The 2020 Presidential Election - Convention & General Election

[BigRedBuster]

 

[Danny Bateman]

An interesting piece of advice from the Gov-Elect of Kentucky:

 

 

Makes you wonder about next year. Most of the rust belt swing states + FL/GA/AZ/IA/OH/NC all lean varying degrees right culturally. 

 

The only moderates who seem like they have any chance to win are Biden and Buttigieg. Harris I guess if you consider her moderate. Her campaign has been struggling lately though.

[ActualCornHusker]

4 hours ago, Danny Bateman said:

An interesting piece of advice from the Gov-Elect of Kentucky:

 

 

Makes you wonder about next year. Most of the rust belt swing states + FL/GA/AZ/IA/OH/NC all lean varying degrees right culturally. 

 

The only moderates who seem like they have any chance to win are Biden and Buttigieg. Harris I guess if you consider her moderate. Her campaign has been struggling lately though.

 

I'd add that I think informed voters can usually see through candidates who "take moderate positions" but actually aren't very moderate - one way or the other... Bernie has an unusual appeal as a far left candidate because his aim is at the top "1%", and there are 99% of people who aren't currently in that category...

[Ratt Mhule]

5 hours ago, Danny Bateman said:

An interesting piece of advice from the Gov-Elect of Kentucky:

 

 

Makes you wonder about next year. Most of the rust belt swing states + FL/GA/AZ/IA/OH/NC all lean varying degrees right culturally. 

 

The only moderates who seem like they have any chance to win are Biden and Buttigieg. Harris I guess if you consider her moderate. Her campaign has been struggling lately though.

My god the man ran on giving people healthcare and education. Healthcare. Education. Thats it. Thats what people care about. People dont give a s#!t about “moderate messages” and platitudes. They want to know how youre going to better their lives. Bevin tried to take healthcare away and defund education. What has Biden or Buttigieg brought to the table that will improve the lives of people of Kentucky?

 

 

[Danny Bateman]

3 hours ago, Frott Scost said:

My god the man ran on giving people healthcare and education. Healthcare. Education. Thats it. Thats what people care about. People dont give a s#!t about “moderate messages” and platitudes. They want to know how youre going to better their lives. Bevin tried to take healthcare away and defund education. What has Biden or Buttigieg brought to the table that will improve the lives of people of Kentucky?

 

 

 

I hear what you're saying. But just the opposite could be true too: was this an election about policy positions or a referendum on Bevin himself? If it's the latter, Beshear won by taking uncontroversial positions that benefitted the people that Bevin had pissed off by generally just being a d!(k & staying out of his own way.

 

Even Trump's campaign manager was on Twitter with the excuse that Beshear only won because he was a moderate.

 

This scenario suggests that an uncontroversial (even boring) candidate could win by taking fairly popular positions and appealing to the traditional Democratic base and select groups of other voters Trump has pissed off.

 

As for stuff moderates are offering, the Kaiser Family Foundation finds that while M4A is very popular, its support is fairly shallow and largely nerfed once tax increases/treatment delays/inability to keep one's insurance start getting talked about.

 

So Medicare For All Who Want It or public options (which KFF found even stronger support for) are things the moderates are talking about.

[Ratt Mhule]

30 minutes ago, Danny Bateman said:

 

I hear what you're saying. But just the opposite could be true too: was this an election about policy positions or a referendum on Bevin himself? If it's the latter, Beshear won by taking uncontroversial positions that benefitted the people that Bevin had pissed off by generally just being a d!(k & staying out of his own way.

 

Even Trump's campaign manager was on Twitter with the excuse that Beshear only won because he was a moderate.

 

This scenario suggests that an uncontroversial (even boring) candidate could win by taking fairly popular positions and appealing to the traditional Democratic base and select groups of other voters Trump has pissed off.

 

As for stuff moderates are offering, the Kaiser Family Foundation finds that while M4A is very popular, its support is fairly shallow and largely nerfed once tax increases/treatment delays/inability to keep one's insurance start getting talked about.

 

So Medicare For All Who Want It or public options (which KFF found even stronger support for) are things the moderates are talking about.

Okay so the polling along with moderate candidates lie to people about MFA and it works. Ill agree with that because there are a lot of dumbasses in this country which is why we have someone like DT as president. Tax increases: do they mention the tax increase will be less than what they are paying in monthly premiums, co-pays and deductibles? Treatment delays: treatment delays for what? A heart attack? A stroke? Plastic surgery? Word it like you will not receive prompt treatment for a emergency issue, which is a bold face lie, and yes, support will plummet. Inability to keep ones insurance: why the hell do you need insurance when EVERYTHING is covered just for being alive? For once Id like to see a poll worded with truth instead of falsehoods and once and for all we will see how popular MFA is. 
 

Do you support a national, single-payor healthcare system that will get rid of monthly premiums, co-pays and deductibles but will slightly increase taxes but save you in total cost and will allow you to continue to see your current doctor or any other doctor or specialist you wish to see?

