Gun Control

[JJ Husker]

We tried fellas but there is no getting through to people who won't begin to look at things in a rational manner with an open mind. Life is too short, no sense wasting it attempting the apparently impossible.

[TAKODA]

We tried fellas but there is no getting through to people who won't begin to look at things in a rational manner with an open mind. Life is too short, no sense wasting it attempting the apparently impossible.

 

 

JJ, as much as it pains those of us who are pro gun (but willing) to remove or prevent the privilege to own or buy guns from those who shouldn't have them, this really needs to be addressed by all people nationally. The NRA has their mindset and their are those who will fall in that camp, but there are also responsible gun owners who see we need to reel in the carte blanche mentality that we are dealing with now. It needs to be a give an take and if no one is willing to give a little, then we will remain where we are and subject to anything that comes our way. IMO, the Orlando deal was not a deal that happened because of the gun, but the acquisition of said gun should have been prevented. Failure to communicate and follow up logically by those involved, caused that nightmare.

[Landlord]

http://www.romans322.com/daily-death-rate-statistics.php

 

 

 

You realize that like, almost everything on your list have either been declining in violence in correlation with more research money or more strict laws, or are hotly contested/debated and still have plenty of restrictions and deterrents in place?

 

Abortion gets "zero" attention? Really? Nobody ever talks about how abortion is bad? Ever?

[zoogs]

get your facts straight.. CDC was not banned from doing anything.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/cdc-ban-gun-research-caused-lasting-damage/story?id=18909347

If I recall the "facts" correctly, in 1996 the CDC was stripped the exact amount of funding spent on gun control the previous year, by Congress, because the NRA wasn't happy with their research.

 

That fear of funding sanctions continues today, despite a 2012 Obama executive order that they do gun control research, as Congress continues to block funding allocated for gun violence research. That article raises the possibility of agencies becoming emboldened by the executive order, but they still need the cash. And the fundamental issue remains:

 

“It’s odd,” Swanson said, “but if you’re trying to do policy-informed research, you run into the fact that there are elected officials who don’t want to know the answer.”

It seems you take as much care with getting facts straight as you do with capitalization: either you aren't that interested, or you're actively opposed to the practice.

[Enhance]

 

 

http://www.romans322.com/daily-death-rate-statistics.php

 

 

 

What's the point?

I think everyone realizes that there are numerous causes that take more lives than guns.

BUT, all those other things also receive huge amounts of attention, effort, and money to reduce them.

Aren't all preventable losses of life worth trying to save?

 

 

The first on that list gets zero attention and is considered a "choice".. so your comment is not true.. that said, we should try to save all we can. How about we start at the top of the list.. since that is the most troubling of all. While we are at it, lets not throw crap at the wall and hope it sticks. No current gun control messages, proposed or already in place, would have stopped the Orlando shooter. What does that tell you?

It tells us perhaps we could do a better job of vetting potential gun owners before they do something terrible like murder dozens of people in a nightclub.

 

[Enhance]

 

http://www.romans322.com/daily-death-rate-statistics.php

 

 

 

You realize that like, almost everything on your list have either been declining in violence in correlation with more research money or more strict laws, or are hotly contested/debated and still have plenty of restrictions and deterrents in place?

 

Abortion gets "zero" attention? Really? Nobody ever talks about how abortion is bad? Ever?

 

The problem with his posts is a problem with all rational debate - some people try to cloud the issue by disguising it in one hand and flashing something shiny in the other. His posts also cherry pick which points he wants to address while largely ignoring a lot of other pointed, rational criticisms. Several of us have directly contradicted and destabilized his arguments, so then he attempts another route with equally shaky footholds.

 

Meanwhile, ladies and gents, we're up to 6,355 gun deaths this year.

[knapplc]

[TAKODA]

[knapplc]

I explained why that would happen on the very first page.

[Enhance]

I explained why that would happen on the very first page.

I don't look at this thread as a way to persuade pro-gun people. Mixed into the rabble rabble has been decent discussion, particularly some methods for approaching gun violence.

 

I'm also curious about a question you posed earlier - do most of us here at least agree the CDC should be able to conduct in-depth, analytical research into gun violence? At the very least, it would give us government funded research to base policy opinions on.

[ZRod]

I explained why that would happen on the very first page.

[JJ Husker]

 

We tried fellas but there is no getting through to people who won't begin to look at things in a rational manner with an open mind. Life is too short, no sense wasting it attempting the apparently impossible.

 

 

JJ, as much as it pains those of us who are pro gun (but willing) to remove or prevent the privilege to own or buy guns from those who shouldn't have them, this really needs to be addressed by all people nationally. The NRA has their mindset and their are those who will fall in that camp, but there are also responsible gun owners who see we need to reel in the carte blanche mentality that we are dealing with now. It needs to be a give an take and if no one is willing to give a little, then we will remain where we are and subject to anything that comes our way. IMO, the Orlando deal was not a deal that happened because of the gun, but the acquisition of said gun should have been prevented. Failure to communicate and follow up logically by those involved, caused that nightmare.

 

I totally agree with this. I am about as pro gun as can be but even I realize that there are flaws in the current system. I would like to see efforts focused on keeping guns out of the wrong hands, primarily because a gun without anyone using it is just a hunk of metal. Although, there are some gun capabilities that just plain aren't needed by most persons and I believe those types of weapons need to be heavily regulated and have limited access. I don't think anything is going to prevent all needless deaths but surely we can improve that number with some sensible solutions that help keep them out of the wrong hands. No rational person would ever argue that terrorists or criminals or mentally unstable people should have guns. Unfortunately there are irrational people willing to do whatever it takes to prevent adopting any measure that would help accomplish that. It's completely disingenuous to simply say "criminals will always find a way to get guns" and "guns don't kill people, people do" and use that as a basis for doing jack sh#t about the problem.

