are 12 that happened prior to 2013. Pay close attention to how the weapons used were attained:

• In December of last year, Jacob Tyler Roberts stole a Stag Arms AR-15 semiautomatic rifle and killed two people in Portland, Oregon.
• In September of 2012, Andrew John Engeldinger went on a shooting rampage in Minneapolis after he had been fired. Engeldinger used a Glock 19 handgun that he had bought legally from a licensed dealer. He passed the background check that is mandatory for all commercial sales.
• In August last year, Wade Michael Page killed six members of a Sikh Temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin. Page was an Army veteran, and because his discharge was “general” not “dishonorable” he was legally allowed to buy firearms. This he did, buying the handgun that he used in the shooting at a gun shop in West Allis, Wisconsin, and passing the background checks without a hitch.
• In July, James Holmes killed 12 people at a movie theater in Aurora, Colorado. Over a period of time, Holmes legally purchased two Glock 22 pistols, a Remington 870, and Smith & Wesson M&P15 semi-automatic rifle. All the weapons were purchased from licensed dealers, and Holmes passed background checks on each occasion.
• In May of 2012, Ian Lee Stawicki murdered five people at the Café Racer Espresso in Seattle, Washington. Stawicki legally purchased two .45-caliber handguns for his spree, before which he had legally purchased four other firearms. Stawicki not only passed background checks on all six occasions, but he had a concealed-carry permit too.
• In April 2012, Jake England and Alvin Watts killed three black men in Tulsa, Oklahoma, in an apparently racially motivated attack. The guns they used were legally owned.
• In April of 2012, One L. Goh walked into Oikos University [in Oakland, Calfornia] and murdered seven people. Goh used a .45-caliber semi-automatic handgun and four 10-round magazines, all of which he had purchased legally from a licensed dealer. He passed a background check and abided by California’s ten-day waiting period.
• In February 2012, Thomas “TK” Lane used a .22 caliber handgun to shoot three people dead at Chardon High School in Ohio. Authorities reported that Lane had stolen the .22-caliber handgun from his uncle, who had purchased it legally.
• In October 2011, Scott Evans Dekraai killed eight people in Seal Beach, California. Dekraai used a 9mm Springfield pistol, a .45-caliber Heckler & Koch pistol, and a .44 Magnum Smith & Wesson revolver. All the guns were legally purchased. Just over a year earlier, Dekraai had been under a restraining order that had barred him from possessing firearms. This had expired at the time of the shooting.
• In September of 2011, Eduardo Sencion shot 5 people dead in an International House of Pancakes in Nevada. The rifle Sencion used was not only banned in America, but the company that made it was prohibited from selling or moving its products into the United States. Indeed, nobody knows how Sencion got hold of the weapon. Reports are unclear, but some suggest that the perpetrator illegally converted the weapon from semi-automatic to fully automatic.
• In November of this year, Paul Ciancia murdered a TSA agent at LAX. Ciancia used a .223-caliber Smith & Wesson M&P-15 rifle that he had modified and which was therefore illegal in the state; he brought with him five 30-round magazines, which have been illegal in California since 2000; and he walked happily into an airport, which is by definition a gun-free zone. Authorities told the Huffington Post that Ciancia acquired his guns legally: “He didn’t buy them on the street. He didn’t buy them on the Internet. He bought them from a licensed gun dealer.
• In September, Aaron Alexis killed 12 people at the Navy Yard in Washington D.C. Alexis had patronized a licensed dealer in Virginia and bought a Remington 870 shotgun that is so common that it is even legal in England. He had passed a background check. To commit his crime, he went onto a locked-down, “gun-free” military base, in a city in which carrying firearms is flatly prohibited.

Cooke also referenced two pre-2011 shootings – and last year’s school massacre – that prompted people to “do something”:

 

Jared Loughner, who shot Representative Gabby Giffords and murdered six other people, bought his 9mm Glock pistol legally. Seung-Hui Cho, the Virginia Tech student who was responsible for the most deadly shooting spree in American history, bought a .22 caliber Walther P22 semi-automatic pistol and a 9mm Glock 19 semiautomatic pistol from licensed dealers, and passed background checks on both occasions. And, of course, the guns used at Newtown were legally purchased by the perpetrator’s mother and then stolen by her son.

 

All of these shootings have something in common: none of the weapons used were purchased through an unregulated private sale or at a gun show. Yet, anti-gun activists and some legislators believe (or do they?) that more strict background checks will miraculously prevent additional gun-related tragedies.

