Football Scoop: KU fires Gill

[fro daddy]

Didn't see Fro's comment....

 

I agree with most but to say the championship season in Buffalo was a fluke is not accurate. I mean what happened in Buffalo may very well be the lucky bounce all season but it still happened and those kids did play tough and kept a lot of games close. What he did with that paltry program was a credit to him and his staff. Gill will get another shot and I'll be anxious to see how it turns out. KU just might have been the wrong job at the wrong time for him.

 

I didnt mean to imply it was a complete fluke. Yes the kids played hard and the coaches worked hard and they fought like hell to win every game. But they were an average MAC team that got all the bounces. The MAC championship game alone was one of the weirdest games I have seen. Ball State was CLEARLY better than Buffalo in every area. But Buffalo won that game on some freak plays. Ball State went right down the field all night but pissed it away everytime. I remember on two straight trips they fumble once going into the endzone and buffalo returned it 90 some yds for a td, then the next position they snapped the ball to no one and buffalo returned it like 80 yrds for a td. It was just a weird game.

 

yes buffalo worked hard and capitalized on those plays. But in regards to Turner, that was his one winning season out of 6 season in his career. To me he belongs in the MAC or a conference like that until he can prove he can win regularly. He seems to be a really good guy, but i dont think he was ready and went to a job that you have to be on your game to do well at.

[NUance]

Poor Turner. It’s hard to get out from Mangino’s shadow. (That was a fat joke, btw.)

[Nexus]

Poor Turner. It’s hard to get out from Mangino’s shadow. (That was a fat joke, btw.)

 

Mangino is tracing your IP address. Prepare to be gorged.

[NUance]

Poor Turner. It’s hard to get out from Mangino’s shadow. (That was a fat joke, btw.)

 

Mangino is tracing your IP address. Prepare to be gorged.

 

No way. I'm making a run for it!

[Nexus]

Poor Turner. It’s hard to get out from Mangino’s shadow. (That was a fat joke, btw.)

 

Mangino is tracing your IP address. Prepare to be gorged.

 

No way. I'm making a run for it!

 

Classic!

[HuskerTrucker]

Kansas us screwing themselves. Any potential hire is going to take notice that they only gave him 2 years to turn the program around before giving him the boot. If I were them, I would demand a HUGE severance package in the event that they were fired before the end of the 4th season to protect themselves.

[krill]

You make some good points fro, but Gill did vastly improve Buffalo...look at their record after they moved up from I-AA, they won 12 games in 7 years.

 

I just think this a really bad precedent being set here for 2 years. Unless there are other issues every coach going into a troubled program deserves at least 4 years to recruit a team and see how they do, and Gill was recruiting fairly well all things considered. Take the 4 close games they had with Tech, ISU, Baylor and Mizzou and pretend for a moment they had found a way to win 2 of them. How much different is that team? Not that much...heck they even rolled with OU for a half.

[Haspula]

Qb coach?

[irafreak]

Didn't see Fro's comment....

 

I agree with most but to say the championship season in Buffalo was a fluke is not accurate. I mean what happened in Buffalo may very well be the lucky bounce all season but it still happened and those kids did play tough and kept a lot of games close. What he did with that paltry program was a credit to him and his staff. Gill will get another shot and I'll be anxious to see how it turns out. KU just might have been the wrong job at the wrong time for him.

 

I didnt mean to imply it was a complete fluke. Yes the kids played hard and the coaches worked hard and they fought like hell to win every game. But they were an average MAC team that got all the bounces. The MAC championship game alone was one of the weirdest games I have seen. Ball State was CLEARLY better than Buffalo in every area. But Buffalo won that game on some freak plays. Ball State went right down the field all night but pissed it away everytime. I remember on two straight trips they fumble once going into the endzone and buffalo returned it 90 some yds for a td, then the next position they snapped the ball to no one and buffalo returned it like 80 yrds for a td. It was just a weird game.

 

yes buffalo worked hard and capitalized on those plays. But in regards to Turner, that was his one winning season out of 6 season in his career. To me he belongs in the MAC or a conference like that until he can prove he can win regularly. He seems to be a really good guy, but i dont think he was ready and went to a job that you have to be on your game to do well at.

Agreed. The jump was too much too soon. I think he is a fine coach and can succeed right now in the MAC, WAC, or Mountain West. Conference USA is a little stronger overall. I have that title game on dvd and you're right. it was back to back fumble returns for a TD but they still won by several scores. I just feel like the chemistry is wrong. Those kids played hard at Buffalo for him....

[huKSer]

Gill finished 5-19 @ Kansas. If history is kind to him, with the ol' transitive property logic applied, he'll win a national title really soon at his next destination.

