House Majority Whip Steve Scalise shot in Virginia

[BigRedBuster]

I find Fox dropping their motto hilarious. Even their marketing department is realizing everyone knows it's a sham.

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

Time for a Some thoughts that hit me today.

Somehow we as a country have to address the partisanship extremes that we are seeing in our country and I'm not sure how that can happen. For a while after 911 we were "all Americans' then it went back to partisanship in such a strong way. There were Bush bashers (maybe some of you) and then Obama bashers (me and some others), now we probably both agree Bush and Obama would be better than the current situation. But even in the current situation, we can't be trying to remove a president just because he has a R by his name or just because he has a D by his/her (if it had been Hillary) name. Yes, our country's history has been rife with partisanship since it's beginning -Tories vs Patriots, Federalist vs Antifderalists, Slave rights vs anti-slavery, North vs South, Internationalists vs isolationists, red states vs blue states, etc. It seems at times of national crisis we come together - like 911 and WW2 and at other times it tears us apart - Vietnam, Civil Rights changes.

 

How do we change the discussion? I think we start by considering the people we elect and also the people we empower by our listening and reading via the ratings they gain.

 

Regarding those whom we elect: I've become very weary of red meat republicans and democrats. Those who play just to the hot button items that play to the extremes. That is how Trump got elected. One needs to look well beyond the hot button (it may be your favorite hot button) and see if they have a well rounded, thought out governing philosophy. Trump didn't and still doesn't as an example.

 

Regarding those whom we empower via our listening and reading habits:

The fringe voices gain strength as we visit their websites (left or right). As the # of hits go up, so does their power through advertising $$s. Consider the fact that Megan Kelly can draw viewers with an interview wt nut job Alex Jones. This speaks loudly of the power of how the # of hits on his website has contributed to his ability to influence more people than what his crazy philosophy should garner.

The fringe are drawn to those who speak their language - weather it is Jones or in the case of this shooter - Rachael Maddow's constant negativity (note I don't think Maddow is on the Alex Jones level - I speak however of her constant negative attitude towards all things R). The same could be said of what our culture calls 'art' including the 'assassination' play in NYC or the 'artistic' cut off head" by Griffin. The same can be said of Obama being burned in effigy and the many uncomely attacks on him from the right. All of these should be condemned as not acceptable to a civil society.

 

As for me I've tuned out talk radio - except the local and rare occasions those more balanced in their rhetoric. Even in those cases, my time is very limited because I know that negativity spoils my spirit and soul. Even if the negative 'truth' is correct and factual, one can still be poisoned by it if one over indulges. The same can be true of our discussions on HB. All of the things being said in the multiple threads about Trump may all be true (saying this as a general thought not as a factual thought) but it can still poison our spirit if that is all we 'tune into'. Perhaps at one time this shooter yesterday was balanced in his life. But then he started to believe half truths. As the saying goes "Be aware of half-truths, as you may get the wrong half." Being open and listening to others on HB and else where can challenge our assumptions and help us to avoid ending up wt the wrong half.

I have been spending more time than normal around my parents lately. I have spoken about them on here before. They are the typical elderly Trump supporter that sits down and watches Fox News for hours and soaks up all the crap they can about those evil liberals and Hillary and Obama are out to destroy America.

 

Anyway, I refuse to even sit in the living room with them when Fox News is on. They finally were catching on and when I would come sit down, they would change.

 

Well, last night I sat down and Fox (Hannity) was talking about the shootings. "Dad asked, What do you think about that?" I calmly expressed my feelings about how disappointed I am about what this country has become where all the sides do is demonize each other. Dad started in instantly talking about how this guy was a BERNIE supporter and how this happened because he was a liberal and he just can't figure out why "THEY hate Trump so much".

 

I lost it......... I went off.....I expressed exactly why I can't stand Trump and gave all specific examples and reasons. My Dad sat their fairly quiet and my Mom would say...."I didn't know that". I said..."Fox News isn't going to tell you that because he's their God Child and you only listen to Fox News". My wife was digging her nails into my leg and I just didn't stop. I gave specific examples of Republican congressmen like Rand Paul (posted on here) tweeting last year about what the second amendment is for and picking up your musket if Trump didn't win....etc.

 

I'm still pissed about the conversation just writing this post.

 

Dad just sat back and said...."well, this is fun". and changed the channel.

 

Sadly, my expressing my feelings won't change anything.

