I hope Turner or another QB gets a long hard look this offseason.

[H2h]

I agree Hanc and i admit that I oversimplified it. But as you are a coach, when the other team blows assignments, you expect your team to make them pay for it dont you? I'm not saying they weren't good plays by Taylor, just that they are plays he should be expected to make when the opportunity is right there. And he did make them, so credit to him, I just didn't see it as carrying the team on his back as another poster suggested. Thats all.

[HANC]

No, I am not trying to get the award for most posts in this thread I just don't think Taylor is as bad as some do. I can't understand that only after 2 years, along with the progress he has made, people can't see the upside. He is just a sophomore.

 

The other thing I can't grasp is that for the most part, the Tmart supporters can acknowledge that he has a lot of things to improve, but the Tmart "haters" can't acknowledge the good things he does.

[HANC]

I agree Hanc and i admit that I oversimplified it. But as you are a coach, when the other team blows assignments, you expect your team to make them pay for it dont you? I'm not saying they weren't good plays by Taylor, just that they are plays he should be expected to make when the opportunity is right there. And he did make them, so credit to him, I just didn't see it as carrying the team on his back as another poster suggested. Thats all.

 

Fair enough... very good post !!!! Can't disagree with it at all ! Welcome to the board. I am usually the most "unconfrontational" guy on the board, this just has me fired up a bit.

 

Good debate... you win round 1....ha

[mnhusker]

I did not read all the posts but I would like to see a #2 QB get some quality snaps simply so they gain what I think is important experience. Do I expect Martrinez to lose the starting role, I doubt it, but I would like him to know that he has a strong backup pushing him and supporting him.

[H2h]

Ha thanks man, long-long-long time lurker. And i used to be far more anti-martinez than i currently am. He didn't cost us a game this year, except maybe Wisconsin but I don't think our defense was gonna keep us competitive anyway.

[Haspula]

Devin Fuller or Tommy Armstrong? They both look pretty good

[HANC]

Devin Fuller or Tommy Armstrong? They both look pretty good

 

 

obviously, I am in the Tmart camp....but, I am tremendously excited to see both of these guys (c'mon Fuller, pull the trigger).... Carnes can play too !! I like Taylor, but I am ALL FOR another guy coming in and winning the job. If all 3 of these guys get here or stay here AND you have Taylor........ then QB depth shouldn't be an issue...

 

Sorry, didn't answer your question...

[HuskerShark]

What I don't get is why people are coming down on Taylor... He and Rex were 2 of the most consistent players on the team, along with Fonzo and LaVonte. If you're going to gripe about something or someone, gripe about someone who actually played bad.

[Blackshirt39]

Im just gonna chime because I feel like it. Many of you know my feelings regarding Taylor last off season. So I thought I would give my take on Taylor this season.

 

Taylor DID not lose us any games this year. He limited his mistakes had more pocket presence, had considerably less turnovers, and proved with his wacky throwing motion he can be an alright passer.

 

To you people that said Taylor didnt win us any games despite being 9-4. Does anybody remember the Ohio State game???? Oh how forgetful you are all. He took the team on his back in 2nd half and led them to a victory. Remember the Northwestern game when our defense couldnt stop a nose bleed. He almost did it again rallying the team from 2 TDs down to get within a FG. He had almost 400 yards of offense that game.

 

He put up decent numbers against Washington and Fresno when those teams were giving us fits and we had a terrible time putting those teams away. Our backup wouldnt have gotten it done. To say Taylor didnt win us any games this year is the most arrogant thing a "hater"(just for you, bshirt) could say.

 

Am I gonna sit here and say that Taylor will be a heisman contender, All American, all conference type of player, No. He is the best we got right now and he isnt doing anything to change that.

 

Happy offseason!

 

huskerscott just said that Taylor should remain the starter. I believe we can now close this thread.

 

I know Im crazy. Last off season I said I wanted to see leadership, better decision making, and more awareness. I saw it this year. So I will keep my mouth shut.