 

I present to you, exhibit A:

 

Gene Chizik.

 

Chizik went 5-19 @ Iowa State before taking the Auburn job. He's now 29-10 @ Auburn.

 

The Granny of Manhattan was 6-17 his first two seasons

[ladyhawke]

The other Big 12 coaches didn't like it that Gill was fired either. Coaches need to band together and try in some way to stop this revolving door hiring firing after only 2 years! What's next? 1 and you're done? Good Grief!

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/40358/big-12-coaches-not-fans-of-hasty-gill-exit

[fro daddy]

You make some good points fro, but Gill did vastly improve Buffalo...look at their record after they moved up from I-AA, they won 12 games in 7 years.

 

I just think this a really bad precedent being set here for 2 years. Unless there are other issues every coach going into a troubled program deserves at least 4 years to recruit a team and see how they do, and Gill was recruiting fairly well all things considered. Take the 4 close games they had with Tech, ISU, Baylor and Mizzou and pretend for a moment they had found a way to win 2 of them. How much different is that team? Not that much...heck they even rolled with OU for a half.

 

let me first say this, I am not saying Gill can not coach. I am just saying he was over his head in the big12. He did a nice job at Buffalo and I think he can and will again do a nice job at a mid major type school. I just dont think he was ready for the 'big time'.

 

Also, I am not for cutting coaches after two years. However there are times when frankly I dont think there is a bit of difference between doing it after year 2 or 3. When there is no growth in a program you have to cut bait. You can choose to make a move now or wait another year and fall another year behind. I frankly dont think it would have mattered if ku kept him for 5 more years. I would have been five more years of 2-5 wins. Maybe that still happens, but i think there is no doubt it would have under Gill. ku was not losing closely and this was not the wildcat team Snyder took over. That was the worst program in D-1 by a long shot. So bad that even with everything he has done after all these years they are still 100+ games under .500 all time. (474-612-41) KU is no power house, but you can be compititive and fight to make bowls. But as you implied in those "close" games, if ku had won, he would not have been fired. However, looking closer at those games will only add fuel to the fire than led to him being fired.

 

#1 he lost by 28 pts on avg in conference this year even with nearly 1/2 of their games be closer.

 

#2 Mizzou 10-24. Its ku's superbowl. With that said, Franklin threw three straight balls to ku defenders on some REALLY bad throws. Those ints lead to ku's 10 pts. (one returned for a TD, the other lead to a drive that lost yrds but they made a FG). Mu really played pretty poorly, and extreamly poor for an entire half. With that said ku still blew a 7 pt halftime lead and lost by 14 pts. Any decent team would have run MU off the field in the first half. But i was never worried. Why you might ask...well because ku ended with 130 yrds of offence and nearly 50 of that came on their last drive. They could do nothing. NO matter how bad Mizzou played they were going to win.

 

#3 Texas Tech 34-45. Ku roared out to a 20 pt lead. only to have TT score 45 of the next 52 pts in the game. KU added a late TD with a couple of mins left to get it within 2 scores at the final. BTW TT is 2-7 in conference

 

#4 Baylor. 30-31. Baylor is a good team, and possible has the best player in all of college football. KU was primed to shock the world with a big upset. Ku lead 24-3 in the 4th qtr and Baylors only pts had come on a kick at the end of the first half. It was then that with just under 13 mins left in the game that Baylor scored 3 tds to get to OT. Those TD drives were: 5 plays, 89 yrds 1:07, 6 plays, 98 yrds, 1:53 & 3 plays, 80 yrds, 0:35. Ku played their best game of the year and let Baylor go for 267 yards in 14 plays in just 3:35 mins. BTW this remains Baylors only road win for the year.

 

#5 ISU 10-13. Just an overall ugly game. But they were able to keep it close. Nothing really negative about this besides its a loss. Jack Trice can be a tricky place to play and ISU was an up and down team.

 

He didnt really help himself. Even when teams over looked them (Baylor), when teams played really poorly (Mizzou), when they jumped out to huge leads against bad teams (Texas Tech) & when they found themselves in an somewhat even match-up (ISU) they lost every time. Add that to getting completly wiped off the field by 40+ pts four times this year and showing little to no progression and even could be argued regression from last year and you get fired. If they had kept it close. If they had been compititive in games i think he is still there. But he wasnt, so he isnt.

 

Agreed. The jump was too much too soon. I think he is a fine coach and can succeed right now in the MAC, WAC, or Mountain West. Conference USA is a little stronger overall. I have that title game on dvd and you're right. it was back to back fumble returns for a TD but they still won by several scores. I just feel like the chemistry is wrong. Those kids played hard at Buffalo for him....

