Jesus and abortion

[Sub-Husker]

That's extremely helpful. Maybe it is best that you don't congregate with other like minded individuals. On secend thought, I now think you made the correct decision to quit attending church. You are correct, our beliefs and religions are nothing alike. Good luck with yours.

 

I respect people who have religious beliefs, and strive to live them.

 

There is only one place in the Holy Bible where Jesus says "Go and do likewise."

 

I strive to live up to the ideals that He has set, and support others that do likewise.

 

In my opinion the Republican Party Platform is contrary to the teachings of Jesus, as is our foreign policy.

[JJ Husker]

 

My point is that everyone should recognize that there are good examples and bad examples within every religion. To fixate on only the bad and then base your actions on them does not do anyone any good. As an example, I am Catholic. Should I quit going to church simply because of well reported problems of some wayward priests? I don't think so. I think anyones religious journey must be a lot more personal than that. Plus it is hard in today's environment to overcome all the anti-Christian, anti-religion sentiment. For me it is a sign of some weakness or lack of understanding for a person to attribute their lack of church attendance to the bad behavior or actions of others. If you choose to not attend a certain church, do it because you don't agree with what the church teaches or believes. Don't do it because some other people don't get it. I understand that there are some very high profile cases of people doing wrong in the name of a religion. What doesn't get reported often is all of the good people and all of the good things they do.

 

I understand what you're getting at. I don't go to church as often as I should and if I were to be asked what my religion is I would probably say Presbyterian or Methodist. I believe in Jesus, I have faith in a life after this.

 

I just see so much hypocrisy from the Christianity and from so many other religions that it just baffles me. If people aren't religious, let them be apathetic or let them be diest or what have you. Their choice on non-religiosity is the very same choice that people make to be religious. Yet I very rarely see cases of apathetic people forcing their athiest views upon the religious.

 

Abortion is a prime example of this. And I'm going to get a lot of flak for this but it's okay. The basis for which a woman [or a couple] chooses to get an abortion is an individual choice separate from all other choices. It could be based off religion [which in the case the woman probably wouldn't get an abortion]. It could be based off financial standing [wether they have the ability to provide for a child or not]. It could be based off numerous circumstances that no one but the woman with the child can understand.

 

So who are we as religious folks or non-religious folks to deem the circumstances for which a woman gets an abortion to be petty, to be not worth risking the life a child. Hell, who are we to define wether it is a child or not?

 

I'll throw this in here so that no body gets all radical on me by saying that I'm basically advocating for women to go out, have as much unprotected sex as they want, and then just go to the abortion clinic to abort their baby: I find the idea of abortion to a certain extent morally wrong. I think that it is okay if it is done right away. If a woman knows she's pregnant for about 5 months and then all of a sudden decides to get an abortion, I have problems with that; there are better alternatives if you are that late into your pregnancy. However, like I said earlier, the choice is the woman's or the couples's choice alone and only they understand the circumstances behind the decision. So if a person I knew decided to get an abortion late into their pregnancy, I would have a problem with their decision, but not a problem with the people because I could not possibly understand the gravity of the circumstances behind their decision.

 

I don't have any problem with your point of view. I am not advocating any law against abortion. People sometimes get confused within the many layers of the issue. 1-My church is against abortion in all cases. I don't necessarily fully share that sentiment. 2- I am basically against abortion but I would make some exceptions. Solving some personal financial crisis or correcting some irresponsible behavior do not qualify for me. I think there needs to be some pretty extreme circumstances or severe health dangers before a person decides to end another life. And I do believe life begins at conception. I have been present for sonograms and I know quite a bit about science. If those multiplying cells are not interfered with, they will produce a life and that life will have a soul. When it acquires that soul I am not exactly sure but neither are all the scientists in the world. 3- My political view is that this should not be a political issue. Who am I or who is anyone else to tell people what they should or shouldn't do when it does not affect me or other citizens? But, I do draw the line on the other side as well. Don't tell me I have to be for abortion and don't use my tax dollars or my government to provide those abortions. The one thing I think I know is that God, in his infinite wisdom, will do the right thing regardless of what we here on earth determine. He is the ultimate judge of our behavior. Who am I or anyone else to think we know better.