 

Im gonna put some BBQ sauce on my crow so it taste better.

 

 

but the bottom line is TM is a run first qb, i thought a qb's main function was being a capable passer 1st, game manager 2nd and scrambler 3rd....TM doesn't know how to scramble, only run the zone read......

 

To bad Frazier, Crouch & Frost's main function wasn't being a capable passer 1st. No wonder we could never win with those guys.

 

Ha ha wow! The difference is when they ran, they ran for open field or broke the tackle getting to it. You can talk about O-Lines all day but Taylor doesn't possess near the instincts those three men did.

[Warrior10]

Warrior I understand I'm not going to change your opinion on Big 10 defenses, but after seeing South Carolina, where does that defense stack up in the big 10 in your eyes?

Sorry about just now getting back to ya, but I would put South Carolina in the top tear of the Big 10 if not the top. Don't get me wrong, they have their weaknesses as we exposed in the first half. But as far as an overall defense they would pry be at the top, not just in the Big 10 but in the country.

[Joe_5700]

Taylor did not lose the game for us... Had Abdullah not fumbled and Jeffry not caught that bomb at the end of the second quarter, it would have been a different game. You cannot go into the red zone TWICE against a good team like SC and come away empty handed. TWICE! We should have gone up 20-9 and it didn't happen. Instead SC takes a 16-13 lead. That's demoralizing...Our O-line also looked HORRIBLE in pass protection. Credit SC's D-line though. They were beasts. The better team won pure and simple. We need better line play to beat better teams. Games are won in the trenches... Have we all forgotten this?

 

 

He didn't win the game for NU either.

 

 

Look, go watch many of the other bowl games yesterday. Lots of teams suffered turnovers. Lots of teams faced "adversity."

 

Several of them fought through, fought back, won.

 

NU showed again that when the going gets rough, well, it will just get rougher. There is a trend there that is unmistakable.

 

I have watched all of the games. Our O-line was out classed by a superior D-line. Add in 2 turnovers and the odds are definately not in your favor. The end was painful to watch as Martinez dropped back with pitiful pass protection. He is just not good when he is forced to pass, yet we kept dialing up those plays. We are not going to get that magical QB who overcomes horrible offensive line play. The only one on the team who does overcome the terrible play is Rex Burkhead. The last 2 QBs we had on NC teams were not much better at passing than Martinez and they had stellar lines to back them up. Who on our roster at QB would have won the game for us?

[Husker_in_Tarheel_land]

I think the major thing with T-Mart is the fact that his fundamentals are not there. The guy is a pure athlete (would make a good receiver, corner, safety). Even his harshest critics can't deny that. However T-Mart is completely lacking in the fundamentals he needs to be a great QB in any system. As has been pointed out his throwing mechanic is the worst I've ever seen in a starting QB on nearly any level outside pop-warner football. His pocket awareness is sub-par and his ability to read a defense has improved but is still not to a level that is expected of a top 25 starting D1 QB.

 

He is fast north south but has no ability to shrug off tackles or move east/west to elude defenders. On the plus side Taylor is improving, as has been pointed out he has a lot to learn about being a QB. His numbers are what they are because of his pure athletic talent against less athletic teams. He is the type of person that at the high school level would be a coaches dream to cultivate. The problem with D1 FBS football is you can't really use the starting QB position to cultivate that kind of raw talent and expect to win big games against talented teams. Sure against less talented FCS schools your pure athletic ability can win the day but not against solid FBS schools (I don't count Ohio St. and Penn St. this year to be solid FBS teams).

 

No T-mart is not the biggest problem on this team. The biggest problem this team has is the basic fundamentals (penalties, blocking assignments in pass protection, reading offenses/defenses), and controlling the emotional aspects of the game (penalties, giving up in the face of adversity). So T-mart becomes a clear target because he is one guy that fans can clearly point to as an example of the teams lack of proper fundamentals. He's not the only one. The entire teams lacks it with a few notable exceptions.

