Who left the biggest black eye on the Program?

[knapplc]

That state of mind is similar to saying Eric Crouch's college career is diminished because he now sells playground equipment.

 

But it's good playground equipment. My kid's school bought some.

[Enhance]

That state of mind is similar to saying Eric Crouch's college career is diminished because he now sells playground equipment.

 

But it's good playground equipment. My kid's school bought some.

Haha I've actually driven by it a few times. Makes me wish I was 10 again.

[knapplc]

That state of mind is similar to saying Eric Crouch's college career is diminished because he now sells playground equipment.

 

But it's good playground equipment. My kid's school bought some.

Haha I've actually driven by it a few times. Makes me wish I was 10 again.

WAT!

 

[Captain K]

I think we feel people remember the name Lawrence Phillips more than we think. We're Nebraska-centric, sure, we can't forget, but your average college football fan doesn't remember him anymore than you remember the one from their school.

Speak for yourself, Mr. Nebraska-centric. I've spent time on a LOT of message boards. Lawrence Phillips is still associated with Nebraska by fans old enough to remember his name 14 years after he played for us. Two years after Pedey's departure, nobody even knows who he is. It's not even close out there in the real world.

 

Go hang out on ESPN's boards, Yahoo's comments sections, CBS' boards, or Rivals or anywhere that college football is discussed and you'll see a Lawrence Phillips comment made frequently when a Husker fan is involved in a heated argument. It's still the go-to "slam" people toss out there. Failing to see how that affects this program's image and the damage his association with our school has done is myopic.

 

 

This whole argument is apples and oranges and can't be won by either side. It is really hard to even define what is a black eye.

This is true.

Your average fan does not hang out on message boards. You went to the hard-core fans for your example. Only losers and idiots hang out on message boards anyway.

 

Also, you are equating name recognition with damage to the program. You are a smart guy, I don't have to explain to you how that makes no sense whatsoever. So SP didn't cause any harm to the football program because people don't recall his name? Lee Harvey Oswald killed one guy, his name is more recognizable to people than those Columbine kids, but who did more killing?

 

People only bring up LP to make a Nebraska fan feel bad about being associated with the Huskers. How does that hurt anyone? LP did some heinous things and I'm not saying he isn't the worst person to ever be associated with NU, he just isn't hurting our program anymore and that is not being myopic.

[HUSKER 37]

...I am begining to think that our hardest critcs are ourselves. As the old saying goes, "We searched for our enemy only to find that he was us."

T_O_B

 

 

Probably as it should be.

 

You never want your opponent to be able to point out your flaws...Take away their momentum/ammunition.

 

In a way...It's Sorta like when Mom said, "You are in SO much trouble..Just wait 'till yer Dad gets home". Then you start trying to think of ways to punnish yourself hoping he'd take pity on you and not kill you until you were dead.

 

 

By our fans being the first to remind the outside world that we didn't forget, we demonstrate the fact that this is NOT the kind of stuff we will accept.

 

Phillips is a handy scapegoat.

There were other players that I still feel did worse while at UNL.

LP was the all too noticable tip of the iceburg.

 

But Tom Osborne's refusal to kick him off the team caused the most damage to our all important "image".

And it's hard to argue that we weren't a Win-at-all-costs program mainly because of that.

 

Black eyes only last a few days.

 

Probably all the choices in this poll should be considered much more than a black eye.

 

I wavered a little after reading some mighty persuasive arguments...But I went with the person that affected ME the most in a negative way.

 

I couldn't even get my Son on the field last Summer to throw the ball around. (Even after convincing a couple of the guards I was really Dave Rimmington).

He might never feel the "electricity" you feel when you stand at midfield, and dream about what might be.

[knapplc]

Your average fan does not hang out on message boards. You went to the hard-core fans for your example. Only losers and idiots hang out on message boards anyway.

 

Also, you are equating name recognition with damage to the program. You are a smart guy, I don't have to explain to you how that makes no sense whatsoever. So SP didn't cause any harm to the football program because people don't recall his name? Lee Harvey Oswald killed one guy, his name is more recognizable to people than those Columbine kids, but who did more killing?

 

People only bring up LP to make a Nebraska fan feel bad about being associated with the Huskers. How does that hurt anyone? LP did some heinous things and I'm not saying he isn't the worst person to ever be associated with NU, he just isn't hurting our program anymore and that is not being myopic.