 

My Dad I think is coming around slowly. He decided to change his registration from R to I. He has spoken negatively of some of the Fox guys including Hannity and O'Reilly before he was fired. I personally cannot stand to listen to Hannity. I know it is nothing but a partisan rant. I understand Fox has dropped or is dropping the motto 'Fair and Balanced' - maybe they are removing any pretense.

 

Oh...in my rant about Fox News, my Dad had the gall to say...."Well, the New York Times is the WORST..." I shot back....who told you that......Trump and Fox???" He didn't say anything.

[TGHusker]

Yes, after we dropped cable a few years ago, I thought I'd miss Fox. It was the best thing for me. Now I can go to a hotel room and not feel compelled to turn it on. Life is more than 24 hour news - whether it is fair and balanced or not.

[Kiyoat Husker]

Responding to, but not quoting TG:

 

My thought is that we should be looking at fixing the disease rather than the symptom. As you mentioned, America has always tended to be a two-party system (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-party_system). The parties have changed and evolved (remember the Whigs?), but there has always been a strong tendency for minor parties to be marginalized and/or disappear.

 

This often leads to political polarity, gerrymandering, voter apathy, less diverse viewpoints, etc. As an example, our own Knapplc, champion of socially liberal viewpoints in many discussions on this board, was recently greeted with shocked horror when he expressed some economically conservative views on income tax structure. So What? Can a person not have diverse viewpoints on various topics? Are ELCA Lutherans less christian because they accept gay pastors?

 

I think we need to fix the system, or it will just come right back to where we started.

[TGHusker]

 

 

 

Time for a Some thoughts that hit me today.

Somehow we as a country have to address the partisanship extremes that we are seeing in our country and I'm not sure how that can happen. For a while after 911 we were "all Americans' then it went back to partisanship in such a strong way. There were Bush bashers (maybe some of you) and then Obama bashers (me and some others), now we probably both agree Bush and Obama would be better than the current situation. But even in the current situation, we can't be trying to remove a president just because he has a R by his name or just because he has a D by his/her (if it had been Hillary) name. Yes, our country's history has been rife with partisanship since it's beginning -Tories vs Patriots, Federalist vs Antifderalists, Slave rights vs anti-slavery, North vs South, Internationalists vs isolationists, red states vs blue states, etc. It seems at times of national crisis we come together - like 911 and WW2 and at other times it tears us apart - Vietnam, Civil Rights changes.

 

How do we change the discussion? I think we start by considering the people we elect and also the people we empower by our listening and reading via the ratings they gain.

 

Regarding those whom we elect: I've become very weary of red meat republicans and democrats. Those who play just to the hot button items that play to the extremes. That is how Trump got elected. One needs to look well beyond the hot button (it may be your favorite hot button) and see if they have a well rounded, thought out governing philosophy. Trump didn't and still doesn't as an example.

 

Regarding those whom we empower via our listening and reading habits:

The fringe voices gain strength as we visit their websites (left or right). As the # of hits go up, so does their power through advertising $$s. Consider the fact that Megan Kelly can draw viewers with an interview wt nut job Alex Jones. This speaks loudly of the power of how the # of hits on his website has contributed to his ability to influence more people than what his crazy philosophy should garner.

The fringe are drawn to those who speak their language - weather it is Jones or in the case of this shooter - Rachael Maddow's constant negativity (note I don't think Maddow is on the Alex Jones level - I speak however of her constant negative attitude towards all things R). The same could be said of what our culture calls 'art' including the 'assassination' play in NYC or the 'artistic' cut off head" by Griffin. The same can be said of Obama being burned in effigy and the many uncomely attacks on him from the right. All of these should be condemned as not acceptable to a civil society.

 

As for me I've tuned out talk radio - except the local and rare occasions those more balanced in their rhetoric. Even in those cases, my time is very limited because I know that negativity spoils my spirit and soul. Even if the negative 'truth' is correct and factual, one can still be poisoned by it if one over indulges. The same can be true of our discussions on HB. All of the things being said in the multiple threads about Trump may all be true (saying this as a general thought not as a factual thought) but it can still poison our spirit if that is all we 'tune into'. Perhaps at one time this shooter yesterday was balanced in his life. But then he started to believe half truths. As the saying goes "Be aware of half-truths, as you may get the wrong half." Being open and listening to others on HB and else where can challenge our assumptions and help us to avoid ending up wt the wrong half.

I have been spending more time than normal around my parents lately. I have spoken about them on here before. They are the typical elderly Trump supporter that sits down and watches Fox News for hours and soaks up all the crap they can about those evil liberals and Hillary and Obama are out to destroy America.

