Landlord Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 1 hour ago, BigRedBuster said: Nice sentiment on behalf of Conservative Independent, but one that will be quickly and immediately dismissed by evangelicals with the trope of "We are all evil people deserving of death, and that's why Jesus saved us." A core tenant of the majority of strains inside evangelicalism is to teach you that you are dirty and unclean and inherently bad, and thus need a savior. Vice News did a report on evangelicalism recently featuring interviews with Matt Chandler. Chandler was a huge hero of mine from around 19-24 or so, and even as I have shifted out of conservative/reformed theological thought and even out of evangelicalism entirely he's someone I still greatly respect and view as having a strong backbone of integrity. Hopefully evangelicals can actually see this and see one of their forerunners speaking some truth. 1 Link to comment
funhusker Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Landlord said: Nice sentiment on behalf of Conservative Independent, but one that will be quickly and immediately dismissed by evangelicals with the trope of "We are all evil people deserving of death, and that's why Jesus saved us." A core tenant of the majority of strains inside evangelicalism is to teach you that you are dirty and unclean and inherently bad, and thus need a savior. Vice News did a report on evangelicalism recently featuring interviews with Matt Chandler. Chandler was a huge hero of mine from around 19-24 or so, and even as I have shifted out of conservative/reformed theological thought and even out of evangelicalism entirely he's someone I still greatly respect and view as having a strong backbone of integrity. Hopefully evangelicals can actually see this and see one of their forerunners speaking some truth. The last 30 seconds of that clip is chilling. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 I agree, but what 30 seconds are you referring to? Link to comment
funhusker Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said: I agree, but what 30 seconds are you referring to? "The last 30 seconds" where he admits that a chunk of Evangelicals will embrace their beliefs no matter what the world and/or Jesus says... At least that's how I understood his comments. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 19 minutes ago, funhusker said: "The last 30 seconds" where he admits that a chunk of Evangelicals will embrace their beliefs no matter what the world and/or Jesus says... At least that's how I understood his comments. Ok, I’ll add to that the part about evangelicals latching onto something because of fear.....and lost their souls. That is so dead on right, that it’s scary. Look at the worst human tragedies, they were propagated by fear. I need to hear more more about this guy. Link to comment
Landlord Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 2 hours ago, funhusker said: "The last 30 seconds" where he admits that a chunk of Evangelicals will embrace their beliefs no matter what the world and/or Jesus says... At least that's how I understood his comments. I think that's a mischaracterization. While I do think he is framing an unfair and false dichotomy, what he is getting at is that evangelicals will go one of two ways. Some will continue to shift and adjust within culture, and some will dig in and try holding fast to what they believe is unchanging, eternal truth. Where I think he gets it wrong is the nuance; not acknowledging and admitting that even those who will try to hold strong still live in a very relative system of belief, and those who will change and shift still care about truth. Chandler is incidentally framing it as one group on the side of culture and one group on the side of Christ/Truth and that's not the way of it. But, it is an accurate assessment that one branch of it will continue to be perceived more and more as kooky, out of touch and harmless (going the direction of mormons/Amish), and one branch will continue to have a presence in culture by forsaking ideas and beliefs that were once held as orthodox. Anyways, for how much I disagree with Chandler theologically he's about as straight of a shooter as you can find in American Christianity and I'm a big fan. This is super old, but one of my first introductions to him and a good representation of his willingness to stick to his guns even when it pisses off his tribe: Link to comment
TGHusker Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 On 1/24/2019 at 11:08 AM, knapplc said: Weird how this happens so often - the people who are most vocally anti-gay harbor closeted homosexual urges. I think in trying to beat back their own 'devils' -their own inner conflicts they speak out. If they can shout the loudest they feel they can win the war within. Regardless of what kind of 'war' and against whatever type of 'devil'. I think bad theology can create many of those wars within but also wrong understanding of good theology. God is Love. God isn't anger. God isn't 'Anti". God is For us. "If God is for us, who can be against us?" (hint: no one, no thing. ) Romans 8. The apostle John said simply God is Love. Link to comment
TGHusker Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 On 6/12/2019 at 8:24 PM, BigRedBuster said: I haven't been on this thread for a while. This is a great article that nails it. Nails the failure of American Evangelism. Link to comment