Well, this must leave only about 4 options;

 

1) Background checks don't work well enough so weapon bans it is. I mean after all, there is a problem.

 

2) Background checks and methods need to be greatly improved. I mean after all, there is a problem.

 

3) Something has to change and it involves the people who acquire weapons and/or the weapons they do acquire. Even if there are other societal forces at the root cause of gun violence, everyone realizes those forces will never be sufficiently corrected. I mean after all, there is a problem and there is no way we as a country will actually fix television and video game violence and there really is no way that family unit problems will get fixed by our government.

 

4) Problem, what problem? Leave everything just as it is and continue enjoying the nightly news.

 

If it's not one of those 4, what is it?

 

 

Answer me this..

 

Has a gun ever killed someone else by itself (without any intervention)? Once we get that established we can then move to the next step, which is figuring out who is the problem.

 

EDIT: I love your option 3 by the way!

 

Floods have killed many people without any intervention. Lets ban water.

[Landlord]

 

 

 

http://www.thedailysheeple.com/why-more-gun-control-wont-prevent-mass-shootings_122013

 

Charles C. W. Cooke of National Review Online, in his Gun Control Dishonesty article, cited a list of massacres that have occurred in recent years. Here are 12 that happened prior to 2013. Pay close attention to how the weapons used were attained:

• In December of last year, Jacob Tyler Roberts stole a Stag Arms AR-15 semiautomatic rifle and killed two people in Portland, Oregon.
• In September of 2012, Andrew John Engeldinger went on a shooting rampage in Minneapolis after he had been fired. Engeldinger used a Glock 19 handgun that he had bought legally from a licensed dealer. He passed the background check that is mandatory for all commercial sales.
• In August last year, Wade Michael Page killed six members of a Sikh Temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin. Page was an Army veteran, and because his discharge was “general” not “dishonorable” he was legally allowed to buy firearms. This he did, buying the handgun that he used in the shooting at a gun shop in West Allis, Wisconsin, and passing the background checks without a hitch.
• In July, James Holmes killed 12 people at a movie theater in Aurora, Colorado. Over a period of time, Holmes legally purchased two Glock 22 pistols, a Remington 870, and Smith & Wesson M&P15 semi-automatic rifle. All the weapons were purchased from licensed dealers, and Holmes passed background checks on each occasion.
• In May of 2012, Ian Lee Stawicki murdered five people at the Café Racer Espresso in Seattle, Washington. Stawicki legally purchased two .45-caliber handguns for his spree, before which he had legally purchased four other firearms. Stawicki not only passed background checks on all six occasions, but he had a concealed-carry permit too.
• In April 2012, Jake England and Alvin Watts killed three black men in Tulsa, Oklahoma, in an apparently racially motivated attack. The guns they used were legally owned.
• In April of 2012, One L. Goh walked into Oikos University [in Oakland, Calfornia] and murdered seven people. Goh used a .45-caliber semi-automatic handgun and four 10-round magazines, all of which he had purchased legally from a licensed dealer. He passed a background check and abided by California’s ten-day waiting period.
• In February 2012, Thomas “TK” Lane used a .22 caliber handgun to shoot three people dead at Chardon High School in Ohio. Authorities reported that Lane had stolen the .22-caliber handgun from his uncle, who had purchased it legally.
• In October 2011, Scott Evans Dekraai killed eight people in Seal Beach, California. Dekraai used a 9mm Springfield pistol, a .45-caliber Heckler & Koch pistol, and a .44 Magnum Smith & Wesson revolver. All the guns were legally purchased. Just over a year earlier, Dekraai had been under a restraining order that had barred him from possessing firearms. This had expired at the time of the shooting.
• In September of 2011, Eduardo Sencion shot 5 people dead in an International House of Pancakes in Nevada. The rifle Sencion used was not only banned in America, but the company that made it was prohibited from selling or moving its products into the United States. Indeed, nobody knows how Sencion got hold of the weapon. Reports are unclear, but some suggest that the perpetrator illegally converted the weapon from semi-automatic to fully automatic.
• In November of this year, Paul Ciancia murdered a TSA agent at LAX. Ciancia used a .223-caliber Smith & Wesson M&P-15 rifle that he had modified and which was therefore illegal in the state; he brought with him five 30-round magazines, which have been illegal in California since 2000; and he walked happily into an airport, which is by definition a gun-free zone. Authorities told the Huffington Post that Ciancia acquired his guns legally: “He didn’t buy them on the street. He didn’t buy them on the Internet. He bought them from a licensed gun dealer.
• In September, Aaron Alexis killed 12 people at the Navy Yard in Washington D.C. Alexis had patronized a licensed dealer in Virginia and bought a Remington 870 shotgun that is so common that it is even legal in England. He had passed a background check. To commit his crime, he went onto a locked-down, “gun-free” military base, in a city in which carrying firearms is flatly prohibited.