 

Anyway, I refuse to even sit in the living room with them when Fox News is on. They finally were catching on and when I would come sit down, they would change.

 

Well, last night I sat down and Fox (Hannity) was talking about the shootings. "Dad asked, What do you think about that?" I calmly expressed my feelings about how disappointed I am about what this country has become where all the sides do is demonize each other. Dad started in instantly talking about how this guy was a BERNIE supporter and how this happened because he was a liberal and he just can't figure out why "THEY hate Trump so much".

 

I lost it......... I went off.....I expressed exactly why I can't stand Trump and gave all specific examples and reasons. My Dad sat their fairly quiet and my Mom would say...."I didn't know that". I said..."Fox News isn't going to tell you that because he's their God Child and you only listen to Fox News". My wife was digging her nails into my leg and I just didn't stop. I gave specific examples of Republican congressmen like Rand Paul (posted on here) tweeting last year about what the second amendment is for and picking up your musket if Trump didn't win....etc.

 

I'm still pissed about the conversation just writing this post.

 

Dad just sat back and said...."well, this is fun". and changed the channel.

 

Sadly, my expressing my feelings won't change anything.

 

My Dad I think is coming around slowly. He decided to change his registration from R to I. He has spoken negatively of some of the Fox guys including Hannity and O'Reilly before he was fired. I personally cannot stand to listen to Hannity. I know it is nothing but a partisan rant. I understand Fox has dropped or is dropping the motto 'Fair and Balanced' - maybe they are removing any pretense.

 

Oh...in my rant about Fox News, my Dad had the gall to say...."Well, the New York Times is the WORST..." I shot back....who told you that......Trump and Fox???" He didn't say anything.

 

I think all legit news outlets have biases. However, knowing that shouldn't keep us from considering what they are saying - it challenges our biases. Which is a good thing. The NYT and Wash Post have had some good articles since the election. When someone labels everything a legit sources puts out as fake news, you have to wonder what they are trying to protect. If a legit news outlet (broadcast, cable or print) only gave out fake news, they'd de-evolve into the National Inquire and InfoWar status (hummm seems like Trump supports both of these ). What kind of creditability do they have? Zero. From a purely business point of view, it is bad policy to major on fake news (except if you are in the business of fake news and play to the extremes)

[TGHusker]

Responding to, but not quoting TG:

 

My thought is that we should be looking at fixing the disease rather than the symptom. As you mentioned, America has always tended to be a two-party system (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-party_system). The parties have changed and evolved (remember the Whigs?), but there has always been a strong tendency for minor parties to be marginalized and/or disappear.

 

This often leads to political polarity, gerrymandering, voter apathy, less diverse viewpoints, etc. As an example, our own Knapplc, champion of socially liberal viewpoints in many discussions on this board, was recently greeted with shocked horror when he expressed some economically conservative views on income tax structure. So What? Can a person not have diverse viewpoints on various topics? Are ELCA Lutherans less christian because they accept gay pastors?

 

I think we need to fix the system, or it will just come right back to where we started.

Very good. Yes, I'm seeing more clearly that as a pro-life voter I can also be (and really should be to be consistent) pro to many of the other social policies that those on the left side pursue. Pro-life in the womb and outside of the womb as some have said. I don't have to stay on the republican plantation just for my pro-life views. This allows me the freedom to vote for a dem if I think in balance they would be better overall.

[NM11046]

 

 

Time for a Some thoughts that hit me today.

Somehow we as a country have to address the partisanship extremes that we are seeing in our country and I'm not sure how that can happen. For a while after 911 we were "all Americans' then it went back to partisanship in such a strong way. There were Bush bashers (maybe some of you) and then Obama bashers (me and some others), now we probably both agree Bush and Obama would be better than the current situation. But even in the current situation, we can't be trying to remove a president just because he has a R by his name or just because he has a D by his/her (if it had been Hillary) name. Yes, our country's history has been rife with partisanship since it's beginning -Tories vs Patriots, Federalist vs Antifderalists, Slave rights vs anti-slavery, North vs South, Internationalists vs isolationists, red states vs blue states, etc. It seems at times of national crisis we come together - like 911 and WW2 and at other times it tears us apart - Vietnam, Civil Rights changes.

 

How do we change the discussion? I think we start by considering the people we elect and also the people we empower by our listening and reading via the ratings they gain.

 

Regarding those whom we elect: I've become very weary of red meat republicans and democrats. Those who play just to the hot button items that play to the extremes. That is how Trump got elected. One needs to look well beyond the hot button (it may be your favorite hot button) and see if they have a well rounded, thought out governing philosophy. Trump didn't and still doesn't as an example.

