"Merry Christmas" vs. "Happy Holidays"

[Enhance]

 

I think you could look at it as both being polite and subtly reinforcing Christianity all in the same moment.

 

Merry Christmas literally means the celebration of the birth of Christ but has morphed into a saying of good will and fortune around the celebration.

Very much so to the highlighted.

 

It's still sometimes a mystery to me why I, a nonreligious person, would wish the celebration of the birth of Christ to others. I don't mean it in that sense, but you phrased it so well. It's absolutely a consequence of the degree to which Christianity has been subtly reinforced in these highly visible aspects of American life.

 

There is a not so insignificant segment of the population, I think, that needs this to be the case. And so when the means traditionally used to deploy this reinforcement begin to recede -- companies adding in some neutral holiday-themed coffee cups to go along with their still massive assortment of Christmas fare; public schools that stay away from religious language by policy; people that choose to say "Happy Holidays" instead -- it actually feels quite threatening to that ideal, and they'll fight back.

I think you're spot on in the last paragraph. Personally, I'm in no way threatened by people saying Happy Holidays to me even though I'm a Lutheran, and I say Happy Holidays to everyone unless I know they're a Christian. But, there are people (even in my own family) who are trying to carry the torch of 'Making Merry Christmas Great Again...' or something like that.

 

I actually despise religion influencing non-religious aspects of our society, as a general rule, including government. I never use my religion as a crutch for being a good person and instead believe humanity as a whole should be decent to one another. But, that's a topic for another thread.

 

More on topic - I think (due in no small part to Home Alone... kidding...) that Merry Christmas nowadays mostly means wishing someone well and a happy Christmas, and I really believe the religious aspect of it doesn't even register for a lot of people.

[zoogs]

The point I was trying to make was that I think what a person says should have more to do with them than who it is directed at.

This probably gets to the heart of the issue: when you say season's greetings to others, are you saying it for their sake (to wish them well) or for yours (as an expression of your religion)?

 

The holiday season belongs to everyone. It's the time of year where schools are off and families come together as we all bid the past year adieu and usher in the new one. (Incidentally, I think the organizing of our days off is quite a secular notion). In that context I think there's a strong argument for saying these things for other people's sake.

 

I mean, again, it's not like can't *also* express your religion. But that shouldn't be confused with genuine well wishing in a time of year everyone gets to enjoy as a holiday. The latter is not hard to do, so it's hard to accept any protestations to the contrary. Everyone knows how to do it.

 

You can even say, "Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays" in one shot!

[JJ Husker]

 

 

 

 

So now we need to assume what religion a person is based on their skin color, their attire and what they look like, and then wish them well for whatever holiday we assume they celebrate?

 

Or you could say "Happy Holidays".

This ^

And JJ, I don't see why that would be your reply after reading my post. Nowhere did I say anyone should say Happy Hanakkuh to a stranger they think is Jewish. In fact - see the Kwanzaa example I used earlier.

I said telling someone who's clearly Jewish (because they're wearing a yamulke) Merry Christmas is a little weird. I didn't say anything about telling them Happy Hanakkuh. I did say some people of other religions have told me Merry Christmas.

Also, it bears repeating that we're talking about strangers. Not your cousin. It also bears repeating I'm not saying anyone should be offended by any of this. Mostly what I'm thinking about with my comments is there is nothing wrong with schools or businesses instructing their employees to say Happy Holidays.

I just don't think many normal people in a situation to wish someone well would say Merry Christmas to someone in a yamulke or tell someone wearing a cross to enjoy Diwali. Therefore it's not wrong for employers to give instructions to their employees.

As I said in an earlier post, some customers flip out over even less. Better to err on the side of caution. It doesn't mean these companies are attacking Christmas. Which is the idea that seems to ruffle people's feathers.

I guess I do have a little bit of a problem with the secular Happy Holidays greeting. I mean there are reasons for all these holidays and none of them are secular. It doesn't offend me but I see no reason for me to use that generic greeting. If I was an atheist or didn't practice any religion, then I would probably go that way, but I'm not so I don't.

