RedDenver Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 1 minute ago, knapplc said: This is the only actual reason for this argument. All other explanations are window dressing. correct 1 Link to comment
Redux Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 3 minutes ago, Moiraine said: Exactly. @Redux why should states matter in a presidential election? It should be an arbitrary line when it comes to this. The Senate represents people from each state. The House represents people from each distritct. The president represents people of the U.S. Things are already lopsided in favor of low population areas due to the Senate and ease of gerrymandering in higher population areas. The vote for president at the very least should be done fairly and logically. See previous response, because it's the President of the United States. States govern individually. Those "imaginary" lines exist to protect individual state laws etc. Why ignore that there are 50 individual states when it comes to electing who presides over them all? They are all different, why pretend that's not true? I would like a candidate earn my states vote instead of only focusing on like 3 or 4 cities total. Link to comment
RedDenver Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 1 minute ago, Redux said: So what? We could arbitrarily redraw the county lines and change that. You're advocating for "amount of land" as the way we weight our elections instead of democracy. 1 Link to comment
Moiraine Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 2 minutes ago, Redux said: Again, so? More people live there. States with lower populations, no matter how sparsely populated, will always have a large voice in the government due to the Senate. And people need to get rid of this insane notion that people in a city are a lot different than people not in a city and that states are some hive mind blob of thinking. We should all be worth 1 vote regardless of where we live. 1 Link to comment
Redux Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 Just now, RedDenver said: So what? We could arbitrarily redraw the county lines and change that. You're advocating for "amount of land" as the way we weight our elections instead of democracy. No I'm advocating that each state matters. If I were doing what you're suggesting I'd say "Every state should have 1 electoral college vote" which would be absurd. 1 Link to comment
knapplc Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 4 minutes ago, Redux said: Right. I was actually referencing this in my response to @DevoHusker a bit ago. This graphic is an argument against the Electoral College. You get that, right? Link to comment
Redux Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 Just now, Moiraine said: Again, so? More people live there. States with lower populations, no matter how sparsely populated, will always have a large voice in the government due to the Senate. And people need to get rid of this insane notion that people in a city are a lot different than people not in a city and that states are some hive mind blob of thinking. We should all be worth 1 vote regardless of where we live. We aren't talking about the Senate, we are talking about votes mattering. You are seriously saying people from different cities and states aren't different? That's absurd. 1 Link to comment
Redux Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 Just now, knapplc said: Right. I was actually referencing this in my response to @DevoHusker a bit ago. This graphic is an argument against the Electoral College. You get that, right? I previously used it to shut up a Trumper who said that number of counties won was proof Trump won. The point I'm making is that even with the EC, the large metropolitan areas STILL have a distinct advantage. Take away individual voice from states and 40 or more states voices are lost forever. 1 Link to comment
RedDenver Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 1 minute ago, Redux said: I previously used it to shut up a Trumper who said that number of counties won was proof Trump won. The point I'm making is that even with the EC, the large metropolitan areas STILL have a distinct advantage. Take away individual voice from states and 40 or more states voices are lost forever. Instead the majority voice of Americans is currently being lost to support a minority in rural states. Again, rural states have the Senate as their means of not losing their voice. They don't also need a disproportionate voting power for President as well. 4 Link to comment
knapplc Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 Just now, Redux said: I previously used it to shut up a Trumper who said that number of counties won was proof Trump won. The point I'm making is that even with the EC, the large metropolitan areas STILL have a distinct advantage. Take away individual voice from states and 40 or more states voices are lost forever. The point you're making is wrong, and it's a farce you've been sold by a party desperate to stay in power. 3 Link to comment
Moiraine Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 Just now, Redux said: We aren't talking about the Senate, we are talking about votes mattering. You are seriously saying people from different cities and states aren't different? That's absurd. I said they aren’t a lot different, because they aren’t. Poor people in Chicago are not a lot different than poor people in Grand Island. If you polled them and made it apolitical they would say most of the same things are important. You often complain about the 2 political parties pitting people against each other. Part of what they’ve done is make people scared of others based on where they live. The Senate is a logical part of any topic where someone complains about states having votes. The Senators represent the people in their states on the whole. What you are talking about with states mattering should not be relevant for a presidential election. The president is supposed to represent each person equally. 1 Link to comment
Redux Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 Just now, knapplc said: The point you're making is wrong, and it's a farce you've been sold by a party desperate to stay in power. This is all projection based off of opinion 1 Link to comment
knapplc Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 1 minute ago, Redux said: This is all projection based off of opinion It's objective fact based off math. Your opinion is that you don't want to lose the disproportional power the EC gives rural voters. Math says 1 person = 1 vote. 3 Link to comment
Redux Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 Just now, Moiraine said: I said they aren’t a lot different, because they aren’t. Poor people in Chicago are not a lot different than poor people in Grand Island. If you polled them and made it apolitical they would say most of the same things are important. You often complain about the 2 political parties pitting people against each other. Part of what they’ve done is make people scared of others based on where they live. The Senate is a logical part of any topic where someone complains about states having votes. The Senators represent the people in their states on the whole. What you are talking about with states mattering should not be relevant for a presidential election. The president is supposed to represent each person equally. And the President represents each person by presiding over each state. Every state has it's own identity and it should be that way. Removing those "arbitrary" lines removes a balance in voting. Link to comment
Redux Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 Just now, knapplc said: It's objective fact based off math. Your opinion is that you don't want to lose the disproportional power the EC gives rural voters. Math says 1 person = 1 vote. You can say it over and over and over, that doesn't make it right. 1 person DOES equal 1 vote currently. And once those 1 votes are tallied, they decide each state. It is basic math! 1 Link to comment
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