 

Regarding those whom we empower via our listening and reading habits:

The fringe voices gain strength as we visit their websites (left or right). As the # of hits go up, so does their power through advertising $$s. Consider the fact that Megan Kelly can draw viewers with an interview wt nut job Alex Jones. This speaks loudly of the power of how the # of hits on his website has contributed to his ability to influence more people than what his crazy philosophy should garner.

The fringe are drawn to those who speak their language - weather it is Jones or in the case of this shooter - Rachael Maddow's constant negativity (note I don't think Maddow is on the Alex Jones level - I speak however of her constant negative attitude towards all things R). The same could be said of what our culture calls 'art' including the 'assassination' play in NYC or the 'artistic' cut off head" by Griffin. The same can be said of Obama being burned in effigy and the many uncomely attacks on him from the right. All of these should be condemned as not acceptable to a civil society.

 

As for me I've tuned out talk radio - except the local and rare occasions those more balanced in their rhetoric. Even in those cases, my time is very limited because I know that negativity spoils my spirit and soul. Even if the negative 'truth' is correct and factual, one can still be poisoned by it if one over indulges. The same can be true of our discussions on HB. All of the things being said in the multiple threads about Trump may all be true (saying this as a general thought not as a factual thought) but it can still poison our spirit if that is all we 'tune into'. Perhaps at one time this shooter yesterday was balanced in his life. But then he started to believe half truths. As the saying goes "Be aware of half-truths, as you may get the wrong half." Being open and listening to others on HB and else where can challenge our assumptions and help us to avoid ending up wt the wrong half.

I have been spending more time than normal around my parents lately. I have spoken about them on here before. They are the typical elderly Trump supporter that sits down and watches Fox News for hours and soaks up all the crap they can about those evil liberals and Hillary and Obama are out to destroy America.

 

Anyway, I refuse to even sit in the living room with them when Fox News is on. They finally were catching on and when I would come sit down, they would change.

 

Well, last night I sat down and Fox (Hannity) was talking about the shootings. "Dad asked, What do you think about that?" I calmly expressed my feelings about how disappointed I am about what this country has become where all the sides do is demonize each other. Dad started in instantly talking about how this guy was a BERNIE supporter and how this happened because he was a liberal and he just can't figure out why "THEY hate Trump so much".

 

I lost it......... I went off.....I expressed exactly why I can't stand Trump and gave all specific examples and reasons. My Dad sat their fairly quiet and my Mom would say...."I didn't know that". I said..."Fox News isn't going to tell you that because he's their God Child and you only listen to Fox News". My wife was digging her nails into my leg and I just didn't stop. I gave specific examples of Republican congressmen like Rand Paul (posted on here) tweeting last year about what the second amendment is for and picking up your musket if Trump didn't win....etc.

 

I'm still pissed about the conversation just writing this post.

 

Dad just sat back and said...."well, this is fun". and changed the channel.

 

Sadly, my expressing my feelings won't change anything.

Sorry BRB. I kniw how stressful and disappointing that is.

 

We have that understanding at my parents house - no Fox when Im there. Dad dvr's Bill (used to) and would watch episodes multiple times. I refer to his tv watching area as The Right wing of the house. Mom isnt as sold, but 50%of what comes out of her mouth is from there - she isnt totally sucked in, but she doesnt view anything else and wont do legwork or research to form her own opinion. Neither one would engage with me during the election, which is probably good - neither liked hillary, but I dont think my mom would have voted Trump. I cant even ask what they did because they live in a swing state and their voes did matter.

 

I asked my mom how this was shaping up vs what they lived thru with Watergate and she said she didnt pay attn then, she was raising a family. I need to talk to dad as I think, like you that yesterday's incident should open up some opportunities to better understand "why" they feel how they do.

 

Being able to share info with that generation is so important - stay the course my friend.

[BigRedBuster]

Fox is very unique in that they were really the first network that pretty openly catered to one ideological group and convinced them that all other news outlets are horribly biased and should be avoided. By doing so, the other outlets can remain the same and at least close to the middle. Fox then can, over time, move their audience farther and farther away from the middle. By doing that, if you are one who only consumes Fox, that becomes the perceived norm. Anything else becomes very liberal and therefore confirming what they drilled into people's heads in the beginning.

 

I don't know of anyone who only reads the NYT, Washpo, CNN...etc. like I know people who only watch Fox News.

[RedDenver]

Thanks for the personal insights.