Cooke also referenced two pre-2011 shootings – and last year’s school massacre – that prompted people to “do something”:

 

Jared Loughner, who shot Representative Gabby Giffords and murdered six other people, bought his 9mm Glock pistol legally. Seung-Hui Cho, the Virginia Tech student who was responsible for the most deadly shooting spree in American history, bought a .22 caliber Walther P22 semi-automatic pistol and a 9mm Glock 19 semiautomatic pistol from licensed dealers, and passed background checks on both occasions. And, of course, the guns used at Newtown were legally purchased by the perpetrator’s mother and then stolen by her son.

 

All of these shootings have something in common: none of the weapons used were purchased through an unregulated private sale or at a gun show. Yet, anti-gun activists and some legislators believe (or do they?) that more strict background checks will miraculously prevent additional gun-related tragedies.

Well, this must leave only about 4 options;

 

1) Background checks don't work well enough so weapon bans it is. I mean after all, there is a problem.

 

2) Background checks and methods need to be greatly improved. I mean after all, there is a problem.

 

3) Something has to change and it involves the people who acquire weapons and/or the weapons they do acquire. Even if there are other societal forces at the root cause of gun violence, everyone realizes those forces will never be sufficiently corrected. I mean after all, there is a problem and there is no way we as a country will actually fix television and video game violence and there really is no way that family unit problems will get fixed by our government.

 

4) Problem, what problem? Leave everything just as it is and continue enjoying the nightly news.

 

If it's not one of those 4, what is it?

 

 

Answer me this..

 

Has a gun ever killed someone else by itself (without any intervention)? Once we get that established we can then move to the next step, which is figuring out who is the problem.

 

EDIT: I love your option 3 by the way!

 

Floods have killed many people without any intervention. Lets ban water.

 

 

 

Nukes have never killed someone by themselves without any intervention, so I don't see why I can't own one of these for self defense?

[JJ Husker]

 

 

http://www.thedailysheeple.com/why-more-gun-control-wont-prevent-mass-shootings_122013

 

 

Charles C. W. Cooke of National Review Online, in his Gun Control Dishonesty article, cited a list of massacres that have occurred in recent years. Here are 12 that happened prior to 2013. Pay close attention to how the weapons used were attained:

 

