Bad Goats

[knapplc]

How well do you know the situation involved in this story, BRB?

[JJ Husker]

I want to jump in in favor of the university using goats but I don't think I know enough about it.

If they could replace the workers with goats for less money then it's a no brainer. I have to believe the goats would be more efficient and cheaper to get the job done.

But I don't know much about goats either except that they'll eat practically anything.

 

BUT, if there is a goat rental company involved then that changes things. In that case the university should've notified the union. Well, they probably should've notified them anyway if it affected their workers. It would be a lot simpler if the university owned the goats and just didn't have the human labor requirement needs.

 

Background, my experience has been that unions will file grievances for anything and everything that negatively affects the amount of work for their people. And it doesn't matter if the union is getting the job done or not. Years ago we had been waiting forever for union electricians to wire some light fixtures for a cafeteria remodel we were building. When we got tired of waiting for them (a few weeks if I recall) to actually show up and do the job, we went ahead and did it ourselves so that we could proceed with our other work. Yep, we had grievances filed against us for taking away their work. So, I don't have a very positive attitude towards some of these types of things.

[funhusker]

So, if the University purchased a bunch of gas powered weed trimmers, they would complain because people using scissors to cut weeks back would require more grounds keepers.

 

Or....if they would have purchased the goats themselves instead of paying this farmer to bring in their goats, there wouldn't be grounds for complaining........unless the goats would then be considered slave labor.

 

It's an F'ing University where I'm sure kids are racking up large loan amounts to go to school. I'm sure they prefer the University to get rid of the weeds as cheaply as possible.

 

It's a stupid complaint and an example of why Unions get complained about.

 

 

 

 

Maybe the union needs to convince the goats to join.

As you have said before. Some of us were trying to explain why it might not be such a stupid complaint and not a reason to complain. But if you just want to vent about it, I'll let you have you peace to do so.

 

 

+1 to El Diaco's post. I agree, unions can be a pain in the arse. But can also be needed in some professions. Where the "disconnect" comes from, I think, is people equating a "grievance" with a "strike" or "walk out". This was nothing more than a piece of paper filed that someone will have to address at the next negotiation meeting.

[BigRedBuster]

 

So, if the University purchased a bunch of gas powered weed trimmers, they would complain because people using scissors to cut weeks back would require more grounds keepers.

 

Or....if they would have purchased the goats themselves instead of paying this farmer to bring in their goats, there wouldn't be grounds for complaining........unless the goats would then be considered slave labor.

 

It's an F'ing University where I'm sure kids are racking up large loan amounts to go to school. I'm sure they prefer the University to get rid of the weeds as cheaply as possible.

 

It's a stupid complaint and an example of why Unions get complained about.

 

 

 

 

Maybe the union needs to convince the goats to join.

As you have said before. Some of us were trying to explain why it might not be such a stupid complaint and not a reason to complain. But if you just want to vent about it, I'll let you have you peace to do so.

 

 

+1 to El Diaco's post. I agree, unions can be a pain in the arse. But can also be needed in some professions. Where the "disconnect" comes from, I think, is people equating a "grievance" with a "strike" or "walk out". This was nothing more than a piece of paper filed that someone will have to address at the next negotiation meeting.

 

How much do I know about this situation? What it says in the article.

 

How much do I know about goats and weeds? Actually quite a bit.

 

It's a great idea for the University to use goats in this way.

 

My mother and father are elderly. They hire a lady to come clean weeds out of their landscaping. Every year, they have a guy from down the road put sheep in their wind break to keep the weeds down. I guess the lady cleaning the weeds out of the landscape should file a formal grievance because they don't notify her they are having the sheep delivered.

 

I understand nobody is walking out or striking.

[zoogs]

They are saying that because it is probably true. If you have used goats to clear vegetation before, you know they aren't exactly precise and more work is needed once they are are finished if you want the space to look nice. I do understand the protocol thing but it's pretty obvious to me at least they will still need the student workers

 

Yeah, it may well be. Just pointing out that there's an obvious incentive for the Goat LLC to portray their utility as not just helpful but necessary.

 

In short, this: "The debate on what is safer for workers and easier on equipment is another topic all together".