 

My mom is hard core Fox News watcher and hard core Republican. The most frustrating thing for me is that she's convinced she's a centrist because she's registered as an Independent, even though I don't think she's ever voted for a non-Republican. We have mildly heated political arguments, but I've learned to try to stick to presenting her the facts and challenging her version of the facts. I have been able to convince her of some things but not always and only slowly and only when she double checks the facts I'm presenting.

[RedDenver]

Yes, I'm seeing more clearly that as a pro-life voter I can also be (and really should be to be consistent) pro to many of the other social policies that those on the left side pursue. Pro-life in the womb and outside of the womb as some have said. I don't have to stay on the republican plantation just for my pro-life views. This allows me the freedom to vote for a dem if I think in balance they would be better overall.

I'm actually having a similar experience but in reverse. I'm pro-choice, but my own views on social policies is leading me to be more and more restrictive on when an abortion should be allowed.

[NM11046]

 

Yes, I'm seeing more clearly that as a pro-life voter I can also be (and really should be to be consistent) pro to many of the other social policies that those on the left side pursue. Pro-life in the womb and outside of the womb as some have said. I don't have to stay on the republican plantation just for my pro-life views. This allows me the freedom to vote for a dem if I think in balance they would be better overall.

I'm actually having a similar experience but in reverse. I'm pro-choice, but my own views on social policies is leading me to be more and more restrictive on when an abortion should be allowed.

 

I just want to say kudos to you both - it's a big issue that people have very strong feelings about and if you've actually taken the time to think about it, and to be open to tweaking your stance you're further ahead of 99% of the people here.

[zoogs]

“I did not say people were being unfactual. Re-read it. I was trying to say, beware of how all of the negativity affects us as individuals.”

 

I agree with this, but also beware of our natural inclination to be positive and see things as normal/acceptable. When they are not, a sustained effort to decry the state of affairs is crucial. A conciliatory or deferential attitude is what is constantly being solicited and would be a huge win for the people with bad intentions who now hold extraordinary power.

[Danny Bateman]

TGH - Good rant. And kudos on your thoughts about pro-life in AND out of the womb. I like that a lot. Seeming to have no regard for the latter is one thing that absolutely drives me nuts about staunch conservatives.

 

BRB - Sorry man, I felt like that was building up slowly over time and had to come out eventually. Probably felt good, though, to a degree? I hope it doesn't make things worse. Who knows, maybe it will make things better?

 

I keep trying to hammer home... Fox News is dangerously damaging to us as a society. They're deeply, deeply intellectually dishonest, and it goes past simply being partisan and leaning to the right. They hire entertainment personalities, present them as legitimate news reporters, and serve up a piping hot plate of completely curated, carefully controlled reality 24/7. There are very few legitimate journos on that station, and kudos to them for sticking it out. I'm not sure if it's better the lend a veneer of credibility to the network or just get out and get away from their BS.

 

TGH's rant on the last page made me realize that paying attention to this crap day after day can be very stressful and take a toll on any of us, regardless of your political leanings. It can obviously damage personal relationships. Sometimes it's good to just unplug and ignore the situation for a while - for your own health and mental sanity.

[Kiyoat Husker]

 

 

Responding to, but not quoting TG:

 

My thought is that we should be looking at fixing the disease rather than the symptom. As you mentioned, America has always tended to be a two-party system (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-party_system). The parties have changed and evolved (remember the Whigs?), but there has always been a strong tendency for minor parties to be marginalized and/or disappear.

 

This often leads to political polarity, gerrymandering, voter apathy, less diverse viewpoints, etc. As an example, our own Knapplc, champion of socially liberal viewpoints in many discussions on this board, was recently greeted with shocked horror when he expressed some economically conservative views on income tax structure. So What? Can a person not have diverse viewpoints on various topics? Are ELCA Lutherans less christian because they accept gay pastors?

 

I think we need to fix the system, or it will just come right back to where we started.

Very good. Yes, I'm seeing more clearly that as a pro-life voter I can also be (and really should be to be consistent) pro to many of the other social policies that those on the left side pursue. Pro-life in the womb and outside of the womb as some have said. I don't have to stay on the republican plantation just for my pro-life views. This allows me the freedom to vote for a dem if I think in balance they would be better overall.

Good stuff! I myself am trying to be more selective in my news sources, and not just read right-bashing stuff.

 

It truely is difficult to detect bias when you are reading something that confirms your own bias.

 

I can't help watching Stephen Colbert, though. He's just too damn funny, and Trump is too moronic to not be a target.

[Kiyoat Husker]

Had to share this: