Trayvon Martin and "Stand Your Ground" in FL

[Mavric]

And if Martin had taken a more reasonable amount of time to walk slightly over half a mile instead of whatever else he was doing he would have been inside before Zimmerman ever came by.

And if the rape victim didn't go out to the bar that night, she wouldn't have been raped.

Factually accurate.

 

Why is it OK for people to continually state speculative things that one party could have done to avoid the incident but not OK to state speculative things that the other party could have done to avoid the same situation?

[Junior]

And if Martin had taken a more reasonable amount of time to walk slightly over half a mile instead of whatever else he was doing he would have been inside before Zimmerman ever came by.

And if the rape victim didn't go out to the bar that night, she wouldn't have been raped.

Factually accurate.

 

Why is it OK for people to continually state speculative things that one party could have done to avoid the incident but not OK to state speculative things that the other party could have done to avoid the same situation?

 

There's a substantial difference between "the dude walking home from 7-11 should have walked faster and then the guy with the loaded gun, who he didn't know existed, would not have decided to follow him" and "the guy carrying a loaded gun, who saw a 'suspicious' kid walking should not have got out of his truck to follow the 'suspicious' kid". If you can't see that difference, then there's no point in debating.

[Junior]

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/07/25/juror_b29_mandy_zimmerman_juror_tells_abc_that_george_zimmerman_got_away.html

 

Despite the prosecution's claim the Zimmerman profiled Martin because he was black, Maddy said the case was never about race to her, although she didn't want to speak for her fellow jurors. But her feelings about Zimmerman's actions are clear. "George Zimmerman got away with murder, but you can't get away from God. And at the end of the day, he's going to have a lot of questions and answers he has to deal with," Maddy said. "[but] the law couldn't prove it."

[husker_99]

And if Martin had taken a more reasonable amount of time to walk slightly over half a mile instead of whatever else he was doing he would have been inside before Zimmerman ever came by.

And if the rape victim didn't go out to the bar that night, she wouldn't have been raped.

Factually accurate.

 

Why is it OK for people to continually state speculative things that one party could have done to avoid the incident but not OK to state speculative things that the other party could have done to avoid the same situation?

 

There's a substantial difference between "the dude walking home from 7-11 should have walked faster and then the guy with the loaded gun, who he didn't know existed, would not have decided to follow him" and "the guy carrying a loaded gun, who saw a 'suspicious' kid walking should not have got out of his truck to follow the 'suspicious' kid". If you can't see that difference, then there's no point in debating.

The point that you are missing or just ignoring is that same area had break ins. Martin went the same route that a burglar would go. then he went to the sidewalk. Then he noticed Zimmerman's truck and walked up to it and then started running. Who in the f#*k does that? Only someone who is running from something that he shouldn't be doing or in possession of. Sorry but if your area has been known to have break ins the last thing you should be doing is acting like you fixing to rob a house. You are putting too much emphasis on the gun.

[sd'sker]

The point that you are missing or just ignoring is that same area had break ins. Martin went the same route that a burglar would go. then he went to the sidewalk. Then he noticed Zimmerman's truck and walked up to it and then started running. Who in the f#*k does that? Only someone who is running from something that he shouldn't be doing or in possession of. Sorry but if your area has been known to have break ins the last thing you should be doing is acting like you fixing to rob a house. You are putting too much emphasis on the gun.

someone who approaches a vehicle with an armed man just lurking in a neighborhood.

[husker_99]

The point that you are missing or just ignoring is that same area had break ins. Martin went the same route that a burglar would go. then he went to the sidewalk. Then he noticed Zimmerman's truck and walked up to it and then started running. Who in the f#*k does that? Only someone who is running from something that he shouldn't be doing or in possession of. Sorry but if your area has been known to have break ins the last thing you should be doing is acting like you fixing to rob a house. You are putting too much emphasis on the gun.

someone who approaches a vehicle with an armed man just lurking in a neighborhood.

so are you saying people with guns inherently use them for bad intentions?

[sd'sker]

The point that you are missing or just ignoring is that same area had break ins. Martin went the same route that a burglar would go. then he went to the sidewalk. Then he noticed Zimmerman's truck and walked up to it and then started running. Who in the f#*k does that? Only someone who is running from something that he shouldn't be doing or in possession of. Sorry but if your area has been known to have break ins the last thing you should be doing is acting like you fixing to rob a house. You are putting too much emphasis on the gun.

someone who approaches a vehicle with an armed man just lurking in a neighborhood.

so are you saying people with guns inherently use them for bad intentions?

[husker_99]

The point that you are missing or just ignoring is that same area had break ins. Martin went the same route that a burglar would go. then he went to the sidewalk. Then he noticed Zimmerman's truck and walked up to it and then started running. Who in the f#*k does that? Only someone who is running from something that he shouldn't be doing or in possession of. Sorry but if your area has been known to have break ins the last thing you should be doing is acting like you fixing to rob a house. You are putting too much emphasis on the gun.

someone who approaches a vehicle with an armed man just lurking in a neighborhood.

so are you saying people with guns inherently use them for bad intentions?

you always bring up that Zimmerman had a gun. Zimmerman having a gun doesn't mean that's the sole focus to where that's what you have made it out to be.