 

And to clarify my position on this, I don't know where I fall. Maybe the U should be getting more latitude to try innovative stuff like this unfettered! Maybe the grievance is groundless, as I'm sure many are. That fact doesn't equate to a general statement on unions for me, though. And it seems right that there should be a negotiation between the competing interests. If there's a power imbalance, it generally is *not* on the unions' side (which isn't to say they deserve every win). U.S. labor unions have been in decline for decades. That might be a good topic, and here's some reading on it:

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-far-labor-unions-have-fallen-2016-2

https://newrepublic.com/article/139078/whats-behind-decline-american-unions

(I'd read the first one but I'm unwilling to turn off Adblock for it. The second one is a concise summary from a pro-union perspective.)

[funhusker]

 

 

So, if the University purchased a bunch of gas powered weed trimmers, they would complain because people using scissors to cut weeks back would require more grounds keepers.

 

Or....if they would have purchased the goats themselves instead of paying this farmer to bring in their goats, there wouldn't be grounds for complaining........unless the goats would then be considered slave labor.

 

It's an F'ing University where I'm sure kids are racking up large loan amounts to go to school. I'm sure they prefer the University to get rid of the weeds as cheaply as possible.

 

It's a stupid complaint and an example of why Unions get complained about.

 

 

 

 

Maybe the union needs to convince the goats to join.

As you have said before. Some of us were trying to explain why it might not be such a stupid complaint and not a reason to complain. But if you just want to vent about it, I'll let you have you peace to do so.

 

 

+1 to El Diaco's post. I agree, unions can be a pain in the arse. But can also be needed in some professions. Where the "disconnect" comes from, I think, is people equating a "grievance" with a "strike" or "walk out". This was nothing more than a piece of paper filed that someone will have to address at the next negotiation meeting.

 

How much do I know about this situation? What it says in the article.

 

How much do I know about goats and weeds? Actually quite a bit.

 

It's a great idea for the University to use goats in this way.

 

My mother and father are elderly. They hire a lady to come clean weeds out of their landscaping. Every year, they have a guy from down the road put sheep in their wind break to keep the weeds down. I guess the lady cleaning the weeds out of the landscape should file a formal grievance because they don't notify her they are having the sheep delivered.

 

I understand nobody is walking out or striking.

 

No one in this thread has said it isn't. And if your parent's cleaning lady is part of a union; and the windbreak is listed in her job responsibilities in the negotiated terms; then yes, she would most likely let your parents know about it.

 

I'll retell the cleaning lady story in a way that is sympathetic to your parents. Your parents hire a lady and agree to an hourly rate. That cleaning lady took into consideration the cost and time of cleaning out the windbreak and intended to perform the work. She then sees your folks paying someone else money to complete the weed removal. She is still getting paid as if she will perform the work. Your parents are now paying for someone to complete a job that they've already paid for. (Through that lens, it doesn't sound much like saving money)

[Danny Bateman]

I don't really see what the big deal is. It's the union's job to advocate for their members. If they felt like humans could have done an equivalent job and didn't like that goats were used instead, I see no reason they wouldn't file a grievance. It's not like that's going to force the university to stop using goats.

Union looking out for it's members. University chose a cheaper, safer option. I don't think anyone is necessarily wrong here.

[zoogs]

BRB, the hired lady in that scenario is a contract worker with zero power and to whom your parents have no obligation. If she were dependent on groundskeeping for them for a living and they suddenly decided to cut down half her hours by doing this, she'd be SOL. Really great for your parents, really bad for her. This is probably not the case so hopefully everything's fine.

 

But hopefully you can appreciate how nobody would want to be in that situation if they could help it. You're right that it would be really great for the University. You may even be right that it'd be zero impact on all the workers. You should be able to understand their concerns about this sort of practice in general, though, and why advocacy would be proactive about it.

 

 

Also, this article pretty clearly presents just one side of the story, no? Even the hashtag is "#odd".

[funhusker]

I'm amazed this thread is going to reach 2 pages. Guess it is a welcomed change of pace from the regular sh*tshow we have to discuss

[Nebfanatic]

I'm amazed this thread is going to reach 2 pages. Guess it is a welcomed change of pace from the regular sh*tshow we have to discuss

basically lol. I do agree after further thought that the question of whether the goats make it easier/safer/better on equipment is inconsequential to the grievance. I was pointing out there are room for both goats and student workers but I do agree that is another issue entirely

[BigRedBuster]

See....my thread served a greater good of improving the lives of everyone here.