Honest question - can you explain what you mean by the bolded? I think everybody is on the same page that these holidays have religious foundations. Are you just reinforcing that?

 

I won't try to dissuade you from saying Merry Christmas so long as you see why people might use Happy Holidays instead, which you say you have a little bit of a problem with. Speaking only for myself, I say Happy Holidays because:

 

- I'm Lutheran, but others aren't

- I define saying "Merry Christmas" as the literal meaning of celebrating Jesus' birth while also wishing someone good will. I don't separate those two things

- "Happy Holidays" also encompasses the New Year celebration, which almost everyone celebrates whether they're religious or not

 

For me, it has nothing to do with offending people or not offending people.

I think I've covered this but...

 

I don't have any problem at all with any way another person chooses to say it. Happy Holidays is just peachy with me. I just prefer to say Merry Christmas because that is what feels comfortable for me. I'm not trying to reinforce to others that I see it as a Christian holiday or impose my beliefs on anyone. However, I am a little bit sensitive towards any effort to expunge Christmas from the lexicon so I guess part of the reason I use Merry Christmas is to remind myself why this time of year is different than others. It is very easy to get wrapped in shopping and lights and all these other things and forgot why we are doing it or what we are really celebrating. Sorry if it offends anyone but it wouldn't be the huge shopping season etc. that it is without the birth of Christ as the reason for all the commotion. I guess it's just my way of trying to prevent the reason for season getting completely forgotten.

[Ratt Mhule]

Jesus was born in the spring according to many bible historians. Christmas is a pagan holiday celebrating the winter solstice. So no, Jesus is not the only reason for the season. Christians do not have a monoploy on the whole month.

[Moiraine]

Jesus was born in the spring according to many bible historians. Christmas is a pagan holiday celebrating the winter solstice. So no, Jesus is not the only reason for the season. Christians do not have a monoploy on the whole month.

 

I don't think that's too relevant. People celebrate Jesus' birth on Dec. 25 whether it's the correct date or not.

[JJ Husker]

Jesus was born in the spring according to many bible historians. Christmas is a pagan holiday celebrating the winter solstice. So no, Jesus is not the only reason for the season. Christians do not have a monoploy on the whole month.

Who said they have a monopoly on the whole month?

Who said Jesus' birth was the "only" reason for the season? But, do you really think without Christmas the season (between Thanksgiving to just after New Years) would be anywhere near the event it is?

And it doesn't really matter when something happened 2000 years ago, December 25th is when people have chosen to celebrate it so it is when it is.

 

See what I mean....Doesn't matter what a person does or says, somebody's gonna get bent or take it the wrong way.

[JJ Husker]

 

Jesus was born in the spring according to many bible historians. Christmas is a pagan holiday celebrating the winter solstice. So no, Jesus is not the only reason for the season. Christians do not have a monoploy on the whole month.

I don't think that's too relevant. People celebrate Jesus' birth on Dec. 25 whether it's the correct date or not.

I think somebody didn't get the Red Ryder BB gun they wanted as a child.

[zoogs]

I find the protest that this is some kind of damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't, tricky to navigate situation hard to square.

 

There's really a very narrow range of positions that, at least here, seem to get anyone criticized. Namely, repudiating "happy holidays", insisting on not using it, and suggesting that those who don't like this stance are the ones with the problems.

 

Is that the Christmas spirit this season is all about? I mean, you must know that it's a time of year where everyone is celebrating the holidays. I completely understand saying "Merry Christmas." I don't understand refusing to acknowledge the whole of the season.

 

However, I am a little bit sensitive towards any effort to expunge Christmas from the lexicon...

First, I don't think there is any expunging going on. And if this is the national, public lexicon, then why should it continue to be dominated by Christian sayings? Language and culture should reflect the diversity of society, and those parts of it which only serve to reinforce one religion above others meet with what I think are fair challenges.

[AFhusker]

 

Jesus was born in the spring according to many bible historians. Christmas is a pagan holiday celebrating the winter solstice. So no, Jesus is not the only reason for the season. Christians do not have a monoploy on the whole month.

Who said they have a monopoly on the whole month?

Who said Jesus' birth was the "only" reason for the season? But, do you really think without Christmas the season (between Thanksgiving to just after New Years) would be anywhere near the event it is?

And it doesn't really matter when something happened 2000 years ago, December 25th is when people have chosen to celebrate it so it is when it is.

 

See what I mean....Doesn't matter what a person does or says, somebody's gonna get bent or take it the wrong way.

 

At some point you just say what you think is appropriate. I say both with no rhyme or reason, I probably say Happy Holidays more so just because it includes both holidays, not because someone might get offended by saying Merry Christmas. I have never been a really big fan of Christmas mainly because I don't like the commercialization of it, but if someone says it to me, then I will acknowledge them and say "Same to you" as it isn't a big deal to me. With that said, I don't like it when people are told what they can't and can't say because it offends someone. That is their right to say either one as neither are meant to offend anyone, they are meant to wish people well during this time of year and if someone gets offended by one used as it is meant to be said, then they need to get over it.

[JJ Husker]

I find the protest that this is some kind of damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't, tricky to navigate situation hard to square.There's really a very narrow range of positions that, at least here, seem to get anyone criticized. Namely, repudiating "happy holidays", insisting on not using it, and suggesting that those who don't like this stance are the ones with the problems.Is that the Christmas spirit this season is all about? I mean, you must know that it's a time of year where everyone is celebrating the holidays. I completely understand saying "Merry Christmas." I don't understand refusing to acknowledge the whole of the season.

However, I am a little bit sensitive towards any effort to expunge Christmas from the lexicon...

First, I don't think there is any expunging going on. And if this is the national, public lexicon, then why should it continue to be dominated by Christian sayings? Language and culture should reflect the diversity of society, and those parts of it which only serve to reinforce one religion above others meet with what I think are fair challenges.

Back the truck up.

 

I've basically said 2 things. 1- That I prefer to say Merry Christmas, and Ive explained why and 2- That I have absolutely no problem with what others choose to say. Happy Holidays is great with me. When I said I had a slight problem with the secular Happy Holidays greeting, I only meant I had a problem saying it myself, not that I have any problem with others using it. It just feels more natural for me to say Merry Christmas. I really see no difference between the two. As Enhanced stated above, I think most people use them interchangeably and that the religious aspect doesn't even register 99% of the time.

 

I'm somewhat of a scrooge anyway. I don't really like the season because for the most part it just means I have a helluva lot more stuff to get done and I don't enjoy crowds. My workload seems to increase tenfold with end of year stuff and it gets compounded by having extra days off of work for the various holidays. Not to be a dick but, if people knew what I really wanted to say most of the time around this time of year they should be overjoyed that I say Merry Christmas and not what I'm really thinking. Most of it is that I don't see the holidays as happy time and I default to Merry Christmas because that was most common in my upbringing. And I find black Friday and all the focus on shopping etc. to be quite out of control. Retailers and most people go way overboard IMO. Did I mention all damned decorations and lights and trees and stuff that my wife insists on dragging out and having to box back up every year. I may be more than somewhat of a scrooge, I just don't enjoy most of it. I do like getting together with family but that's about it for the pluses.

 

I have not once stated that people should say Merry Christmas or not say Happy Holidays. However it seems a few in here are pushing for happy holidays and are a little against Merry Christmas. I've only tried to say that people should do what ever they find natural and comfortable.

 

And pretty much everything anymore is damned if you do or damned if you don't. People, somebody, somewhere, will find fault with anything. So yeah, it doesn't matter what a person does, somebody will take issue with it. This topic is the perfect example. Both sayings are a nice way to greet people but people find a way to bitch and complain about it. Can't win.