 

You're confusing name recognition with the larger issue, which is branding. Miami made a name for itself as Thug U, a position which they embraced wholeheartedly, and which worked for them. Nebraska is the antithesis of that, or at least, that was the perception (and since you're a smart guy, I don't have to explain to you how perception is reality), and we all know there is nothing more dangerous than unrealized expectations. If we don't realize that, look at Tiger Woods, whose brand has been destroyed not because he's become a bad golfer, but because he failed to live up to the squeaky-clean expectations people put on him.

 

Again, there isn't a football aficionado who will denounce a team for a bad coach, even a bad AD who hires a bad coach. But there are legions of people ready to rip down, say, Notre Dame if they suddenly have a spate of drug-using thugs on their roster. That's why Lawrence Phillips is so damaging to Nebraska. He went so totally against the grain of what people perceive us to be that they likely will never forget it.

 

It has very little to do with wins and losses, or bowl streaks. Those are purely internal concerns that the vast majority of college football fans and pundits care nothing about. What they care about is who you are, and how you fit into the pantheon of college football. We were branded as the "aww, shucks" hicks of college football, hicks who made it big. Our aww, shucks coach fit right into that branding, and the whole stereotype, fair or unfair, was perpetuated for 20 years. Then came the mid-90s and the Lawrence Phillipses of that era, and we were taken off our comfy pedestal and rebranded in the eyes of many, many fans and pundits as poseurs, fakes, frauds.

 

It's clear that, as Phillips' name is brought up again and again as a scourge with which to flail Husker fans, that his is truly "the gift that keeps on giving."

 

Look beyond the box that is Husker Fandom and see what Phillips truly did to our image. Then you'll realize it goes so much further than our internal traditions, and that Pederson is largely irrelevant in this conversation.

[Enhance]

That state of mind is similar to saying Eric Crouch's college career is diminished because he now sells playground equipment.

 

But it's good playground equipment. My kid's school bought some.

Haha I've actually driven by it a few times. Makes me wish I was 10 again.

WAT!

 

lmao no, not your place knapplc.

 

I meant his place of business where he has displays.

[HUSKER 37]

... there isn't a football aficionado who will denounce a team for a bad coach, even a bad AD who hires a bad coach. But there are legions of people ready to rip down, say, Notre Dame if they suddenly have a spate of drug-using thugs on their roster. That's why Lawrence Phillips is so damaging to Nebraska. He went so totally against the grain of what people perceive us to be that they likely will never forget it.

 

...

Look beyond the box that is Husker Fandom and see what Phillips truly did to our image. Then you'll realize it goes so much further than our internal traditions, and that Pederson is largely irrelevant in this conversation.

 

Funny you mentioned Notre Dame.

That's exactly the team I was thinking of when you wrote,"there isn't a football aficionado who will denounce a team for a bad coach".

 

I will probably always hate ND because of Lou Holtz, and the way he treated his players and assistants... AND for getting so little output out of so many great recruiting classes...I was even previously a little bit of a fan when Ara Parseghian was there.

 

And other fans (outside Nebraska) I run into usually don't remember Larence Phillips by name anymore..They just either say they have a lot of respect for Coach Osborne, or the mean ones might say something about "the criminalS he kept on his teams".

 

LP didn't cause us to lose any games, or "settle/drift? into mediocrity".

He didn't make me fear the likes of Kansas, Texas Tech, or Oklahoma State.

 

There will probably always be players that come along that will be better off away from the general public...But I really hope we never get an AD bent on leaving his mark on us like that ever again.

 

True..We used to "feel" superior to the rest of the College Football landscape because we were "doing things the right way" <cough>..<Steroids>....but we did have a Heisman trophy winner that robbed a gas station with a starter pistol? accd. to legend.

[VA Husker Fan]

This whole argument is apples and oranges and can't be won by either side. It is really hard to even define what is a black eye.

Very true, and I'm not even sure what the point is to win the argument. It's not like we get to make a choice of having one over the other. We are stuck with both. And if the question is which one you'd like to avoid in the future, my answer is "Yes".

 

To me it's kind of like the annoying question you hear asked in a post-game interview, "Was this the biggest moment/win/whatever of your life?" Why does that person have to measure two different things, as if he'd have to give up one for the other?

 

But it is interesting to see and discuss which event/person people consider the bigger black eye. I'm not wrong for picking Phillips. Others aren't wrong for picking Pederson. It's our own opinions.

[REDSTEEL]

I think we feel people remember the name Lawrence Phillips more than we think. We're Nebraska-centric, sure, we can't forget, but your average college football fan doesn't remember him anymore than you remember the one from their school.

