Dems Rebuild

[BigRedBuster]

36 minutes ago, zoogs said:

Wrong.

 

Taking advantage of people's inclination to compromise, or to see compromise as reasonable, is what allows awful people to get anywhere. You can't compromise with people divorced from reality and bent on self-enrichment at the expense of others without encouraging them to go even further and see what more they can get away with. How much more they can push the "center" towards their side.

 

 

Funny.....the exact same thing is said by so many of my republican friends. 

[zoogs]

Yep!

 

There are staunch fascists and staunch anti-fascists. Important to be able to see the sides differently. Some things are worth taking a stand on.

[Danny Bateman]

1 hour ago, BigRedBuster said:

Funny.....the exact same thing is said by so many of my republican friends. 

 

Do you really feel the Tea Partiers or the broader GOP are negotiating in good faith? I sure don't.

 

The same people who b*tched about debt and deficit for 8 years, only to add $1.5T+ to it this week in the blink of an eye?

 

The same ones who blocked Merrick Garland to "let the voters decide" along with countless other judicial appointments on "principle," but rushed that same tax bill after they lost a Senate seat and are rushing to fill as many of those vacant judicial seats to remake the federal judiciary in their image (with the boobs Trump is nominating, no less!)?

 

The same ones passing off deep cuts for millionaires and corporations as great for workers?

They're just not. They're not operating in good faith, ever.

 

Not compromising on the part of a bunch of frauds with bad intentions is how we got here. I have no interest in compromising with any of them. Get me more John McCain's and Jeff Flake's in Congress and I'd love to. Unfortunately, those types are heading for the exits.

 

[BigRedBuster]

The fact is, this mess got this way with people who won’t compromise. 

 

Now, if we all take compromise off the table I might as well move to Europe and enjoy the beaches in the south of France because this country experiment is done. 

[zoogs]

You're clinging strongly to the position that compromise should never be taken off the table in the face of anything. That's a flawed calculus.

 

Compromise is Republicans working with Trump. It's not a principle to be worshipped regardless of circumstance. There is zero room for compromise with fascism and authoritarianism. You have to be uncompromising. Don't get hung up on the word -- or at least, don't confuse that with defending American principles.

[Danny Bateman]

@BigRedBuster

Compromise is off the table with this particular group of individuals. If the GOP wants to send some more responsible, honest people to Congress, I'd welcome it & I'd look for more compromise.

If I'm a Dem elected, I'm not compromising with the Paul Ryan's and the Mitch McConnell's and the Freedom Caucus's of the world. They're dishonest, corrupt, craven little men who elevate power above all else. They're both willing to tolerate Trump's horrible antics if it means advancing their agenda. Trump is leading them in governance by suckerpunch.

Frankly, I'm proud that the Democrats don't abet Trump & I'm ready for them to take their gloves off and sock the GOP back. I'm tired of the GOP breaking all the rules and norms and no one punishing them for it.

 

Have you heard of the Overton window?  Many on the left already feel it has slowly shifted much too far to the right. Compromising with the current crop of far-right zealots the GOP has sent to Washington isn't going to shift it back to the left at all. It's going to slowly continue ceding ground to the right. For liberal or progressive policies to gain any significant ground in the federal government, Dems are going to have to hold resolute in what they believe and make the case that what the GOP is offering isn't good enough.

[Big Red 40]

In order to compromise there needs to be common ground. There are large fundamental differences in philosophy , policy, and general attitude between the two parties. As a Democrat i don't want my party to compromise with the GOP on anything.My solution would be  to win all the elections possible, and put the right people in place to force our agenda. Relying on cooperation from the GOP is not a good strategy, as they've proven they wont give it. 

Edited December 22, 2017 by Big Red 40

[zoogs]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/01/02/democrats-arent-just-running-against-trump-why-do-people-think-they-are/?utm_term=.e618888005ae

 

^I agree with this. And this is what frustrates me oftentimes about these discussions. 