 

So Merry friggin Christmas and Happy damn Holidays ;-)

I keed...but just a little.

[TAKODA]

How fragil some people must be if they take my wishing them 'Merry Christmas' as an insult to their religious beliefs or non-religious beliefs. Who the hell has the book of the do's and dont's in the world we live now? If I wish someone anything other than 'Merry Christmas', to those I say it too, it would be an insincere tiding, because I have no clue to what they feel or believe. I say it because I mean it.

 

I can't imagine how one can operate (living life), always trying appease others in a PC manner.

[zoogs]

Do: Wish people happy holidays.

Don't: Refuse to wish people happy holidays unless it's Christmas.

 

If this is a book, it's a darn short one, and everyone has already read it.

[Enhance]

How fragil some people must be if they take my wishing them 'Merry Christmas' as an insult to their religious beliefs or non-religious beliefs. Who the hell has the book of the do's and dont's in the world we live now? If I wish someone anything other than 'Merry Christmas', to those I say it too, it would be an insincere tiding, because I have no clue to what they feel or believe. I say it because I mean it.

 

I can't imagine how one can operate (living life), always trying appease others in a PC manner.

Actually, my intent for creating this thread was not because I had seen people get upset about being told "Merry Christmas." I created it because of the following quote -

 

"I'm a good Christian," the Republican presidential front-runner said. "If I become president, we're gonna be saying Merry Christmas at every store ... You can leave happy holidays at the corner." - Donald Trump

 

So, we shouldn't act like or suggest non-Christians are to blame.

 

Edit - I'm not saying Christians are to blame, either, or that any blame need be placed. One could easily prove some people don't like either one.

[Moiraine]

I think it's mostly Christians making a big deal over it - over stores saying Happy Holidays or changing some things to be more generic and less Christmas-specific.

 

 

Before anyone replies, when I say "mostly Christians" I don't mean most Christians care. I mean of the very, very few people who give a crap about this, most are Christians. Companies are trying to be more inclusive of all religions and got flack from mostly Christians.

[TAKODA]

 

How fragil some people must be if they take my wishing them 'Merry Christmas' as an insult to their religious beliefs or non-religious beliefs. Who the hell has the book of the do's and dont's in the world we live now? If I wish someone anything other than 'Merry Christmas', to those I say it too, it would be an insincere tiding, because I have no clue to what they feel or believe. I say it because I mean it.

I can't imagine how one can operate (living life), always trying appease others in a PC manner.

 

Actually, my intent for creating this thread was not because I had seen people get upset about being told "Merry Christmas." I created it because of the following quote -

 

"I'm a good Christian," the Republican presidential front-runner said. "If I become president, we're gonna be saying Merry Christmas at every store ... You can leave happy holidays at the corner." - Donald Trump

 

So, we shouldn't act like or suggest non-Christians are to blame.

 

Edit - I'm not saying Christians are to blame, either, or that any blame need be placed. One could easily prove some people don't like either one.

I am not blaming anyone for anything here!

I don't give two sh*ts what DT says about Christmas, what he is, or isn't going to do!

He and every other politician I have known, are about as moral and ethical as a whore in heat!

 

I do not look at people and try to analyze what (if any), religion they believe in, are they gay or straight, are REP or DEM, what race they are. I look at people and if they are good people (perceived by actions and demeanor), and I value their being, I wish them the highest level of best wishes I can think of, and from my viewpoint, that is Merry Christmas, when Christmas is the holiday.

 

When it is Valentine's Day, Easter, Halloween or most of the other holidays, I wish people 'Happy ________'.

 

Why is it that those of you who are beating the drum about protecting the rights of everyone, are the ones who live your daily life, profiling?

 

Edit~

 

You can say you are doing just the opposite by saying happy holidays, thus respecting everyone, but you are the ones who are putting thought into why you are wording things as you do, to insure you are not offending anyone. I say what I say because it comes from the heart. If I wanted to offend someone, I am not shy!