 

Medicare for all who want it is a public option with a fancy name piggy backing off popular legislation already introduced in the house and senate. What are the details? You can say medicare for all who want it all you want, but will it save me money? Will it end bankruptcies? How will it be funded when all the sick people are pushed onto it? How much will the monthly premium and deductible be? Will doctors be required to accept it like they will be required under MFA legislation? Will it ensure every man, woman and child have healthcare or will millions of people still be uninsured and underinsured like they would under Bidens plan? Would it require purchasing supplemental private insurance on top of medicare? Will it expand medicare benefits for seniors like MFA would?
 

When will the MSM start asking these questions to moderates? Challenging them on their plans and not just plans brought to the table by Sanders and Warren. They wont. Because they know these plans are just for show until they pivot in the general election and nothing changes when they are elected president and then a worse DT comes along and dupes people into voting for him because nothing got changed with the centrist democrat in office. 

 

 

[Danny Bateman]

17 minutes ago, Frott Scost said:

Okay so the polling along with moderate candidates lie to people about MFA and it works. Ill agree with that because there are a lot of dumbasses in this country which is why we have someone like DT as president. Tax increases: do they mention the tax increase will be less than what they are paying in monthly premiums, co-pays and deductibles? Treatment delays: treatment delays for what? A heart attack? A stroke? Plastic surgery? Word it like you will not receive prompt treatment for a emergency issue, which is a bold face lie, and yes, support will plummet. Inability to keep ones insurance: why the hell do you need insurance when EVERYTHING is covered just for being alive? For once Id like to see a poll worded with truth instead of falsehoods and once and for all we will see how popular MFA is. 
 

Do you support a national, single-payor healthcare system that will get rid of monthly premiums, co-pays and deductibles but will slightly increase taxes but save you in total cost and will allow you to continue to see your current doctor or any other doctor or specialist you wish to see?

 

Medicare for all who want it is a public option with a fancy name piggy backing off popular legislation already introduced in the house and senate. What are the details? You can say medicare for all who want it all you want, but will it save me money? Will it end bankruptcies? How will it be funded when all the sick people are pushed onto it? How much will the monthly premium and deductible be? Will doctors be required to accept it like they will be required under MFA legislation? Will it ensure every man, woman and child have healthcare or will millions of people still be uninsured and underinsured like they would under Bidens plan? Would it require purchasing supplemental private insurance on top of medicare? Will it expand medicare benefits for seniors like MFA would?
 

When will the MSM start asking these questions to moderates? Challenging them on their plans and not just plans brought to the table by Sanders and Warren. They wont. Because they know these plans are just for show until they pivot in the general election and nothing changes when they are elected president and then a worse DT comes along and dupes people into voting for him because nothing got changed with the centrist democrat in office. 

 

 

 

Bit of a gish-gallop here. I'm not saying either way is good or bad; I'm just playing devil's advocate to your argument and acknowledging public sentiment for M4A seems rather tenuous. It is what it is; I'm just pointing out facts. I could understand why it would bother you as a very strong M4A advocate.

 

More people want to improve the ACA than implement M4A, and the former is what most moderates are promising to do.

 

Personally I'd be just as interested in the media asking Bernie or Warren how their plans actually get done, as that would almost assuredly require nuking the filibuster in the Senate and getting to 50 Senate seats (maybe 51 with Manchin not being a guarantee).

That would require flipping 4 Senate seats (assuming Doug Jones loses in AL - which is almost a given - and Dems hold all other seats). Not sure if either progressive has the political chops in places like NC/ME/GA/TX/AZ where we're gonna have to flip seats to get this done.

 

As is I'm cynical about anyone being able to flip that many seats and thus a lot of these progressive plans seem like longshots...

[Ratt Mhule]

8 minutes ago, Danny Bateman said:

 

Bit of a gish-gallop here. I'm not saying either way is good or bad; I'm just playing devil's advocate to your argument and acknowledging public sentiment for M4A seems rather tenuous. It is what it is; I'm just pointing out facts. I could understand why it would bother you as a very strong M4A advocate.

 

More people want to improve the ACA than implement M4A, and the former is what most moderates are promising to do.

 

Personally I'd be just as interested in the media asking Bernie or Warren how their plans actually get done, as that would almost assuredly require nuking the filibuster in the Senate and getting to 50 Senate seats (maybe 51 with Manchin not being a guarantee).

That would require flipping 4 Senate seats (assuming Doug Jones loses in AL - which is almost a given - and Dems hold all other seats). Not sure if either progressive has the political chops in places like NC/ME/GA/TX/AZ where we're gonna have to flip seats to get this done.

 

As is I'm cynical about anyone being able to flip that many seats and thus a lot of these progressive plans seem like longshots...

Sanders has already said multiple times how he would attempt to get his agenda passed. He said hed implement the bully pulpit and become organizer in chief hosting rallies and peaceful demonstrations with thousands of working class people in the hometowns of legislators who are against the agenda. 

[Danny Bateman]

4 minutes ago, Frott Scost said:

Sanders has already said multiple times how he would attempt to get his agenda passed. He said hed implement the bully pulpit and become organizer in chief hosting rallies and peaceful demonstrations with thousands of working class people in the hometowns of legislators who are against the agenda. 

 

Trump has millions of people wholeheartedly in favor of building the wall. They've had rallies to support it as well.