TGHusker Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 21 hours ago, Landlord said: Nice sentiment on behalf of Conservative Independent, but one that will be quickly and immediately dismissed by evangelicals with the trope of "We are all evil people deserving of death, and that's why Jesus saved us." A core tenant of the majority of strains inside evangelicalism is to teach you that you are dirty and unclean and inherently bad, and thus need a savior. Vice News did a report on evangelicalism recently featuring interviews with Matt Chandler. Chandler was a huge hero of mine from around 19-24 or so, and even as I have shifted out of conservative/reformed theological thought and even out of evangelicalism entirely he's someone I still greatly respect and view as having a strong backbone of integrity. Hopefully evangelicals can actually see this and see one of their forerunners speaking some truth. Chandler is one of my favorite guys. In fact we are doing a work lunch video Bible study on Philippians right now which he did a DVD recording in a Dallas home. This is a great video in which he speaks the truth - the need to divorce politics from religion so that religion can be free to do what only it can do - speak to the souls of people in an uplifting way and lifting them out of the pit that they may be in. While I believe 'religious' people should have a voice in the political market place of ideas, the idea of Separation of Church from State wasn't to protect the state but to protect the mission of the church. Once the church becomes so wrapped up into a political philosophy, it can no longer be the church, it has lost its flavor and will be trampled under feet . Once salt became stale in biblical times, it's only good was to be thrown down on the path where it helped keep weeds from growing and thus keeping the path clear for feet to walk on Matthew 5:13. So what will happen when Trump is done with the church - he will throw it down where it has lost all flavor, all mission , all influence to help a hurting world. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 1 minute ago, TGHusker said: Chandler is one of my favorite guys. In fact we are doing a work lunch video Bible study on Philippians right now which he did a DVD recording in a Dallas home. This is a great video in which he speaks the truth - the need to divorce politics from religion so that religion can be free to do what only it can do - speak to the souls of people in an uplifting way and lifting them out of the pit that they may be in. While I believe 'religious' people should have a voice in the political market place of ideas, the idea of Separation of Church from State wasn't to protect the state but to protect the mission of the church. Once the church becomes so wrapped up into a political philosophy, it can no longer be the church, it has lost its flavor and will be trampled under feet . Once salt became stale in biblical times, it's only good was to be thrown down on the path where it helped keep weeds from growing and thus keeping the path clear for feet to walk on Matthew 5:13. So what will happen when Trump is done with the church - he will throw it down where it has lost all flavor, all mission , all influence to help a hurting world. Well....once the church becomes political, it loses all control over its own soul. We are seeing that with their undying love of the Republican Party and now their need to support someone like Trump. 1 Link to comment
TGHusker Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 1 minute ago, BigRedBuster said: Well....once the church becomes political, it loses all control over its own soul. We are seeing that with their undying love of the Republican Party and now their need to support someone like Trump. yes. Back in my days of ignorance, I supported the Moral Majority philosophically. Because they pushed pro-life candidates and I was/am prolife. However, that was the camel's nose that got politics into the church and the church into politics. The greatest thing to happen to the GOP over the last 60 years was the Moral Majority. The worse thing to happen to the American Church over that past 60 years was the Moral Majority. MM founded by Jerry Falwell. Trump's biggest religious supporter Jerry Falwell Jr. 1 Link to comment
Landlord Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 2 hours ago, TGHusker said: in which he speaks the truth - the need to divorce politics from religion so that religion can be free to do what only it can do - speak to the souls of people in an uplifting way and lifting them out of the pit that they may be in. I completely disagree with this and think it's the wrong approach, at least for anyone who identifies as a Christian. Jesus was not politically neutral. He was radically subversive and opposed to the effects of empire, and the effects of legalism. There is political subterfuge and subtext in almost every lesson he ever taught. The gospels are called the gospels because the Romans would send out 'gospel' pamphlets (good news) to conquered citizens (aka, the gospels are in a way satire). Jesus' virgin birth combats Caesar's unique birth story, because those stories were how those who fancied themselves deities set themselves apart. I could go on and on and on, but the point is true religion and spirituality can not be informed by politics, but if you want to be a part of true Christian expression your politics will land not with any party or defined side, but in support and favor and solidarity with the broken, the oppressed, the downtrodden, the abused and the trampled. 1 1 Link to comment
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