 

If i remember correctly the Bulls had like 4 scoring drives that were under 30 yrds. They had those returns and were giving the ball right outside or in scoring postion another 4 times. You would have to check because its been years, but its just one of the games that you see and dont really forget. (I guess I could always search a boxscore also. LOL) Anyway, IMHO GIll came in a tried to change alot of things; including taking players phones away a few days before games and keeping them until after games. Not allowing contact with girlfriends, getting rid of all individualilty for the players and playing ultra nice (cuss jars). Alot of these players were with a gruff, mean old bastard of a coach and now they had a church choir leader. They had someone who was demanding but treated them like men, now they have someone telling them what to do like they are young children and holding their hands. I am sure that effected the older players. As for the younger players, he played alot of them and out of position at that. Some obviously liked Turner, some chose KU cause they had no other options. It seemed like 1/2 the team really went all out for him and 1/2 went through the motions. But agian, that all comes down on the coach.

[gratefullred]

Just a strange 2 year tenure for a coach. He didn't bring much of his Buffalo staff if any to Kansas. Instead he hired assistants with Big12 experience. All the team rules were strange. It obiviously wasn't working.

 

To give a guy just 2 years shows the change in college football. I doubt he could have got 6 wins in year 3, but think he should have the chance. A factor in this decision has to be conference realignment. Your football team has to have a pulse to be a candidate for the B1G, ACC, or SEC. It dosen't seem right, but I don't blame KU. Good luck to the next guy, KU is always going to be a tough place to succeed.

[jayhawk]

obviously i am no fan of kansas. But lets get real here. Gill did a poor job. Yes ku is not set up to win at football, but niether is ISU. But Paul Rhodes can coach. Infact he is a darn good coach. Gill...not so much. Look at the facts here.

 

Gills record at KU: 5-19 (.263)

Big 12 record: 1-16 (.062)

His one big 12 win consisted of a 35 pt 4th quarter to finish a 28 pt comeback against a piss poor CU team that was 2-6 in conference.

He lost to a 1-AA team

His avg margin of victory was 11.4 pts. Take out a 26pt win over NM State in 2010 and 18 pts over 1-AA Mcneese St. and that margin of victory is 4.3 pts

On the other hand his avg margin of defeat is 27.36 pts per. (28.56 in conference play)

Ku ranks last or next to last in 19 of 26 catagories in big12 conference stats.

 

They suck. They are not well coached. They get blown out. And they have done so for 2 straight years (24 games) will little to no improvement in any area of their team.

 

Frankly I think Gill gets out of this okay. He had little to no business getting a BCS job to begin with and then he got 2 million a year out of ku like he had actually done something to deserve that kind of contract. His 2008 Bulls team was a walking fluke. Nothing statistacally about that team was great. And for those that actually watched their games know what I am talking about. That team got EVERY possible bounce that season. They got lucky more than any team I can even recall. They were a decent MAC team, which is not saying much because the MAC hasnt been very good for a little while now. For example, his 2008 team scored 30.3 pts a game. But gave up 28.2pts a game. How did they win?? Well that is because they were +20 on turnovers. +20!! They fell on 26 fumbles and recovered fumbles at a rate of 66.67% Thats freak. There is nothing that is more 50/50 than a fumble, if anything the fumbling team has the advantage cause they ussually can fall back on the ball as any NE fan is aware of as much as your team has put the ball on the ground the last 2 years. But Gill's team got 2/3rds of of the balls his opponents fumbled that year. It was a fluke season that was the only winning season he ever had.

 

Point blank, Gill was a mistake hire, he desearved to get fired and he is rich because ku game him a stupid contract.

 

I might say it more gently, but I essentially agree with Fro daddy. Gill seems like a wonderful man, but he has not been a good hire and his teams don't play well. I would add, they do have some talent on this team. I would also add it is hard to tell by how they play as a team. Even when we played well, we blew it. Other times, we just looked like we did not belong on the field. It was not good.

[Notre Dame Joe]

You make some good points fro, but Gill did vastly improve Buffalo...look at their record after they moved up from I-AA, they won 12 games in 7 years.

 

I just think this a really bad precedent being set here for 2 years. Unless there are other issues every coach going into a troubled program deserves at least 4 years to recruit a team and see how they do, and Gill was recruiting fairly well all things considered. Take the 4 close games they had with Tech, ISU, Baylor and Mizzou and pretend for a moment they had found a way to win 2 of them. How much different is that team? Not that much...heck they even rolled with OU for a half.