[TAKODA]

 

 

We tried fellas but there is no getting through to people who won't begin to look at things in a rational manner with an open mind. Life is too short, no sense wasting it attempting the apparently impossible.

 

 

JJ, as much as it pains those of us who are pro gun (but willing) to remove or prevent the privilege to own or buy guns from those who shouldn't have them, this really needs to be addressed by all people nationally. The NRA has their mindset and their are those who will fall in that camp, but there are also responsible gun owners who see we need to reel in the carte blanche mentality that we are dealing with now. It needs to be a give an take and if no one is willing to give a little, then we will remain where we are and subject to anything that comes our way. IMO, the Orlando deal was not a deal that happened because of the gun, but the acquisition of said gun should have been prevented. Failure to communicate and follow up logically by those involved, caused that nightmare.

 

I totally agree with this. I am about as pro gun as can be but even I realize that there are flaws in the current system. I would like to see efforts focused on keeping guns out of the wrong hands, primarily because a gun without anyone using it is just a hunk of metal. Although, there are some gun capabilities that just plain aren't needed by most persons and I believe those types of weapons need to be heavily regulated and have limited access. I don't think anything is going to prevent all needless deaths but surely we can improve that number with some sensible solutions that help keep them out of the wrong hands. No rational person would ever argue that terrorists or criminals or mentally unstable people should have guns. Unfortunately there are irrational people willing to do whatever it takes to prevent adopting any measure that would help accomplish that. It's completely disingenuous to simply say "criminals will always find a way to get guns" and "guns don't kill people, people do" and use that as a basis for doing jack sh#t about the problem.

 

 

+1 So, that makes (2) of us pro gun guys here at HB, who are willing to a point, to find some solutions to keep the guns out of the hands of those who should not have them. I will say one thing though based on your comment. Criminals will get their guns no matter what changes are made to prevent the legal acquisition of guns through the system. I have seen it, dealt with it and recognize that there is little anyone can do (by virtue of laws), to prevent it. I say that however, without linking it and throwing up my hands and saying just because that is so, we should not make obtaining a gun so easy that anyone from anywhere can do it.

 

Although I can't provide statistics, I also am not 100% sure that those stating if we had more people legally carrying (cleared to buy and carry), that some of these incidents could have been stopped or the consequences reduced.

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

 

 

 

 

We tried fellas but there is no getting through to people who won't begin to look at things in a rational manner with an open mind. Life is too short, no sense wasting it attempting the apparently impossible.

 

JJ, as much as it pains those of us who are pro gun (but willing) to remove or prevent the privilege to own or buy guns from those who shouldn't have them, this really needs to be addressed by all people nationally. The NRA has their mindset and their are those who will fall in that camp, but there are also responsible gun owners who see we need to reel in the carte blanche mentality that we are dealing with now. It needs to be a give an take and if no one is willing to give a little, then we will remain where we are and subject to anything that comes our way. IMO, the Orlando deal was not a deal that happened because of the gun, but the acquisition of said gun should have been prevented. Failure to communicate and follow up logically by those involved, caused that nightmare.

I totally agree with this. I am about as pro gun as can be but even I realize that there are flaws in the current system. I would like to see efforts focused on keeping guns out of the wrong hands, primarily because a gun without anyone using it is just a hunk of metal. Although, there are some gun capabilities that just plain aren't needed by most persons and I believe those types of weapons need to be heavily regulated and have limited access. I don't think anything is going to prevent all needless deaths but surely we can improve that number with some sensible solutions that help keep them out of the wrong hands. No rational person would ever argue that terrorists or criminals or mentally unstable people should have guns. Unfortunately there are irrational people willing to do whatever it takes to prevent adopting any measure that would help accomplish that. It's completely disingenuous to simply say "criminals will always find a way to get guns" and "guns don't kill people, people do" and use that as a basis for doing jack sh#t about the problem.

+1 So, that makes (2) of us pro gun guys here at HB, who are willing to a point, to find some solutions to keep the guns out of the hands of those who should not have them. I will say one thing though based on your comment. Criminals will get their guns no matter what changes are made to prevent the legal acquisition of guns through the system. I have seen it, dealt with it and recognize that there is little anyone can do (by virtue of laws), to prevent it. I say that however, without linking it and throwing up my hands and saying just because that is so, we should not make obtaining a gun so easy that anyone from anywhere can do it.

 

Although I can't provide statistics, I also am not 100% sure that those stating if we had more people legally carrying (cleared to buy and carry), that some of these incidents could have been stopped or the consequences reduced.

3

[It'sNotAFakeID]

Cut it with the abortion talk, huskerfan2000. This is a thread on gun control and thus any post should relate to gun control legislation. Do we need more? Is what we have good enough? Why? What are other contributing factors leading to this spree of mass shootings (you mention violent media). But enough with the abortion talk.

 

No amount of abortion legislation is going to curtail gun violence and no amount of gun legislation is going to curtail abortions. They. Are. Completely. Unrelated. Our gun problem doesn't go away because we ban abortions.

 

Talking about abortions derails this thread, which is against board rules.