[sd'sker]

you always bring up that Zimmerman had a gun. Zimmerman having a gun doesn't mean that's the sole focus to where that's what you have made it out to be.

i think it is the combo of having a gun *and* lurking in a neighborhood that would make me wary of a person.

 

and when someone is shot to death, the fact that someone had a gun is *kind of* important, but i am unsure how i have made that the sole focus. i think the real sole focus here is how you are compelled to so vehemently defend zimmerman. the fact remains, he was safe with a gun in his vehicle. he called the police and that should have been the end of it. for whatever reason, zimmerman exercised poor judgment and something bad happened. no one should be surprised something bad happened. zimmerman wa suspicious of martin, so why approach him? whatever happened that night, whether zimmerman did commit murder or was justified in his actions, it should have never gotten there. that is the point.

[walksalone]

Say that GZ doesn't have the gun, and this kid beats him to death...

 

It's a story you might hear about for a couple days, then is forgotten...

 

If the shooter isn't white/hispanic and the vicitm isn't black, then it's inconsequential...

[sd'sker]

Say that GZ doesn't have the gun, and this kid beats him to death...

 

It's a story you might hear about for a couple days, then is forgotten...

 

If the shooter isn't white/hispanic and the vicitm isn't black, then it's inconsequential...

this is true, but gz may not have been so embolden to leave his truck without a gun. i am not saying that this is an argument against conceal and carry, just that gz could have avoided this situation. i am also not saying that martin was innocent, again, just that gz could have avoided all this in the first place.

[carlfense]

The point that you are missing or just ignoring is that same area had break ins. Martin went the same route that a burglar would go. then he went to the sidewalk. Then he noticed Zimmerman's truck and walked up to it and then started running. Who in the f#*k does that? Only someone who is running from something that he shouldn't be doing or in possession of. Sorry but if your area has been known to have break ins the last thing you should be doing is acting like you fixing to rob a house. You are putting too much emphasis on the gun.

What?

[carlfense]

The point that you are missing or just ignoring is that same area had break ins. Martin went the same route that a burglar would go. then he went to the sidewalk. Then he noticed Zimmerman's truck and walked up to it and then started running. Who in the f#*k does that? Only someone who is running from something that he shouldn't be doing or in possession of. Sorry but if your area has been known to have break ins the last thing you should be doing is acting like you fixing to rob a house. You are putting too much emphasis on the gun.

someone who approaches a vehicle with an armed man just lurking in a neighborhood.

Right. Trayvon Martin was investigating an armed man who was following teenagers in the area. Clearly doing his civic duty.

 

Or is that a one way street as well?

[Junior]

The point that you are missing or just ignoring is that same area had break ins. Martin went the same route that a burglar would go. then he went to the sidewalk. Then he noticed Zimmerman's truck and walked up to it and then started running. Who in the f#*k does that? Only someone who is running from something that he shouldn't be doing or in possession of. Sorry but if your area has been known to have break ins the last thing you should be doing is acting like you fixing to rob a house. You are putting too much emphasis on the gun.

someone who approaches a vehicle with an armed man just lurking in a neighborhood.

Right. Trayvon Martin was investigating an armed man who was following teenagers in the area. Clearly doing his civic duty.

 

Or is that a one way street as well?

 

It's true. A white looking guy sitting in his car watching underage boys walking around? Martin wanted to be sure he wasn't a child molester, then Zimmerman chased him and fearing for his life, he had no choice but to fight back. Unfortunately for Martin, Zimmerman had a gun and killed him.

 

Two can play the ridiculous speculation game.

[Saunders]

Martin was walking through the neighborhood = not illegal.

 

Martin stopped and approached a truck = not illegal

 

Zimmerman got out of truck with a gun and followed Martin = not illegal but stupid

 

Martin fled but then came back to confront Zimmerman = Not illegal but stupid

 

Some how , Martin ended up on top of Zimmerman bashing his head into the ground. THAT is illegal unless Zimmerman some how attacked Martin first. I have never seen evidence that Zimmerman did.

 

Zimmerman pulls trigger and kills Martin. If Zimmerman didn't attack first, he has every right to defend himself from someone who attacked him.

 

If there is proof Zimmerman attacked first, then the guy should be in prison. I haven't seen it.

 

Not illegal under Florida's Stand Your Ground law. If Martin "felt threatened" by Zimmerman, Martin has a right to defend himself. Zimmerman following Martin is enough for Martin to "feel threatened" by Zimmerman under Florida law.

Even though this thread is a clusterf*** of opinions, arguments, and counter-arguments, I'll jump in on this. (FTR, the jury was right by law, and Zimmerman is a dumbass).

 

FYI, this is incorrect, and something incorrectly perpetuated by the media (shocker). I'm an active CCL holder in FL, and have also taken a few defensive shooting classes. It's also spelled out in this book, (which is a must read for CCL holders in FL) which is recommend by instructors and LEO's across the state.

 

SYG means that if you are confronted by an attacker and your life is endangered, you are not required to flee if you have the means to defend yourself. This differs from other states (IA is different IIRC) where you have the duty to retreat. It's an extension of the castle doctrine (which 46 of 50 states have). Example: someone breaks into your house, and you have the opportunity to run out the back door. In IA (I believe) you're required to flee if you can. In FL, you are not.

 

Simply being followed doesn't count. Only if Zimmerman threatened Martin (brandished a weapon, charged at him, etc...) would SYG apply.