 

How's that working out?

[Ratt Mhule]

3 minutes ago, Danny Bateman said:

 

Trump has millions of people wholeheartedly in favor of building the wall.
They've had rallies to support it as well.

 

How's that working out?

Well he got billions of dollars allocated to building the wall so Id say it got further along than it should have...

[knapplc]

I shouldn't be surprised about this, as apathetic as I am about Biden, but fourth in Iowa? Eeesshh!!!

 

And I continue to believe that Buttigieg is not going to be the nominee. But this is a good showing, even if it is really early still.

 

 

[Ratt Mhule]

 

Man I love me some Krystal Ball

[TGHusker]

3 hours ago, Frott Scost said:

 

Man I love me some Krystal Ball

One thing I have noticed about this generation (Krystal's, Pete's, and most likely your's SF & a good # of posters on here) is that they ask hard, honest questions.   They have good hearts - they know life's bottom line isn't about becoming a billionaire but leaving this place better than how they found it.

 

I have 2 sons in your age catagory and we've had some real good heart to heart talks.

 

Our country is in the midst of a seismic shift in values, wants, and needs. Yes, us older ones 'just want to make it to retirement' before too much more chaos hits the fan.  Every generation has seismic issues - mine had to deal wt the Vietnam war, assassinations of John, Martin, and Bobby( and nearly Reagan 20 years later)- the heros who inspired us (even me as a grade school-er at the time - I know where I was for each of those assassinations - they are vivid in my mind), the 70s was filled wt economic downs, a crook for a president and an inept one also.  Gas was 22 cents and jumped to $1/gal - which was a big deal, the cold war, stock market ups and busts of all kinds , 2 gulf wars, and a dozen 'little wars' and now an infidel in the WH (something we all share the burden of).   We will make it.  Hopefully leaving good things behind us as well. 

Your generation will make it also.  You will overcome the weaknesses of my generation as we failed to live up to the expectations of the 'greatest generation' which preceded ours (kind of an intimidating act to follow).  All of you under 40 on these threads - keep challenging, keep asking questions, keep seeking better answers and keep seeking to improve yourself (in all of the right areas not just money) and seek to improve the lives of those around you.  You will make it also.   My generation needs to gracefully exit stage right and let new leaders with new ideas come to the fore so that they can resolve a new set of challenges for this generation. 

 

I'm encouraged by the voices I hear.  I may not always agree with you but it is more important that you have a voice and you use it.  Keep at it - on HB forums, in the cafe, at school, at home - change will come.  Be excited that you can help craft what the future looks like. 

[TGHusker]

What do you think of Bloomberg entering the race?   Basis: the thinks Biden is slipping badly and Warren, etc are too far left to beat Trump.

 

https://apnews.com/461efe170a174c4fb9446951c164537e

 

 

 

Quote

 

BLUFFTON, S.C. (AP) — All is not well in the Democratic Party’s quest for a presidential nominee.

Just ask Michael Bloomberg.

The New York billionaire, whose career in business and politics has been guided by data and analysis above all, is stepping toward a Democratic run of his own less than 90 days before the first votes are cast. More than anything, his decision reflects two prime factors: the glaring weakness of establishment-favorite Joe Biden and persistent fears that his surging rival, Elizabeth Warren, is too liberal to defeat President Donald Trump in a general election.It’s far from clear that Bloomberg, a former Republican with no broad political base, can compete with Biden or Warren should he decide to run. Yet his step in that direction represents a powerful indictment of his new party’s presidential field.

“This is a team that is very smart and methodical,” said New York-based Democratic pollster Jef Pollock. “It reflects a feeling that the field cannot beat Donald Trump, and therefore, they feel like they have to try.”

Just seven months ago, Bloomberg announced he would not enter the Democratic primary after a brief exploration phase. His advisers, at the time, privately shared their analysis that there wasn’t room for another centrist like Bloomberg with Biden in the race.

What a difference seven months makes.

The former vice president showed vulnerability in his campaign’s earliest days with a series of flubs and uneven performances that bothered his establishment allies. Still, Biden led in virtually every poll for much of the year because of the persistent belief that he was the most electable Democrat in a head-to-head matchup against Trump.

A turning point came last month when Biden released a weak third-quarter fundraising report that undermined a supposed strength, raising serious questions about the extent of his support from the party’s power brokers. And in recent weeks, a series of underwhelming polls in Iowa and New Hampshire suggested that Biden is falling behind in the states that typically matter most in primary politics.

He is clearly trending in the wrong direction. And the universe of concerned Democrats is expanding.

They include establishment allies such as former Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe, who encouraged Biden last month to fire consultants and stop flying on private planes. They include rank-and-file voters like Bobbi Helton, a retiree from Hilton Head, S.C., who said this week that she’s still shopping for a candidate in the moderate lane.

 

 

[BigRedBuster]

1 hour ago, TGHusker said:

What do you think of Bloomberg entering the race?   Basis: the thinks Biden is slipping badly and Warren, etc are too far left to beat Trump.

Don't know if I'd really want to vote for him but, he has to be a hell of a lot better than DeBlasio.