• In December of last year, Jacob Tyler Roberts stole a Stag Arms AR-15 semiautomatic rifle and killed two people in Portland, Oregon.
• In September of 2012, Andrew John Engeldinger went on a shooting rampage in Minneapolis after he had been fired. Engeldinger used a Glock 19 handgun that he had bought legally from a licensed dealer. He passed the background check that is mandatory for all commercial sales.
• In August last year, Wade Michael Page killed six members of a Sikh Temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin. Page was an Army veteran, and because his discharge was “general” not “dishonorable” he was legally allowed to buy firearms. This he did, buying the handgun that he used in the shooting at a gun shop in West Allis, Wisconsin, and passing the background checks without a hitch.
• In July, James Holmes killed 12 people at a movie theater in Aurora, Colorado. Over a period of time, Holmes legally purchased two Glock 22 pistols, a Remington 870, and Smith & Wesson M&P15 semi-automatic rifle. All the weapons were purchased from licensed dealers, and Holmes passed background checks on each occasion.
• In May of 2012, Ian Lee Stawicki murdered five people at the Café Racer Espresso in Seattle, Washington. Stawicki legally purchased two .45-caliber handguns for his spree, before which he had legally purchased four other firearms. Stawicki not only passed background checks on all six occasions, but he had a concealed-carry permit too.
• In April 2012, Jake England and Alvin Watts killed three black men in Tulsa, Oklahoma, in an apparently racially motivated attack. The guns they used were legally owned.
• In April of 2012, One L. Goh walked into Oikos University [in Oakland, Calfornia] and murdered seven people. Goh used a .45-caliber semi-automatic handgun and four 10-round magazines, all of which he had purchased legally from a licensed dealer. He passed a background check and abided by California’s ten-day waiting period.
• In February 2012, Thomas “TK” Lane used a .22 caliber handgun to shoot three people dead at Chardon High School in Ohio. Authorities reported that Lane had stolen the .22-caliber handgun from his uncle, who had purchased it legally.
• In October 2011, Scott Evans Dekraai killed eight people in Seal Beach, California. Dekraai used a 9mm Springfield pistol, a .45-caliber Heckler & Koch pistol, and a .44 Magnum Smith & Wesson revolver. All the guns were legally purchased. Just over a year earlier, Dekraai had been under a restraining order that had barred him from possessing firearms. This had expired at the time of the shooting.
• In September of 2011, Eduardo Sencion shot 5 people dead in an International House of Pancakes in Nevada. The rifle Sencion used was not only banned in America, but the company that made it was prohibited from selling or moving its products into the United States. Indeed, nobody knows how Sencion got hold of the weapon. Reports are unclear, but some suggest that the perpetrator illegally converted the weapon from semi-automatic to fully automatic.
• In November of this year, Paul Ciancia murdered a TSA agent at LAX. Ciancia used a .223-caliber Smith & Wesson M&P-15 rifle that he had modified and which was therefore illegal in the state; he brought with him five 30-round magazines, which have been illegal in California since 2000; and he walked happily into an airport, which is by definition a gun-free zone. Authorities told the Huffington Post that Ciancia acquired his guns legally: “He didn’t buy them on the street. He didn’t buy them on the Internet. He bought them from a licensed gun dealer.
• In September, Aaron Alexis killed 12 people at the Navy Yard in Washington D.C. Alexis had patronized a licensed dealer in Virginia and bought a Remington 870 shotgun that is so common that it is even legal in England. He had passed a background check. To commit his crime, he went onto a locked-down, “gun-free” military base, in a city in which carrying firearms is flatly prohibited.

Cooke also referenced two pre-2011 shootings – and last year’s school massacre – that prompted people to “do something”:

Jared Loughner, who shot Representative Gabby Giffords and murdered six other people, bought his 9mm Glock pistol legally. Seung-Hui Cho, the Virginia Tech student who was responsible for the most deadly shooting spree in American history, bought a .22 caliber Walther P22 semi-automatic pistol and a 9mm Glock 19 semiautomatic pistol from licensed dealers, and passed background checks on both occasions. And, of course, the guns used at Newtown were legally purchased by the perpetrator’s mother and then stolen by her son.

All of these shootings have something in common: none of the weapons used were purchased through an unregulated private sale or at a gun show. Yet, anti-gun activists and some legislators believe (or do they?) that more strict background checks will miraculously prevent additional gun-related tragedies.

Well, this must leave only about 4 options;

1) Background checks don't work well enough so weapon bans it is. I mean after all, there is a problem.

2) Background checks and methods need to be greatly improved. I mean after all, there is a problem.

3) Something has to change and it involves the people who acquire weapons and/or the weapons they do acquire. Even if there are other societal forces at the root cause of gun violence, everyone realizes those forces will never be sufficiently corrected. I mean after all, there is a problem and there is no way we as a country will actually fix television and video game violence and there really is no way that family unit problems will get fixed by our government.

4) Problem, what problem? Leave everything just as it is and continue enjoying the nightly news.

If it's not one of those 4, what is it?

Answer me this..

 

Has a gun ever killed someone else by itself (without any intervention)? Once we get that established we can then move to the next step, which is figuring out who is the problem.

 

EDIT: I love your option 3 by the way!

I seriously doubt a gun has ever killed anyone all on its own. Maybe if you count accidentally dropping one and it going off or if you count allowing young children to access them but, no, for the way you intended the question, a gun hasn't killed anyone on it's own. However, certain types of guns surely have accounted for elevated casualty numbers in many situations. For the sake of argument, let's say 8 dead instead of only 5, just to pull a couple numbers out of thin air.

 

I don't think you actually read my option #3 very closely. I'm not going to argue that societal problems don't greatly contribute to the problem. And I also won't argue that fixing those societal and family unit problems wouldn't greatly help. BUT, if you think solving those issues is the key and only option, then you really don't want the problem fixed because that is called living in an unrealistic and unachievable utopia. We can't simply sit back and do nothing and hope the problem gets better and blame some unsolvabe issues for the reasons the problem exists. Even you have to acknowledge that there is little to nothing a free country can do or implement that will solve those types of problems. So, assuming you realize there is a problem, what are your realistic and possible solutions? It's not realistic to just stop trying and simply blame other unsolvable issues.