 

This teams problems are not about talent imho (we have plenty of it), it all comes down to coaching. Bo can come up with a good game plan and that's great for the first quarter. However in every game we lost this year our team lost because the other team had players that were obviously better coached and the teams coach during the game simply learned our initial game plan and out coached Bo and Co after the half.

[Joe_5700]

I don't think Martinez is "the problem" for one reason - we haven't heard the complaints about his leadership skills or "character flaws" like last season. The big losses this year? Against elite mobile QBs. The inexcusable loss to NW? Against a mobile QB. And Shaw? decently mobile.

 

If NU could contain those QBs just decently, the losses to MU and UW probably aren't blowouts, NU probably beats NW, and possibly beats SCAR. And that's possibly still with those ugly mistakes against NW and Scar.

 

I've said before I don't think NU can win big with this style of offense, but even so, they could be 11-2 with two closer losses if the QB contain was better, in spite of the offense.

100% agree.

[Enhance]

 

Fair enough. But just make sure to credit both T-Magic and the WR corps next season if his completion percentage continues to rise. Because although I see and understand your obvious point about QB's needing to put balls consistently on target, having WR's that flat drop catches on key drives is equally devastating.

 

 

Agreed. I think the WRs don't trust where T-Mart will locate the ball and it means they are thinking "where is this ball gonna be" instead of just knowing it will be on target. So, even when the ball is on the numbers, so to speak, they are all mentally bollixed up and they drop the ball.

 

 

I think we can all agree Kenny Bell is a gamer with good hands and has made some extraordinary catches, and even he had a long series of the dropsies at one point this season too.

That or it's a straight up communication error. Watching Martinez throw that interception, it looked like Martinez threw outside and Abdullah sat about five yards away from the sideline. Either Abdullah was supposed to come back or it was an errant throw, and the throw seemed too off target that a communication error seems the more likely issue.

 

However, if the WR's really wonder where the ball is going to be, all I have to say is this. You have a route to run, and you know when Martinez is supposed to throw it and when you're supposed to catch it. Stick to the route and the plan. If the ball is off target, that's on Martinez. If you straight up drop a pass, regardless of where you were when it hit your hands, that's on you.

[lo country]

Luck would not succeed in our offense. Neither will Martinez. Not a knock on him, but on our OC. Look at schools who are successful. They run a type/scheme of O suited to their personnel. We do not. Martinez is not a drop back passer. He does not set his feet, step into the throw or have pocket presence, BUT Beck insists on having him throw from the pocket behind an oline that is inconsistent at best. IMHO, Martinez would be better suited to roll out or play action passes to freeze the D.

 

Martinez can not scramble. Another reason to have him roll out. If the routes are shut, tuck it and run. This leads to another problem. Say what you will, Martinez is a fast guy, but IMHO, no real threat to teams when they stack the box. He does not have that lower your head tough runner mentality. He does not juke or make cuts and has limited vision. On some options or zone reads he does very well as he has an amazing first step. Miss him and he is gone.

 

Beck needs to quit pulling a Wats and make us a run first ie RB/FB power team with play action and roll out passes our bread and butter. The deep routes are there, but not as a staple do to O line play. Give Martinez designed runs/draws etc..... Time and time again announcers have pointed out his issues with the zone read. Beck needs to trash it.

 

We would truly look better if receivers caught the friggin ball, the O line would block consistently and Beck would pull his head out of his a$$ and call plays that fit our guys. Martinez is not RG3, Luck, Price,Drob/Shaw etc....He has his strengths and weaknesses, but Beck calls a game to both. Beck sets the kid up to fail. If Beck continues to call crap, we will get crap.

 

We also need a dedicated QB coach with the experience in the O Beck wants (with the kids he has). Teach Martinez how to make reds,run with his shoulders down and squared up and work on his ability to run in the open field.