 

If a person doesn't share the same belief structure I have, fine. I will respect that up to the point where they begin attacking me for what I believe. When dealing with those folks, I like to do a little worst case scenario example. If they're right (no God) and I'm wrong, we suffer the same fate. When we die the lights simply go out and we never even find out if we were right or wrong for all those years. We end up in the same boat. But, if I'm right (there is a God and he is paying attention to our actions) and they're wrong, well it could be a pretty ugly eternity for some folks. I find it quite comical that the non-believer, atheist types in the bunch, claim to be tolerant but, with their actions words, they prove they have absolutely no tolerance for people of faith. Seems to be just another case of the pot calling the kettle names.

[Ratt Mhule]

 

My point is that everyone should recognize that there are good examples and bad examples within every religion. To fixate on only the bad and then base your actions on them does not do anyone any good. As an example, I am Catholic. Should I quit going to church simply because of well reported problems of some wayward priests? I don't think so. I think anyones religious journey must be a lot more personal than that. Plus it is hard in today's environment to overcome all the anti-Christian, anti-religion sentiment. For me it is a sign of some weakness or lack of understanding for a person to attribute their lack of church attendance to the bad behavior or actions of others. If you choose to not attend a certain church, do it because you don't agree with what the church teaches or believes. Don't do it because some other people don't get it. I understand that there are some very high profile cases of people doing wrong in the name of a religion. What doesn't get reported often is all of the good people and all of the good things they do.

 

I understand what you're getting at. I don't go to church as often as I should and if I were to be asked what my religion is I would probably say Presbyterian or Methodist. I believe in Jesus, I have faith in a life after this.

 

I just see so much hypocrisy from the Christianity and from so many other religions that it just baffles me. If people aren't religious, let them be apathetic or let them be diest or what have you. Their choice on non-religiosity is the very same choice that people make to be religious. Yet I very rarely see cases of apathetic people forcing their athiest views upon the religious.

 

Abortion is a prime example of this. And I'm going to get a lot of flak for this but it's okay. The basis for which a woman [or a couple] chooses to get an abortion is an individual choice separate from all other choices. It could be based off religion [which in the case the woman probably wouldn't get an abortion]. It could be based off financial standing [wether they have the ability to provide for a child or not]. It could be based off numerous circumstances that no one but the woman with the child can understand.

 

So who are we as religious folks or non-religious folks to deem the circumstances for which a woman gets an abortion to be petty, to be not worth risking the life a child. Hell, who are we to define wether it is a child or not?

 

I'll throw this in here so that no body gets all radical on me by saying that I'm basically advocating for women to go out, have as much unprotected sex as they want, and then just go to the abortion clinic to abort their baby: I find the idea of abortion to a certain extent morally wrong. I think that it is okay if it is done right away. If a woman knows she's pregnant for about 5 months and then all of a sudden decides to get an abortion, I have problems with that; there are better alternatives if you are that late into your pregnancy. However, like I said earlier, the choice is the woman's or the couples's choice alone and only they understand the circumstances behind the decision. So if a person I knew decided to get an abortion late into their pregnancy, I would have a problem with their decision, but not a problem with the people because I could not possibly understand the gravity of the circumstances behind their decision.