[zoogs]

"People, Not Guns":

To not allowing certain weapons of killing would be the enslavement of a free people to the shackles of tyranny.

Better instead to have the government install a surveillance net, control movies and video game content, and profile anyone who might be deemed "suspicious", to keep everyone docile and in line.

#Freedom?

[HuskerShark]

"People, Not Guns":

To not allowing certain weapons of killing would be the enslavement of a free people to the shackles of tyranny.

 

Better instead to have the government install a surveillance net, control movies and video game content, and profile anyone who might be deemed "suspicious", to keep everyone docile and in line.

 

#Freedom?

I choose none of the above. And it doesn't have to be one or the other. That's just the way Obama would have it.

[zoogs]

None of the above:

- Dangerous guns are freely available

- To any joker who wants to try something.

- Newton, Orlando, Aurora, et. al are features, not bugs.

[huskerfan2000]

 

 

 

http://www.thedailysheeple.com/why-more-gun-control-wont-prevent-mass-shootings_122013

 

Charles C. W. Cooke of National Review Online, in his Gun Control Dishonesty article, cited a list of massacres that have occurred in recent years. Here are 12 that happened prior to 2013. Pay close attention to how the weapons used were attained:

• In December of last year, Jacob Tyler Roberts stole a Stag Arms AR-15 semiautomatic rifle and killed two people in Portland, Oregon.
• In September of 2012, Andrew John Engeldinger went on a shooting rampage in Minneapolis after he had been fired. Engeldinger used a Glock 19 handgun that he had bought legally from a licensed dealer. He passed the background check that is mandatory for all commercial sales.
• In August last year, Wade Michael Page killed six members of a Sikh Temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin. Page was an Army veteran, and because his discharge was “general” not “dishonorable” he was legally allowed to buy firearms. This he did, buying the handgun that he used in the shooting at a gun shop in West Allis, Wisconsin, and passing the background checks without a hitch.
• In July, James Holmes killed 12 people at a movie theater in Aurora, Colorado. Over a period of time, Holmes legally purchased two Glock 22 pistols, a Remington 870, and Smith & Wesson M&P15 semi-automatic rifle. All the weapons were purchased from licensed dealers, and Holmes passed background checks on each occasion.
• In May of 2012, Ian Lee Stawicki murdered five people at the Café Racer Espresso in Seattle, Washington. Stawicki legally purchased two .45-caliber handguns for his spree, before which he had legally purchased four other firearms. Stawicki not only passed background checks on all six occasions, but he had a concealed-carry permit too.
• In April 2012, Jake England and Alvin Watts killed three black men in Tulsa, Oklahoma, in an apparently racially motivated attack. The guns they used were legally owned.
• In April of 2012, One L. Goh walked into Oikos University [in Oakland, Calfornia] and murdered seven people. Goh used a .45-caliber semi-automatic handgun and four 10-round magazines, all of which he had purchased legally from a licensed dealer. He passed a background check and abided by California’s ten-day waiting period.
• In February 2012, Thomas “TK” Lane used a .22 caliber handgun to shoot three people dead at Chardon High School in Ohio. Authorities reported that Lane had stolen the .22-caliber handgun from his uncle, who had purchased it legally.
• In October 2011, Scott Evans Dekraai killed eight people in Seal Beach, California. Dekraai used a 9mm Springfield pistol, a .45-caliber Heckler & Koch pistol, and a .44 Magnum Smith & Wesson revolver. All the guns were legally purchased. Just over a year earlier, Dekraai had been under a restraining order that had barred him from possessing firearms. This had expired at the time of the shooting.
• In September of 2011, Eduardo Sencion shot 5 people dead in an International House of Pancakes in Nevada. The rifle Sencion used was not only banned in America, but the company that made it was prohibited from selling or moving its products into the United States. Indeed, nobody knows how Sencion got hold of the weapon. Reports are unclear, but some suggest that the perpetrator illegally converted the weapon from semi-automatic to fully automatic.
• In November of this year, Paul Ciancia murdered a TSA agent at LAX. Ciancia used a .223-caliber Smith & Wesson M&P-15 rifle that he had modified and which was therefore illegal in the state; he brought with him five 30-round magazines, which have been illegal in California since 2000; and he walked happily into an airport, which is by definition a gun-free zone. Authorities told the Huffington Post that Ciancia acquired his guns legally: “He didn’t buy them on the street. He didn’t buy them on the Internet. He bought them from a licensed gun dealer.
• In September, Aaron Alexis killed 12 people at the Navy Yard in Washington D.C. Alexis had patronized a licensed dealer in Virginia and bought a Remington 870 shotgun that is so common that it is even legal in England. He had passed a background check. To commit his crime, he went onto a locked-down, “gun-free” military base, in a city in which carrying firearms is flatly prohibited.

