What did we learn? (The NW edition, sponsored by the MASH 4077)

[ColoradoHusk]

3 minutes ago, 3rd and long said:

How do you know he didn’t have any reads. He probably knows Frost’s offense and the  playbook better than AM does. He shouldn’t have been simplifying it for him. 

He does have the knowledge, but not the first team reps in practice and as many reps in games. I am speculating, but I would not be surprised if Frost was telling Vedral to keep or give on specific “read plays”. This would have been done to limit confusion at the mesh point and to be conservative with the offense in the situation. 

[Mavric]

26 minutes ago, RedSavage said:

Would you say Martinez has or has not made the most of what he’s been asked to do, and been give for majority of the season?

 

This is a completely different argument.

 

26 minutes ago, RedSavage said:

That’s the difference.  You can only do so much with what you’re given.  That was my  whole original point of Vedral pretty much making the most of every play.  

 

Even this does not necessarily mean that he was operating the offense any better than Martinez.

 

On Vedral's second play, he scanned the field for about two second and then, despite not being under any pressure, he threw to Mills 7 yards behind the line and we ended up losing three yards.  It seems like that was not the most we could have done on that play.

On his third play, he pulled the zone read and forced his way into the middle of the line for three yards.  It sure looks like Mills had a clean path with blockers around the left side.  Definitely looks like we would have had a big gain had he given the ball to Mills.

He let a high snap get past him and had to throw it away.  Martinez has almost always been able to grab those high snaps and try to do something with them.  

On the next play he bobbled a high snap and was unable to convert a 3rd & 1 when it looks like there may have been a hole to squeeze through had he gotten there a count quicker.

On his third possession, NW only rushed three on the first play but got a little pressure.  It looks like there was room to step up and run but he scrambles sideways and has to throw it away.

On the next play he gives on the zone read and we lose four yards.  Probably does better than that if he keeps it.

 

So I'm pretty sure he was a long ways from making the most of every play.  He threw one nice pass and looked good on the designed QB runs.  But that's not a great percentage of the 16 snaps he got.

[Nebfanatic]

43 minutes ago, BlitzFirst said:

 

yeah I don't know why to be honest.  Frost put in McCafferry and burned an entire game for 1 play when he could have put in Bunch and not burned anything

 

I think Frost is a moron for doing that to be honest.

 

Why would they have put Bunch in? That is dumb. They were probably seeing the success Vedral had running the ball and wanted to see if our best athlete at QB could rip off a big run. Bunch is not capeable of a big run.

[Mavric]

15 minutes ago, CapoValley said:

I suppose it all depends on your perception on how things actually are. Some would agree with me, some, including you, wouldn’t.  

 

So basically I'm doing the same that that you do but from the other side of the coin.  But you apparently don't like that.

 

15 minutes ago, CapoValley said:

Did you make a post how we weren’t shut out when Riley got obliterated by Ohio st in 2016?  It was still a neat stat. 

 

Did anyone tweet about it?  If so perhaps I missed it.  But please keep going down this rabbit hole.

[Mavric]

Just now, Nebfanatic said:

Why would they have put Bunch in? That is dumb. They were probably seeing the success Vedral had running the ball and wanted to see if our best athlete at QB could rip off a big run. Bunch is not capeable of a big run.

 

I think it would have made sense to put Bunch in because they knew it was just for one play and that's a bad way to use up one of McCaffrey's games.

 

But I didn't think about it until the day after.  Perhaps he wasn't readily available as they weren't expecting to need him.

[Mavric]

12 minutes ago, 3rd and long said:

How do you know he didn’t have any reads. He probably knows Frost’s offense and the  playbook better than AM does. He shouldn’t have been simplifying it for him. 

 

He didn't have any reads because there weren't any unblocked defenders.  And I'm pretty sure on at least one of them there weren't any backs either.

[Nebfanatic]

Just now, Mavric said:

 

I think it would have made sense to put Bunch in because they knew it was just for one play and that's a bad way to use up one of McCaffrey's games.