 

I don't have any problem with your point of view. I am not advocating any law against abortion. People sometimes get confused within the many layers of the issue. 1-My church is against abortion in all cases. I don't necessarily fully share that sentiment. 2- I am basically against abortion but I would make some exceptions. Solving some personal financial crisis or correcting some irresponsible behavior do not qualify for me. I think there needs to be some pretty extreme circumstances or severe health dangers before a person decides to end another life. And I do believe life begins at conception. I have been present for sonograms and I know quite a bit about science. If those multiplying cells are not interfered with, they will produce a life and that life will have a soul. When it acquires that soul I am not exactly sure but neither are all the scientists in the world. 3- My political view is that this should not be a political issue. Who am I or who is anyone else to tell people what they should or shouldn't do when it does not affect me or other citizens? But, I do draw the line on the other side as well. Don't tell me I have to be for abortion and don't use my tax dollars or my government to provide those abortions. The one thing I think I know is that God, in his infinite wisdom, will do the right thing regardless of what we here on earth determine. He is the ultimate judge of our behavior. Who am I or anyone else to think we know better.

 

If a person doesn't share the same belief structure I have, fine. I will respect that up to the point where they begin attacking me for what I believe. When dealing with those folks, I like to do a little worst case scenario example. If they're right (no God) and I'm wrong, we suffer the same fate. When we die the lights simply go out and we never even find out if we were right or wrong for all those years. We end up in the same boat. But, if I'm right (there is a God and he is paying attention to our actions) and they're wrong, well it could be a pretty ugly eternity for some folks. I find it quite comical that the non-believer, atheist types in the bunch, claim to be tolerant but, with their actions words, they prove they have absolutely no tolerance for people of faith. Seems to be just another case of the pot calling the kettle names.

 

Que the Pascal's Wager argument. Was just waiting for this to happen.

 

And I disagree with the part right below that. I have had many discussions about my faith with many on this board and they are very tolerable of my faith. Husker X is a soft atheist meaning he doesn't really know, but doesn't think there is a God. Have had some nice conversations with him. Bennychico's wife is Catholic so he has to be tolerable of her faith, its part of the contract Knapplc was a Christian, but now atheist. From what I've read from him, he has no problem with the church or people of faith. And most of the others Dude, Walksalone, etc. don't care as long as your not shoving it down their throat. So you will find people here that can tolerate your faith, but just don't believe the same thing and want to have a friendly debate.

 

You cannot get upset about it. I did the first thread I started about my faith and I thought some of these guys were the biggest jerks ever. The more I talked to them, I realized they were not attacking me, just testing my faith, making me think a little. No harm in that. I agree that what the guy said about aborting Jesus is wrong, but those are the people who you have to ignore and what you said is wrong too. If you want to have a friendly religion debate, talk to the guys I mentioned.

[MLB 51]

And Jesus said unto them. Smoke 'em if you got 'em. Oops, basic training flashback

[It'sNotAFakeID]

And God said to Abraham, I'm sorry I could not here you, could you speak into the microphone.

[bennychico11]

I disagree, just about every law comes from someone's strong belief in the good of the people. Whether your God is my God or the Wicca's god, your core beliefs are usually what drives your actions and thus makes our laws.

 

You're right...the strong belief in the good of the PEOPLE...not the good of what is written in a book. Do we stop at your god? Is it just the Christian teachings we make into laws? How about Sharia law? How many people would throw a fit if Sharia laws were pushed into our government? What about if I create a religion, write a religious text, and say that "because my religious teachings say this....we should make it into law."

 

The government should never make laws based off of a religious ideology.

 

I agree with this the way you worded it. Within our system it is virtually impossible to make law based solely on religious ideology. Our laws come from the ideology of our people and their representatives. Surely you don't propose that we the people ignore our ideology, be it religious or otherwise? What kind of laws would we have if those laws were not rooted in our ideology? I shudder to think how it would even be possible.

 

Yes, yes I am proposing that. By "ideology" I am meaning the doctrine myth/belief of a religion. Understand that we should get the basis of our laws from an understanding of reality and not an assertion of authority from a book. We can live definitely in a society governed without beliefs rooted in rules from a deity.

[bennychico11]

Ah, another religion discussion on Huskerboard. The only thing this thread is missing to make it just like all the others is Husker X, Landlord and myself.

 

I've had many talks with Benny and X about religion, but Ive realized it does no good. They will not budge and I will not budge. I like those guys though!