 

Btw, if you guys don't already, I really recommend Pod Save America. It's a good listen; really, all the Crooked Media stuff is. Advocacy for the 'rebuild' effort.

[Danny Bateman]

6 hours ago, zoogs said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/01/02/democrats-arent-just-running-against-trump-why-do-people-think-they-are/?utm_term=.e618888005ae

 

^I agree with this. And this is what frustrates me oftentimes about these discussions. 

 

Btw, if you guys don't already, I really recommend Pod Save America. It's a good listen; really, all the Crooked Media stuff is. Advocacy for the 'rebuild' effort.

 

x2. Anybody with halfway liberal beliefs or just an open mind should check out their pod(s). Greta stuff from a left of center perspective. They've got pods dedicated to a wide range of topics that feature a wide variety of voices from across the political spectrum. Everyone can find something they like. Quite the repertoire they're building. Can't recommend their content highly enough.

[Landlord]

11 hours ago, zoogs said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/01/02/democrats-arent-just-running-against-trump-why-do-people-think-they-are/?utm_term=.e618888005ae

 

^I agree with this. And this is what frustrates me oftentimes about these discussions. 

 

Btw, if you guys don't already, I really recommend Pod Save America. It's a good listen; really, all the Crooked Media stuff is. Advocacy for the 'rebuild' effort.

 

 

 

This seems to fly in the face of your admonishment of many posters expressing hope for a better, self-reflective democratic party offering earlier in this thread.

[zoogs]

I feel like you either aren't reading past headlines or don't care about content as much as slick one-liners.

[Danny Bateman]

Very interesting story for people who value independence & don't go for one party of the other.

 

The state of Alaska is turning itself bluer by... going outside the Democratic party & bringing in fresh new voices who are getting things done. They mention that this could serve as a template at the state level in red areas all across the U.S.

 

Very good read, IMO.

 

 

[RedDenver]

8 hours ago, dudeguyy said:

Very interesting story for people who value independence & don't go for one party of the other.

 

The state of Alaska is turning itself bluer by... going outside the Democratic party & bringing in fresh new voices who are getting things done. They mention that this could serve as a template at the state level in red areas all across the U.S.

 

Very good read, IMO.

 

 

Great article. Gives me hope that we as Americans can eventually start working together in politics again.

[BigRedBuster]

 

[RedDenver]

An interesting article regarding populism and the lack of self-criticism by liberal political parties: Failures of inference: liberalism and contemporary populism

 

From the intro of the article:

Quote

It is a measure of the abject inadequacy of liberal thought today that all it can bring to the political arena, and to public discourse generally, is high indignation at the tawdriness of what it dismissively describes as ‘populism’. Even when, on occasion, some of the more serious liberal ideologues try to do better, there is a tendency to produce a pattern of analysis that goes roughly like this. They observe everywhere the dissatisfaction of ordinary people (by ordinary people I just mean working and workless people away from the centres of power and privilege). They observe too — with dismay — that these dissatisfactions result in alarming electoral decisions that succumb to the dubious appeal of ‘populist’ politicians, who will often only increase their dissatisfaction. They allow themselves no good account (certainly no self-critical account) of how and why this has come to pass. They, thus, draw the conclusion that the fault lies in the people themselves for (at best) their gullibility or (at worst) their xenophobia or racism or communalism... And so, finally, they rest with the hope that the decencies of their own liberal orthodoxies (whether it is the Clintonite Democratic Party — which includes the arch Clintonite, Barack Obama — or the ‘Remainers’ in Britain, or the Congress technocratic elite represented in the past by Manmohan Singh and his economic advisers) will one day return to win the day. It never occurs to them through these smug cogitations that this analysis has no bite, hardly even a jaw.

 

EDIT: To be clear, the article is an opinion piece that I'm not convinced of all the intermediate arguments, but I think the conclusion is correct:

Quote

When [ordinary working people] feel the whole game is rigged, they want to upturn the whole board on which the game is being played — even if that means voting for extremist forms of nationalism bordering on fascism.

 

Edited January 22, 2018 by RedDenver