 

let me first say this, I am not saying Gill can not coach. I am just saying he was over his head in the big12. He did a nice job at Buffalo and I think he can and will again do a nice job at a mid major type school. I just dont think he was ready for the 'big time'.

 

Also, I am not for cutting coaches after two years. However there are times when frankly I dont think there is a bit of difference between doing it after year 2 or 3. When there is no growth in a program you have to cut bait. You can choose to make a move now or wait another year and fall another year behind. I frankly dont think it would have mattered if ku kept him for 5 more years. I would have been five more years of 2-5 wins. Maybe that still happens, but i think there is no doubt it would have under Gill. ku was not losing closely and this was not the wildcat team Snyder took over. That was the worst program in D-1 by a long shot. So bad that even with everything he has done after all these years they are still 100+ games under .500 all time. (474-612-41) KU is no power house, but you can be compititive and fight to make bowls. But as you implied in those "close" games, if ku had won, he would not have been fired. However, looking closer at those games will only add fuel to the fire than led to him being fired.

 

#1 he lost by 28 pts on avg in conference this year even with nearly 1/2 of their games be closer.

 

#2 Mizzou 10-24. Its ku's superbowl. With that said, Franklin threw three straight balls to ku defenders on some REALLY bad throws. Those ints lead to ku's 10 pts. (one returned for a TD, the other lead to a drive that lost yrds but they made a FG). Mu really played pretty poorly, and extreamly poor for an entire half. With that said ku still blew a 7 pt halftime lead and lost by 14 pts. Any decent team would have run MU off the field in the first half. But i was never worried. Why you might ask...well because ku ended with 130 yrds of offence and nearly 50 of that came on their last drive. They could do nothing. NO matter how bad Mizzou played they were going to win.

 

#3 Texas Tech 34-45. Ku roared out to a 20 pt lead. only to have TT score 45 of the next 52 pts in the game. KU added a late TD with a couple of mins left to get it within 2 scores at the final. BTW TT is 2-7 in conference

 

#4 Baylor. 30-31. Baylor is a good team, and possible has the best player in all of college football. KU was primed to shock the world with a big upset. Ku lead 24-3 in the 4th qtr and Baylors only pts had come on a kick at the end of the first half. It was then that with just under 13 mins left in the game that Baylor scored 3 tds to get to OT. Those TD drives were: 5 plays, 89 yrds 1:07, 6 plays, 98 yrds, 1:53 & 3 plays, 80 yrds, 0:35. Ku played their best game of the year and let Baylor go for 267 yards in 14 plays in just 3:35 mins. BTW this remains Baylors only road win for the year.

 

#5 ISU 10-13. Just an overall ugly game. But they were able to keep it close. Nothing really negative about this besides its a loss. Jack Trice can be a tricky place to play and ISU was an up and down team.

 

He didnt really help himself. Even when teams over looked them (Baylor), when teams played really poorly (Mizzou), when they jumped out to huge leads against bad teams (Texas Tech) & when they found themselves in an somewhat even match-up (ISU) they lost every time. Add that to getting completly wiped off the field by 40+ pts four times this year and showing little to no progression and even could be argued regression from last year and you get fired. If they had kept it close. If they had been compititive in games i think he is still there. But he wasnt, so he isnt.

 

Agreed. The jump was too much too soon. I think he is a fine coach and can succeed right now in the MAC, WAC, or Mountain West. Conference USA is a little stronger overall. I have that title game on dvd and you're right. it was back to back fumble returns for a TD but they still won by several scores. I just feel like the chemistry is wrong. Those kids played hard at Buffalo for him....

 

If i remember correctly the Bulls had like 4 scoring drives that were under 30 yrds. They had those returns and were giving the ball right outside or in scoring postion another 4 times. You would have to check because its been years, but its just one of the games that you see and dont really forget. (I guess I could always search a boxscore also. LOL) Anyway, IMHO GIll came in a tried to change alot of things; including taking players phones away a few days before games and keeping them until after games. Not allowing contact with girlfriends, getting rid of all individualilty for the players and playing ultra nice (cuss jars). Alot of these players were with a gruff, mean old bastard of a coach and now they had a church choir leader. They had someone who was demanding but treated them like men, now they have someone telling them what to do like they are young children and holding their hands. I am sure that effected the older players. As for the younger players, he played alot of them and out of position at that. Some obviously liked Turner, some chose KU cause they had no other options. It seemed like 1/2 the team really went all out for him and 1/2 went through the motions. But agian, that all comes down on the coach.

 

I watched that game too to see a good team from Indiana. But I'd have wound up paying a bunch into that jar.