 

Benny, you get married yet? Hows married life? And to keep this on track with religion, does your wife/fiance still try and convert you to Catholic?

 

Edit: And as soon as I post this, I look to see who is reading and I see The Dude. Its not a huskerboard religion thread without him saying something about a magical sky fairy! I kid, I kid. Now go catch a pass!

 

What up Po! Married and livin' the good life. Well...although losing my job a few months back, as good as I can. But I've got a great, supportive wife. Regarding her trying to convert me....she really never has tried to. We were married in the Catholic church just because it was important to her. But since then, we know where each other stand on the issue of religion and just live with it. I go to mass with her from time to time when she asks. I'm interested to see what happens when we have kids. Although, (this might surprise you), I'm wanting my kids to experience religion for themselves and let them make they're own decisions when they are older. I just hope they inherit my rational thinking skills

Hope you're doing well!

[bennychico11]

I don't have any problem with your point of view. I am not advocating any law against abortion. People sometimes get confused within the many layers of the issue. 1-My church is against abortion in all cases. I don't necessarily fully share that sentiment.

 

I find this interesting with most people. If you disagree with your particular religious organization on important issues...why continue to go? I know, I know, because the worship of Christ is the most important part. But who said you have to choose a church in order to correctly believe?

 

I have been present for sonograms and I know quite a bit about science. If those multiplying cells are not interfered with, they will produce a life and that life will have a soul.

ummm, you're going to have to do a little bit more "scientific research" in order to convince anyone that such a thing as a soul exists

 

When it acquires that soul I am not exactly sure but neither are all the scientists in the world.

again, please don't use a scientific claim on this. No real scientist claims a verifiable existence of what you call a soul.

 

 

3- My political view is that this should not be a political issue. Who am I or who is anyone else to tell people what they should or shouldn't do when it does not affect me or other citizens? But, I do draw the line on the other side as well. Don't tell me I have to be for abortion and don't use my tax dollars or my government to provide those abortions.

 

Tax dollars don't go towards abortions

 

If a person doesn't share the same belief structure I have, fine. I will respect that up to the point where they begin attacking me for what I believe. When dealing with those folks, I like to do a little worst case scenario example. If they're right (no God) and I'm wrong, we suffer the same fate. When we die the lights simply go out and we never even find out if we were right or wrong for all those years. We end up in the same boat. But, if I'm right (there is a God and he is paying attention to our actions) and they're wrong, well it could be a pretty ugly eternity for some folks.

 

Pascal's wager. Unfortunately it fails on all accounts.

[bennychico11]

Que the Pascal's Wager argument. Was just waiting for this to happen.

 

Dang, I really need to start reading the rest of the thread before I respond

 

Bennychico's wife is Catholic so he has to be tolerable of her faith, its part of the contract

Extremely tolerable...and supportive. It's important to her and it makes her feel good to go to church each week. So why wouldn't I want her to be happy? Personal beliefs are important to everyone, no matter what my opinion on each of them.

 

So you will find people here that can tolerate your faith, but just don't believe the same thing and want to have a friendly debate.

Most atheists I know are the same. It's just when it comes to actually affecting how we live that we have a problem with it. And unfortunately, atheists are the minority and a lot of laws in this country are pushed through my the religious (see "Christian") groups. That's our issue. When it comes to defining who can get married, how science should be taught, etc....that's when we have issues.

[bennychico11]

And God said to Abraham, I'm sorry I could not here you, could you speak into the microphone.

 

hahah, was that a Simpson's episode? I remember that one from something.

[The Dude]

So many things going on in this thread. I'll just throw out my thoughts on a few of the things be discussed here.

 

As for abortion, I think it's a barbaric form of birth control, but I think outlawing it outright is a bad idea. I think things like the morning after pill and further advancements in birth control will phase out the need for abortion as time passes. It's not something I put a lot of thought into, or very passionate about, because it's something I'll probably never have to deal with personally.

 

As for the afterlife, remember what it was like before you were born? Is there any rational reason to think death would be any different than that?