 

But I didn't think about it until the day after.  Perhaps he wasn't readily available as they weren't expecting to need him.

Did Vedral lose a helmet or did they just sub #7 in for no apparent reason? I did think it was pretty strange but I chalked it up to trying to get the ball in one of our faster players hands. If it was equipment related or something, hell Masker would have been better than 7. Either way I suppose there are probably better ways to handle that.

[ColoradoHusk]

1 minute ago, Mavric said:

 

I think it would have made sense to put Bunch in because they knew it was just for one play and that's a bad way to use up one of McCaffrey's games.

 

But I didn't think about it until the day after.  Perhaps he wasn't readily available as they weren't expecting to need him.

With Vedral going in, they probably told McCaffrey “get your helmet, you’re next if anything happens”. It’s tough to think in the moment “let’s put Bunch in because it’s only going to be one play”. Also, NU was trying to get a first down, keep the offense on the field, and win the game. McCaffrey was the next best QB to go in for that situation. 

[ColoradoHusk]

1 minute ago, Nebfanatic said:

Did Vedral lose a helmet or did they just sub #7 in for no apparent reason? I did think it was pretty strange but I chalked it up to trying to get the ball in one of our faster players hands. If it was equipment related or something, hell Masker would have been better than 7. Either way I suppose there are probably better ways to handle that.

Vedral’s helmet came off during a play, forcing him to sit out one play by rule. It stinks to burn one of McCaffrey’s 4 games on one play, but considering that was his first action of the year, I would have been surprised if he played in 4 games this season. 

[LumberJackSker]

4 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

Did Vedral lose a helmet or did they just sub #7 in for no apparent reason? I did think it was pretty strange but I chalked it up to trying to get the ball in one of our faster players hands. If it was equipment related or something, hell Masker would have been better than 7. Either way I suppose there are probably better ways to handle that.

Yes

[Nebfanatic]

1 minute ago, ColoradoHusk said:

Vedral’s helmet came off during a play, forcing him to sit out one play by rule. It stinks to burn one of McCaffrey’s 4 games on one play, but considering that was his first action of the year, I would have been surprised if he played in 4 games this season. 

I was sitting in South endzone and I missed that. Thanks!

[3rd and long]

12 minutes ago, ColoradoHusk said:

He does have the knowledge, but not the first team reps in practice and as many reps in games. I am speculating, but I would not be surprised if Frost was telling Vedral to keep or give on specific “read plays”. This would have been done to limit confusion at the mesh point and to be conservative with the offense in the situation. 

That does make sense. But Frost doesn’t strike me as the type to limit him too much. 

 

Butting also does kind of fit with the overall conservative scheme of the night. 

[3rd and long]

8 minutes ago, Mavric said:

 

He didn't have any reads because there weren't any unblocked defenders.  And I'm pretty sure on at least one of them there weren't any backs either.

Thanks. Watching grandkids at that specific time so wasn’t watching closely enough to notice the details. 

[CapoValley]

13 minutes ago, Mavric said:

 

So basically I'm doing the same that that you do but from the other side of the coin.  But you apparently don't like that.

 

 

Did anyone tweet about it?  If so perhaps I missed it.  But please keep going down this rabbit hole.

I agree. I’m talking about what I see from this team and where they are. 

 

I wouldnt say i dislike what you say, but I would say you do so with an amount of snark I’ve been cautioned about and frankly I think it’s a little unfair 

[ColoradoHusk]

1 minute ago, 3rd and long said:

That does make sense. But Frost doesn’t strike me as the type to limit him too much. 

 

Butting also does kind of fit with the overall conservative scheme of the night. 

If Vedral starts against Minnesota, I thinks Frost opens up the playbook more for him. Part in that he will have practiced all week with the #1’s and part that I think Frost will need to be more aggressive against Minnesota (they have a stronger O and weaker D compared to NW).