Speak for yourself, Mr. Nebraska-centric. I've spent time on a LOT of message boards. Lawrence Phillips is still associated with Nebraska by fans old enough to remember his name 14 years after he played for us. Two years after Pedey's departure, nobody even knows who he is. It's not even close out there in the real world.

 

Go hang out on ESPN's boards, Yahoo's comments sections, CBS' boards, or Rivals or anywhere that college football is discussed and you'll see a Lawrence Phillips comment made frequently when a Husker fan is involved in a heated argument. It's still the go-to "slam" people toss out there. Failing to see how that affects this program's image and the damage his association with our school has done is myopic

 

 

So the trolls on ESPN message board bringup LP how can you ever get over that?

 

Now try being a Iowa State fan and make a comment on that same board the comments you will probably hear "Does Iowa Sate even have a team?" or What does a Iowa State fan know about football". Now Pederson was taking Nebraska down the road where Nebraska was irelevant as that and he had to be fired in order to save the program.

 

I still hear who people bring up a certain Heisman winner that robbed a gas station when he was a freshman. Now think of what would have happened if they had the internet back then. You probably couldn't even admit your a Nebraska fan.

[T_O_Bull]

I think we feel people remember the name Lawrence Phillips more than we think. We're Nebraska-centric, sure, we can't forget, but your average college football fan doesn't remember him anymore than you remember the one from their school.

Speak for yourself, Mr. Nebraska-centric. I've spent time on a LOT of message boards. Lawrence Phillips is still associated with Nebraska by fans old enough to remember his name 14 years after he played for us. Two years after Pedey's departure, nobody even knows who he is. It's not even close out there in the real world.

 

Go hang out on ESPN's boards, Yahoo's comments sections, CBS' boards, or Rivals or anywhere that college football is discussed and you'll see a Lawrence Phillips comment made frequently when a Husker fan is involved in a heated argument. It's still the go-to "slam" people toss out there. Failing to see how that affects this program's image and the damage his association with our school has done is myopic

 

The fact that these people have to throw out LP's as their come back or argument against Nebraska is rather good for us actually. If that's the only ammunition they have then their game is real weak.

T_O_B

[knapplc]

Go hang out on ESPN's boards, Yahoo's comments sections, CBS' boards, or Rivals or anywhere that college football is discussed and you'll see a Lawrence Phillips comment made frequently when a Husker fan is involved in a heated argument. It's still the go-to "slam" people toss out there. Failing to see how that affects this program's image and the damage his association with our school has done is myopic

 

 

So the trolls on ESPN message board bringup LP how can you ever get over that?

 

It's not that I have to "get over it" the point is that it's still being brought up. That's all.

[SealBeachHusker]

I chose Cally, based on the "perception" problems for most of the country. Most have NO idea who Pedey, and LP was a failed NFL player when the worst of his actions occurred. Thunder, no one knows or cares about outside of Nebraska and Nebraska fans. But, football folks know Callahan, and they know of him as the ex-Raiders coach who ruined Nebraska. Even with several successful Pelini years, the Callahan years will long be known as our dark days. Like our very own Fairbanks...lol. Pedey? Non-Huskers have no idea who he is...but, argument could easily be made that it's all his fault.

[SealBeachHusker]

I think we feel people remember the name Lawrence Phillips more than we think. We're Nebraska-centric, sure, we can't forget, but your average college football fan doesn't remember him anymore than you remember the one from their school.

Speak for yourself, Mr. Nebraska-centric. I've spent time on a LOT of message boards. Lawrence Phillips is still associated with Nebraska by fans old enough to remember his name 14 years after he played for us. Two years after Pedey's departure, nobody even knows who he is. It's not even close out there in the real world.

 

Go hang out on ESPN's boards, Yahoo's comments sections, CBS' boards, or Rivals or anywhere that college football is discussed and you'll see a Lawrence Phillips comment made frequently when a Husker fan is involved in a heated argument. It's still the go-to "slam" people toss out there. Failing to see how that affects this program's image and the damage his association with our school has done is myopic

 

The fact that these people have to throw out LP's as their come back or argument against Nebraska is rather good for us actually. If that's the only ammunition they have then their game is real weak.

T_O_B

 

I think LP is thrown out like people throw out OJ for USC. It's a last ditch effort, but really....how much does OJ hurt the perception of USC? Not much. And, most people know LP much more for his crash and burn stuff after Nebraska.

[Herd Husker]

1. Pederson 2. Lawerence Phillips 3. Randy Stella (was a pre season all American and got booted off the team for an unknown reason).