 

As for religion dwindling in America, I think it's encouraging to see America starting to catch up with the rest of the civilized world.

[Sub-Husker]

As for the afterlife, remember what it was like before you were born? Is there any rational reason to think death would be any different than that?

 

I don't remember what what I had for dinner two nights ago, but I have high expectations for tonight's dinner.

[husker_99]

And God said to Abraham, I'm sorry I could not here you, could you speak into the microphone.

 

hahah, was that a Simpson's episode? I remember that one from something.

 

Nope Family Guy. Stewie said it when Brian asked him to say something when they were burying his mom.

[JJ Husker]

Benny- If you're really proposing that people should ignore any part themselves that makes them who they are, to help guide the laws and policies they want to live with, well, good luck with that. That is the same as me asking you to vote as if you had Christian interests. It just doesn't work that way no matter how badly you wish it could.

 

I was not attempting to claim there is any scientific evidence of a soul. I was simply stating my belief. The only reason I mentioned the soul is because some religions, such as Judaism, try to decree when the body acquires a soul and thus it is relevant to abortion.

 

You might want to research your claim that no tax dollars go towards abortions. Or has the government quit providing funding to Planned Parenthood? I'm sure you are aware they terminate more pregnancies, by far, than any other entity in the US. I'm not gonna say they don't provide some other valuable services but those pale in comparison to what would appear to be their main mission of ending life.

[redblooded]

Did anyone here claim that the Bible was written or dictated by Jesus? Your non-point doesn't explain dick. If wire coathangers hadn't advanced to plastic, maybe your mother would've done us all a big favor.

....as a mod, I'm going to have to warn you against personal attacks against other people. that being said, there are both pro-abortion and anti-abortion stories/rules in the Bible. It's a huge book of contradictions. When it comes to passing laws in our country, I ask everyone to look at the reasons for their point of view. If they're religious based...if you have to say "god tells us (fill in the blank)"... I think you have no right to push those views into laws. Whether it be abortion, same-sex marriage, etc.

 

Fine. Are you going to also warn redblooded for advocating for the abortion of Jesus and basically waging a personal attack on all Christians? What's good for the goose......

And BTW, that wasn't a personal attack. I am the one against abortion in this discussion and he is the one apparently for it. How dare I suggest he being willing to suffer the consequences of what he proposes.

 

I have dealt with this issue in the context it was presented. I can't help it if people jump to conclusions and make assumptions about what laws others may or may not push. And, as far as I know, I have all the same rights you or anyone else does and I can be for or against any law I see fit, for any reason I see fit. If it happens to be a religion based belief, I guess other people simply have to deal with that. I've never understood the position that simply because a person does not have a religion to base a belief on, why that makes their position somehow more valid. I think you have no right to say others have no right.

 

LOLx2, Once because I said Jesus neither wrote nor dictated the bible and that basically nullified the original post's bait and second for taking mine.

 

Yeah Aborting Jesus would have only saved everyone that died in the Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Salem witch trials, the Jews in WW2 and countless other people in catholic and protestant wars alike their lives. But yes, please warn me on a message board for making a joke about aborting the cause of it all. (I'd die a thousand times over, now not just in the womb, to not have that suffering plague the world)

 

That's Jesus y'all lets celebrate him in some man made institution that wants our money every sunday so we can pretend he takes a bow for us being good as long as we continue carrying on that hatred of all other religions that aren't "right." Then with our taxes we can fund the largest military in the world to blow them up to expedite our expelling them from "heaven".

 

Marry is the greatest trap artist in the history of the world... not only did she get some moron to marry her before she gave birth to her "Immaculate conception" but she got him to be okay with it and convinced millions upon millions of morons thousands of years later to not only go along with it but that he was the son of (and) god himself. If that broad tried to get away with that now she'd be on Springer and/or Maury, and rightfully so, yet those are the 2000 year old people you're worshiping.

 

Good luck with that.

 

(ps thanks for learning how to press the "quote" button. That only took what, three months?).