Cooke also referenced two pre-2011 shootings – and last year’s school massacre – that prompted people to “do something”:

Jared Loughner, who shot Representative Gabby Giffords and murdered six other people, bought his 9mm Glock pistol legally. Seung-Hui Cho, the Virginia Tech student who was responsible for the most deadly shooting spree in American history, bought a .22 caliber Walther P22 semi-automatic pistol and a 9mm Glock 19 semiautomatic pistol from licensed dealers, and passed background checks on both occasions. And, of course, the guns used at Newtown were legally purchased by the perpetrator’s mother and then stolen by her son.

All of these shootings have something in common: none of the weapons used were purchased through an unregulated private sale or at a gun show. Yet, anti-gun activists and some legislators believe (or do they?) that more strict background checks will miraculously prevent additional gun-related tragedies.

Well, this must leave only about 4 options;

1) Background checks don't work well enough so weapon bans it is. I mean after all, there is a problem.

2) Background checks and methods need to be greatly improved. I mean after all, there is a problem.

3) Something has to change and it involves the people who acquire weapons and/or the weapons they do acquire. Even if there are other societal forces at the root cause of gun violence, everyone realizes those forces will never be sufficiently corrected. I mean after all, there is a problem and there is no way we as a country will actually fix television and video game violence and there really is no way that family unit problems will get fixed by our government.

4) Problem, what problem? Leave everything just as it is and continue enjoying the nightly news.

If it's not one of those 4, what is it?

Answer me this..

 

Has a gun ever killed someone else by itself (without any intervention)? Once we get that established we can then move to the next step, which is figuring out who is the problem.

 

EDIT: I love your option 3 by the way!

I seriously doubt a gun has ever killed anyone all on its own. Maybe if you count accidentally dropping one and it going off or if you count allowing young children to access them but, no, for the way you intended the question, a gun hasn't killed anyone on it's own. However, certain types of guns surely have accounted for elevated casualty numbers in many situations. For the sake of argument, let's say 8 dead instead of only 5, just to pull a couple numbers out of thin air.

 

I don't think you actually read my option #3 very closely. I'm not going to argue that societal problems don't greatly contribute to the problem. And I also won't argue that fixing those societal and family unit problems wouldn't greatly help. BUT, if you think solving those issues is the key and only option, then you really don't want the problem fixed because that is called living in an unrealistic and unachievable utopia. We can't simply sit back and do nothing and hope the problem gets better and blame some unsolvabe issues for the reasons the problem exists. Even you have to acknowledge that there is little to nothing a free country can do or implement that will solve those types of problems. So, assuming you realize there is a problem, what are your realistic and possible solutions? It's not realistic to just stop trying and simply blame other unsolvable issues.

 

I was not talking about accidental shootings/killings, because that is once again human intervention!

 

I read you option 3 and I understood what you were saying and I disagree. Fixing society it would make more of a difference than throwing out more gun control and hoping that works. The bold kinds of gives away the agenda... which you admit societal issues play a factor, but yet you are leading back to more gun control. One thing you don't say is if you think there should be a combination of changes, or just more gun control. I am reading this to mean you want just more gun control.. I could be wrong though

 

What you don't want to realize is you will never stop someone from killing another person, or multiple persons. You just won't, because this isn't a gun issue it is a human issue! and before another poster jumps in, no I am not advocating doing nothing. i advocate for reducing the level or violence in movies, music.. Oh and the biggest one, abortion.

[huskerfan2000]

 

"People, Not Guns":

To not allowing certain weapons of killing would be the enslavement of a free people to the shackles of tyranny.

Better instead to have the government install a surveillance net, control movies and video game content, and profile anyone who might be deemed "suspicious", to keep everyone docile and in line.

#Freedom?

 

 

What constitutional right do you have to extreme violence in movies, music, or any other media? Oh yeah, none!

 

but let me get this straight, you want to keep your violence, but bitch complain about violence when it comes to guns? They have a word for thinking like that..